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Poll

Who is in our best 22?

1 - Jack Silvagni
[ 7 ] (1.6%)
2 - Lachie Cowan
[ 13 ] (3%)
3 - Jesse Motlop
[ 11 ] (2.5%)
4 - Oliver Hollands
[ 13 ] (3%)
5 - Adam Cerra
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
6 - Zac Williams
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
7 - Jagga Smith
[ 15 ] (3.4%)
8 - Lachie Fogarty
[ 13 ] (3%)
9 - Patrick Cripps
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
10 - Harry McKay
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
11 - Mitch McGovern
[ 19 ] (4.3%)
12 - Tom De Koning
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
13 - Blake Acres
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
14 - Orazio Fantasia
[ 1 ] (0.2%)
15 - Sam Docherty
[ 15 ] (3.4%)
16 - Ben Camporeale
[ 0 ] (0%)
17 - Brodie Kemp
[ 16 ] (3.6%)
18 - Sam Walsh
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
19 - Corey Durdin
[ 2 ] (0.5%)
20 - Elijah Hollands
[ 19 ] (4.3%)
21 - Lucas Camporeale
[ 0 ] (0%)
22 - Harry O'Farrell
[ 0 ] (0%)
23 - Jacob Weitering
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
24 - Nick Newman
[ 19 ] (4.3%)
25 - Jaxon Binns
[ 1 ] (0.2%)
26 - Nick Haynes
[ 14 ] (3.2%)
27 - Marc Pittonet
[ 0 ] (0%)
28 - Harry Charleson
[ 0 ] (0%)
29 - George Hewitt
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
30 - Charlie Curnow
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
31 - Harry Lemmey
[ 0 ] (0%)
33 - Lewis Young
[ 4 ] (0.9%)
34 - Rob Monahan
[ 0 ] (0%)
35 - Billy Wilson
[ 0 ] (0%)
36 - Cooper Lord
[ 4 ] (0.9%)
37 - Jordan Boyd
[ 12 ] (2.7%)
39 - Alex Cincotta
[ 4 ] (0.9%)
40 - Hudson O'Keeffe
[ 0 ] (0%)
41 - Matt Duffy
[ 1 ] (0.2%)
42 - Adam Saad
[ 20 ] (4.6%)
43 - Ashton Moir
[ 5 ] (1.1%)
46 - Matthew Cottrell
[ 11 ] (2.5%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Topic: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season (Read 18682 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #60 –
Nowhere to hide or nurse injury prone players through a season anymore, there are too many opposition eyes on the tactical behaviour of opponents.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #61 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

Agree he will start forward, thats the only spot where we have been able to get a return out of him, he is a player who needs to be looked after imo as his biggest problem is being able to stay on the park and remain injury free.
If he is wandering around half back or in the middle where he has to cover more ground and do more running then I could only see him aggravating his achilles and being back on the injury list.

Not sure that holds up EB.  Like almost all forwards these days, Zac is continually running the length of the ground and he is definitely spending time in the midfield in the match sims.  He is also involved in plenty of chains of possessions from halfback.

 You can’t really “hide” an injury prone player in the modern game.  Zac will either get through the season doing what’s expected of every other player … or he won’t 🤞
I think his history speaks for itself, he is injury prone and came to us with the expectation that we would see him play as a midfielder .
That hasnt happened and match sims, preseason games don't prove anything as we need to see how he stands up in the regular season week to week vs real opposition and until he does that I consider him unreliable.
We played Charlie Curnow injured for weeks so I don't agree with the theory the modern game doesn't allow that to happen..

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #62 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: DJC – on


Not sure that holds up EB.  Like almost all forwards these days, Zac is continually running the length of the ground and he is definitely spending time in the midfield in the match sims.  He is also involved in plenty of chains of possessions from halfback.

 You can’t really “hide” an injury prone player in the modern game.  Zac will either get through the season doing what’s expected of every other player … or he won’t 🤞
I think his history speaks for itself, he is injury prone and came to us with the expectation that we would see him play as a midfielder .
That hasnt happened and match sims, preseason games don't prove anything as we need to see how he stands up in the regular season week to week vs real opposition and until he does that I consider him unreliable.
We played Charlie Curnow injured for weeks so I don't agree with the theory the modern game doesn't allow that to happen..

There's no doubt that Zac's reliability is questionable and 19 games last season was a good effort for him, particularly after he was caught up in our hamstring epidemic.  However, there's absolutely no basis for suggesting that Zac was hidden away on the half forward flank last season and he won't be again this season.  Yes, many players carry injuries into games but you can't protect a "fragile" player by exempting them from team defence and excusing them from transition running.  The opposition would exploit that weakness.

Have a look at Zac's 2024 highlights and note how many times he is involved in the play in our defensive half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj_5PU7FDsA
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #63 –
Quote from: DJC – on
However, there's absolutely no basis for suggesting that Zac was hidden away on the half forward flank last season and he won't be again this season.
Agreed, for me it's self-evident, if you try to hide somebody it would shoot the team in the foot as badly as someone being injured early in the game.

Once one team had exposed such a situation, they would all have it on the whiteboard from that day forward.

I suppose sometimes in fan discussions there can also be a confusion of inconsistency and deficiency, I see that whether through injury or not Zac Williams has at times been inconsistent, but he isn't incapable or deficient.

But we also know now he had a lot going on in his life, I can't blame him and I see him as more than capable, maybe he actually needs more credit given what he has been dealing with.

Pre-trade period the talk about Zac or Jack Martin wasn't really about capability but about carrying too many of a type, well that issue is resolved. There is some hold over from that debate that perhaps colours fan perceptions.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #64 –
We had to hide him up forward because his efforts playing in defence were substandard and the club didn't have the stones to drop a big contract player at the time.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #65 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
We had to hide him up forward because his efforts playing in defence were substandard and the club didn't have the stones to drop a big contract player at the time.
By that logic we derive the MC was happy to then deliberately weaken the F50 pushing more hurt onto the already injured Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay, etc., etc..

Seems a tad rubbery.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #66 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Professer E – on
We had to hide him up forward because his efforts playing in defence were substandard and the club didn't have the stones to drop a big contract player at the time.
By that logic we derive the MC was happy to then deliberately weaken the F50 pushing more hurt onto the already injured Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay, etc., etc..

Seems a tad rubbery.
His body was rubbery and with that generous contract the club tried every position to try and get a return out of him as well as finding a position where he had more chance of staying on the park.
Forward is that position and Im happy to say he offers more than our other small spasmodic forwards and Id have more faith in him kicking 30 plus goals a season than I would the others.

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #67 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
His body was rubbery and with that generous contract the club tried every position to try and get a return out of him as well as finding a position where he had more chance of staying on the park.
Not a chance, it would make him a pariah with coaches and team-mates, maybe stuff like that went on before Cook replaced Liddle and before Sayers replaced LoGiudice, but not in 2024.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #68 –
If Charlie is not available for round one I would go with Harry Lemmey over Pittonett. I think he is a better forward option and is capable in the ruck, especially around the ground with his marking which is not a Pittonett strength.

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #69 –
Quote from: Blue Moon – on
If Charlie is not available for round one I would go with Harry Lemmey over Pittonett. I think he is a better forward option and is capable in the ruck, especially around the ground with his marking which is not a Pittonett strength.
I agree, time to release the Lem
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #70 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: Blue Moon – on
If Charlie is not available for round one I would go with Harry Lemmey over Pittonett. I think he is a better forward option and is capable in the ruck, especially around the ground with his marking which is not a Pittonett strength.
I agree, time to release the Lem
I would have signed Liam McMahon and gone with him in round 1, Lemmey would be my next choice.

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #71 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I agree, time to release the Lem
I would have signed Liam McMahon and gone with him in round 1, Lemmey would be my next choice.
We need small fwds.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #72 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I agree, time to release the Lem
I would have signed Liam McMahon and gone with him in round 1, Lemmey would be my next choice.

Based on his form in the match sims, McMahon wouldn’t be much more effective than a witch’s hat.  There’s no way that he could have been considered for a gig in Round 1.

Lemmey has made the most of his apprenticeship and has been winning contests against our first choice KPDs.

The only reservation I have about Lemmey is that he and Harry McKay are very similar in how they play.  I guess that, provided they can keep out of each other’s way, it’s double trouble for the opposition defence.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #73 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

I would have signed Liam McMahon and gone with him in round 1, Lemmey would be my next choice.
We need small fwds.
   I think we have enough, it's more about the quality than quantity IMHO.
We lack a tall specialist forward as well as a tall specialist backman imo and seem intent on pinch hitting with players like Kemp and JSOS.
FrankieE  to me is no improvement in quality and his CV is thin and that's being kind after getting the Khyber from two clubs and having 30 odd games of mediocre results at best.To me that SPP should have been a tall and Frank should have been earning his chance for the mid season draft by impressing in the VFL.
McMahon kicked goals in the twos and was our best VFL player and I can't understand why he wasn't given a shot given his skill and talent .
After showing Owies the door this move is sure to make supporters question what the recruiters are doing especially if Owies
has success at WC..

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2025 - Part 1 - Pre-season

Reply #74 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

I would have signed Liam McMahon and gone with him in round 1, Lemmey would be my next choice.

Based on his form in the match sims, McMahon wouldn’t be much more effective than a witch’s hat.  There’s no way that he could have been considered for a gig in Round 1.

Lemmey has made the most of his apprenticeship and has been winning contests against our first choice KPDs.

The only reservation I have about Lemmey is that he and Harry McKay are very similar in how they play.  I guess that, provided they can keep out of each other’s way, it’s double trouble for the opposition defence.

Witches hat or not, we cant pick a witches hat and if it's anything close to the injuries of last year we will need too.