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Topic: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG (Read 13658 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #30 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
You'll be looking for a while in the 2s to find replacements. If your criteria is two arms, two legs and a pulse, you should be right.

These guys are no where near their seasonal averages and no idea if they will get there. Time to unearth some talent.

Carrol, Binns, Moir, Wilson, Lemmey play them.
Agree on giving all of them a go when they warrant it except Binns (unless he can re invent him self as a small fwd).
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #31 –
Time to send a message. 
Moir for Evans
Carroll for McGovern
Wilson for Williams if he's hurt
They won't drop Doc for the Peter Mac game but either him and/or Acres for Wilson/Binns...who isn't a great kick either but the two aforementioned senior players couldn't deliver a letter into a box right now.

I know they're kids and it's waving the white flag but the season is gone at 4 zip, pretty much gone already IMO. Would inject a bit of speed, excitement and a bit of zip.

DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #32 –
We have been ahead in all three games this year and on top but our third quarters have been insipid and our last quarters have been full of panic as we try to wrest back control. Subsequently we have lost all faith in our structures, team plans and team mates as we simply bang the ball forward and hope someone will do something brilliant to save us while retreating defensively into our shells at the same time.
During the half time break we should be telling our players that it is time to bring out the one wood and back our midfield to do what they did in 2023. If you are two or three goals up at half time and you have a burst of six or seven goals at the start of the third quarter the game will be over. Back ourselves and back our strengths and stop worrying about our opponents. Just win the game.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #33 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
You'll be looking for a while in the 2s to find replacements. If your criteria is two arms, two legs and a pulse, you should be right.

These guys are no where near their seasonal averages and no idea if they will get there. Time to unearth some talent.

Carrol, Binns, Moir, Wilson, Lemmey play them.

Totally agree re Carrol, Moir and Wilson. I'd add Will White.

We've got a number of players, on present form, who not only don't deserve a game, but are a liability which invites in one of our problems - too much being left to too few.

Gov, Acres, Evans, Fog and Doc are issues.
Whether we like it or not I doubt the MC will drop Doc ...who I much prefer on the forward line.
Evans, who I'm sure is a great kid, is a liability up forward.
Gov has lost all dare, flare and that sometimes mercurial judgement, is just making up numbers... giving us very little drive off half back.
This is hard to write for a player I really like, Acres... but his form is sh1te and he's a liability.
We have to play one hard defensive forward which has been Fog for a while, but his form is ordinary.

In regard to positional experiments, the club got it so right, thus far, with JSOS down back and Kempy up forward, but the other experiment which I liked to begin with, I now believe aint so good - Ollie down back... we've lost so much of his creative, line breaking run on the wing. I believe Carroll should be given his role down back... the kid has got serious abilities, and Ollie replace Acres.

I would definitely bring in Moir for Evans. It would be scientifically impossible for Moir to do less that what Evans has offered in terms of offensive danger up forward - Moir is a very real threat to opposition back lines as he will hit the scoreboard, in some unorthodox, freakish way. For mine, Curnow and Moir in the same forward line brings a couple of unpredictables to our forward line - a real headache for opposition defences.

In the not to distant future we'll have Elijah back (to replace Doc?) and the Campo twins will be introduced... these kids are potentially something very special. Both have high footy IQs.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #34 –
Folks seem keen to give Moir a run, so maybe let it happen.
It's one of those shock tactics that sometimes work.
In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he kicked three or four.
But don't crucify the kid if it doesn't come off.

I think the problem may be in the games that follow, and whether he can produce consistently.
Consistency and fitness is probably what they're trying to develop wih him, and that may be better for his development if he does that in the VFL
But 'desperate times' and all that.

Personally I wouldn't change it around too much this week.
There's a bit of talk Harry will be ready to go.
Carroll (if fit) and White may be considered.
But I reckon the group has shown a bit more cohesion with each passing week.
There's been a gradual improvement in some players, we just need the others to catch up.

This is a defining match and a few players (if they survive selection) are probably playing for their spots.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #35 –
I'm not sure how you guys think that dropping players who don't deserve a game, and bringing in players who don't deserve a game will do anything but fracture the playing group, and then instill fear and self preservation in everyone attempting to play footy.

To me there is no greater way to destroy morale, and collaboration and divide a playing group than drop players who have been worthy citizens, in favour of players not putting their hand up for a match.  You think its bad now?  Wait till you see what happens when blokes attempting to play their role are dropped for blokes that arent.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #36 –
I think there is a real concern on peaking too early as it's a long season, Voss mentioned this after the Richmond loss.
It looks like we are easing (very)slowly into form.
Yeah, a lot are down on form. Just hope they start to find their form soon.
Also, we don't want to bring in the kids too early.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #37 –
Peaking too early?  How about forgot the season's started?
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #38 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I'm not sure how you guys think that dropping players who don't deserve a game, and bringing in players who don't deserve a game will do anything but fracture the playing group, and then instill fear and self preservation in everyone attempting to play footy.

To me there is no greater way to destroy morale, and collaboration and divide a playing group than drop players who have been worthy citizens, in favour of players not putting their hand up for a match.  You think its bad now?  Wait till you see what happens when blokes attempting to play their role are dropped for blokes that arent.


Voss said in one of his pressers, I think after the Richmond game, "we dont isolate, we dont blame".
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I'm not sure how you guys think that dropping players who don't deserve a game, and bringing in players who don't deserve a game will do anything but fracture the playing group, and then instill fear and self preservation in everyone attempting to play footy.

To me there is no greater way to destroy morale, and collaboration and divide a playing group than drop players who have been worthy citizens, in favour of players not putting their hand up for a match.  You think its bad now?  Wait till you see what happens when blokes attempting to play their role are dropped for blokes that arent.



Nothing erodes morale like losing, 3 Leos - failure to even get near potential. Morale is further eroded when blokes playing well are let down by out of form blokes or not up to it (Evans). You don't think 'carrying' non-hackers erodes morale and confidence? Gifting blokes games based on reputation and good past citizenry is a recipe for... well... what we're seeing.

Matty Carroll, Will White, Ashton Moir, Lucas Camporeale, Billy Wilson and Ben Camporeale (in his brief appearance at VFL level) have all shown in pre-season, and early VFL/AFL games form which warrants reward. Some blokes will not shine at VFL level but show enough in potential and raw talent to be given a gig at senior level. Risky? Yep. Winners take risks.

Persisting with non-hackers will shatter the place, as evidenced by our second half capitulations so far this year - remember, we've led at half time in all our 3 games this year, then when real heat comes in the second half, we fold, badly. That's what happens when you've got 14-16 blokes trying to do their job of 22 - they have to do their jobs and cover for the non-hackers.

The MC must exercise ruthless objectivity when selecting our side, at the moment, much like last year, they're rewarding those who are delivering repeated ordinary poor performances with senior selection based on, what? Reputation? Hope? When you reward ordinary, guess what you get more of!!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #40 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I'm not sure how you guys think that dropping players who don't deserve a game, and bringing in players who don't deserve a game will do anything but fracture the playing group, and then instill fear and self preservation in everyone attempting to play footy.

To me there is no greater way to destroy morale, and collaboration and divide a playing group than drop players who have been worthy citizens, in favour of players not putting their hand up for a match.  You think its bad now?  Wait till you see what happens when blokes attempting to play their role are dropped for blokes that arent.



Nothing erodes morale like losing, 3 Leos - failure to even get near potential. Morale is further eroded when blokes playing well are let down by out of form blokes or not up to it (Evans). You don't think 'carrying' non-hackers erodes morale and confidence? Gifting blokes games based on reputation and good past citizenry is a recipe for... well... what we're seeing.

Matty Carroll, Will White, Ashton Moir, Lucas Camporeale, Billy Wilson and Ben Camporeale (in his brief appearance at VFL level) have all shown in pre-season, and early VFL/AFL games form which warrants reward. Some blokes will not shine at VFL level but show enough in potential and raw talent to be given a gig at senior level. Risky? Yep. Winners take risks.

Persisting with non-hackers will shatter the place, as evidenced by our second half capitulations so far this year - remember, we've led at half time in all our 3 games this year, then when real heat comes in the second half, we fold, badly. That's what happens when you've got 14-16 blokes trying to do their job of 22 - they have to do their jobs and cover for the non-hackers.

The MC must exercise ruthless objectivity when selecting our side, at the moment, much like last year, they're rewarding those who are delivering repeated ordinary poor performances with senior selection based on, what? Reputation? Hope? When you reward ordinary, guess what you get more of!!
we are talking about hackers though for downhill skiers and players not up to 4 quarters.

Winning is fickle.  Its a bounce a kick, a missed target.

Lewis Young probably had 2 efforts that cost us the game, but he was a worthy contributor so do you drop him for those efforts or hang onto him for playing his role?

Charlie is giving us half a game at the minute and he's gassed but we are poorer without him than with him and swapping him for anyone is fanciful.

I'm seeing players working and not reaping game day reward for effort by dumb luck.

I'm seeing calls to replace them for replacements sake.  We've been here before.  Players don't stuff up on purpose but pressure is something our team doesn't like and IMHO dropping players will only build it rather than release it.  Nothing changes things like winning but we will win in spite of personell change not because of it at the moment which is an important distinction.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #41 –
Evans...  not sure what to say about him, but he spotted up a 50 metre kick which got Kemp a goal.  Not easy he's no Eddie betts but I bet that he has something endearing.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #42 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Evans...  not sure what to say about him, but he spotted up a 50 metre kick which got Kemp a goal.  Not easy he's no Eddie betts but I bet that he has something endearing.

....... and he got totally burnt by Motlop when he was in a perfect position for a goal.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #43 –
I think selection will tell a story re Evans.
For most he'd be an obvious 'out'
It may not be notceable to us mere mortals, (it's kind of eluding me) but if he's been given a specific task and has performed it well, got into the right positions, he'll keep his spot.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood at MCG

Reply #44 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I think selection will tell a story re Evans.
For most he'd be an obvious 'out'
It may not be notceable to us mere mortals, (it's kind of eluding me) but if he's been given a specific task and has performed it well, got into the right positions, he'll keep his spot.
Selection i(getting in right) is a tough gig. Yes I know that's their job, but obviously a balancing act ATM. Kids that are not ready vs out of form established players. For me, I'd make a couple of changes. Out Acres, Doc or Evans. In 2 of Moir, White or L. Camporale.