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Re: Well said

Reply #1
If you read that article carefully it's a mess of rudderless dribble. If they spent more than 5 minutes putting that together, they were clearly interrupted.

I have no issue with changes, but if anyone can come up with King and Montagna's preferred / suggested 22 after reading that, they deserve a medal. 

Re: Well said

Reply #2
So you're in favour of keeping things as they are,  not changing anything around?   Interesting...

Re: Well said

Reply #3
So you're in favour of keeping things as they are,  not changing anything around?   Interesting...

I'm in favour of the right thought process leading to the right action. If changes will make things worse, then why bother ? I'm not saying they will, but I cannot see how an approach of "hey what does this button do?" is going to help us. The right action may simply be allowing the players and coaches to rectify the issues.

John Kennedy Sr has, through no fault of his own, ushered in a very questionable policy that doing something is better than doing nothing. Except if you have no clue, then the action can make things worse.

Re: Well said

Reply #4
I think one issue is that while there may be some merit in some of the changes they suggest, in a number of cases (Williams) it's returning players to positions they played previously.

The other one is that they obviously haven't see our VFL side in action. ::)

Re: Well said

Reply #5
So you're in favour of keeping things as they are,  not changing anything around?   Interesting...



I'm in favour of the right thought process leading to the right action. If changes will make things worse, then why bother ? I'm not saying they will, but I cannot see how an approach of "hey what does this button do?" is going to help us. The right action may simply be allowing the players and coaches to rectify the issues.

John Kennedy Sr has, through no fault of his own, ushered in a very questionable policy that doing something is better than doing nothing. Except if you have no clue, then the action can make things worse.
That's fine,  but obviously so far this season allowing the coaches to rectify things hasn't been working,    I didn't take everything they said literally,  I read it as just trying something different,  which so far in 25 they really haven't tried to think outside the square, as they believed rightly or wrongly that based on recent history our existing available squad has the skills, gameplan and experience to get it done.    But we all know how that's working out so far.   I'm just not sure that current coaches mc or whoever have enough lateral thinking to make something work.   It's quickly approaching the point where there's nothing to lose and everything to gain from trying something different  -  whatever that is.

Re: Well said

Reply #6
That's fine,  but obviously so far this season allowing the coaches to rectify things hasn't been working,    I didn't take everything they said literally,  I read it as just trying something different,  which so far in 25 they really haven't tried to think outside the square, as they believed rightly or wrongly that based on recent history our existing available squad has the skills, gameplan and experience to get it done.    But we all know how that's working out so far.   I'm just not sure that current coaches mc or whoever have enough lateral thinking to make something work.   It's quickly approaching the point where there's nothing to lose and everything to gain from trying something different  -  whatever that is.

The only principle the MC should be following is to pick the best 22 to win a game of footy. If your starting point is something else (we need to change things up, we need to think laterally etc) you have already committed yourself to a dogma, which then becomes self realizing.

Re: Well said

Reply #7
That's fine,  but obviously so far this season allowing the coaches to rectify things hasn't been working,    I didn't take everything they said literally,  I read it as just trying something different,  which so far in 25 they really haven't tried to think outside the square, as they believed rightly or wrongly that based on recent history our existing available squad has the skills, gameplan and experience to get it done.    But we all know how that's working out so far.   I'm just not sure that current coaches mc or whoever have enough lateral thinking to make something work.   It's quickly approaching the point where there's nothing to lose and everything to gain from trying something different  -  whatever that is.

The only principle the MC should be following is to pick the best 22 to win a game of footy. If your starting point is something else (we need to change things up, we need to think laterally etc) you have already committed yourself to a dogma, which then becomes self realizing.


That's a bit simplistic imo.    Things aren't working atm.   Agreed?    Do we really know what are the issues?   No we don't.   We can only guess based on what we can actually see,  mostly on game day.      For whatever reasons right now,  there seem to be some problems  -  either  it's game plan,  player cohesion,  coach disconnect, lack of confidence,  or a combination,  and it's frustrating the supporter base,  and all they care about is results.   Supporters pay the bills and they want to see success and at the very least things starting to turn for the better.    We've been teased, given undelivered 'promises'  and starved of success for decades.    And we are all experts at what the team should be doing better,   so why aren't they doing it?    Cmon Blues,  Lift!    :)

Re: Well said

Reply #8
That was a complete load of bollocks. Summed up brilliantly by this....

Quote
“Adam Cerra is just a nice player. He’s played over 57 games now for Carlton, polled Brownlow votes in four games and he’s had big coaches votes in four games.

“I’d maybe move him out of the midfield and move him to halfback and become like a Josh Daicos, (because) he’s not really getting the job done.

So he's gone to the trouble to look up not only how many games he's played but how many games his polled votes in (not an easy task, nor something that actually matters) but clearly hasn't watched enough of him to know that his disposal by vote is not a strong point, so distrubuting from halfback is a bad idea.

He also wants to move Walsh to half back.

...and talks about us looking after Cripps.....but....

Who is left in the middle?

If you are picking a team with an unlimited playing list, sure, you can make some of these changes.
But saying this stuff to get a rise out of people without actually looking at if it can be done with personnel available is either designed for clickbait, or is borne out of ignorance. Either way. Credibility zero.

Re: Well said

Reply #9
That's a bit simplistic imo.    Things aren't working atm.   Agreed?    Do we really know what are the issues?   No we don't.   We can only guess based on what we can actually see,  mostly on game day.      For whatever reasons right now,  there seem to be some problems  -  either  it's game plan,  player cohesion,  coach disconnect, lack of confidence,  or a combination,  and it's frustrating the supporter base,  and all they care about is results.   Supporters pay the bills and they want to see success and at the very least things starting to turn for the better.    We've been teased, given undelivered 'promises'  and starved of success for decades.    And we are all experts at what the team should be doing better,   so why aren't they doing it?    Cmon Blues,  Lift!    :)

Yes, but this post is a bit of a reveal. As supporters we can't see behind the scenes. The only thing we have is game day (and even then I'm not sure fans are particularly observant - see the article below). In order to appease fans, the club must be seen to be doing "something", because then the club looks proactive, and satisfies the fans. Never mind a thought process that figures out the best method to move forward, fans must see "something" in order to be appeased. This is precisely the type of thinking that leads clubs into strife. 

And I would suggest some things are working : our ability to restrict opposition scoring, our ability to stay in games, and be in winnable positions late. It's not all doom and gloom. Bear in mind that these positives are present even though we're not performing well, and some players look out of sorts.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2025/03/28/the-unwanted-west-coast-job-that-sent-shivers-down-spines

Re: Well said

Reply #10


The only principle the MC should be following is to pick the best 22 to win a game of footy. If your starting point is something else (we need to change things up, we need to think laterally etc) you have already committed yourself to a dogma, which then becomes self realizing.


That's a bit simplistic imo.    Things aren't working atm.   Agreed?    Do we really know what are the issues?   No we don't.   We can only guess based on what we can actually see,  mostly on game day.      For whatever reasons right now,  there seem to be some problems  -  either  it's game plan,  player cohesion,  coach disconnect, lack of confidence,  or a combination,  and it's frustrating the supporter base,  and all they care about is results.   Supporters pay the bills and they want to see success and at the very least things starting to turn for the better.    We've been teased, given undelivered 'promises'  and starved of success for decades.    And we are all experts at what the team should be doing better,   so why aren't they doing it?    Cmon Blues,  Lift!    :)

No, thats not simplistic.

its a trouble shooting methodology.  When something is not working or not functioning correctly, you need to assess what is wrong, and then using the information and resources at hand, take the appropriate action to fix it.

I.e.  you have a car, that is not firing on all cylinders.

Do you A.  Replace its tyres?  B.  Change is oil?  C.  Do nothing and hope it comes good?  D.  take it to the mechanic to get it sorted? 

All of the above are doing something, even if you choose C, that is something.  Its not inaction.  Depending on the car, C might involve stretching its legs on a freeway, because if its a Diesel, it might need to burn off the Diesel particulates filter, and that will correct the issue.

Thing is, we are seeing coughing and spluttering and people are saying change the spark plugs, when an oil change might be more appropriate (car analogies have their limitations).

When push comes to shove, you could do all 5 of the above actions and only thing you achieve is costing time, and money, and it might simply be that you had a bad batch of fuel and once you top up with new fuel, or even go through the tank, you can do nothing and it would be fine.

Our club doesnt need change, it needs the opposite.  It needs continuity and to work through this mire.  Come game day, there is going to be one forced change through Cowan. 

the rest, need to be done on their merits.  On that game, Moir should go out of the side, but here is the kicker.  Selection isnt solely about game day performance.  is his prep any good?  How is he going at training?  Did he have a bad day at the office?  If you have a bad day at the office do you get demoted?  Or are you allowed to redeem yourself?  You dont go instantly to a performance management plan either, it usually takes a few goes to get there.

We could make no change, and see a dramatic turnaround, or we could bring in 4 players, and perform the same, and eek out a win.  Everyone is down on form, that isnt really debateable, and the only way you turn form is by playing yourself into form.

IMHO, I would consider what Durdin did putting his hand up for selection subject to how the training goes this week.  You don't leave someone like Harry Mckay in the twos for long, unless he needs the pressure release more than anything else, so he might be the other one you bring in particularly with a soft kill coming up against West Coast. It might be what he needs to turn it around.   I would not necessarily be removing Young from the side at this point, but it might be time to if Harry comes back. 

For mine there are two speeds.  Are they up to the level?  We have about 30 players who are capable.  Are they currently performing?  No, the majority of them are not, which is why you cant roll through the changes.  The reasons are wide and varied, but the youngsters are not hitting the ground in a team humming a long, which means they are being placed under increased pressure.  The damage done to their belief, is intangible.  We dont need that.  We need this process to be easier for them, not harder.  That means keep playing the senior bodies.  Their form will turn.  They will get better the longer they play for.  The shame in it, is Moo was one of the ones performing and of course, thats where we cop an injury from, not the crappy end of the team that isnt firing. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Well said

Reply #11
Nathan buckley summed us up well this morning by saying our list is not good enough to play the modern game for 120 minutes. We can compete for a half but then we fall away as we dont have the cattle that are capable of covering the ground at speed when teams apply the pressure.  And opposition teams know it and play us accordingly. In other words we are not good enough. full stop!

We can all think by moving players around changing the coach dropping players etc is the answer but if the list is not capable longterm we are just sugarcoating a turd.  We need major changing to the list to try and catch back up to the leading pack or we will drop further next year.


Re: Well said

Reply #12
I suspect our issues are more around flaky skills and struggling to handle pressure and changes in momentum from the opposition. Although I will say, that phrase "sugarcoating a turd" is a beauty. Big up.

 

Re: Well said

Reply #13
I suspect our issues are more around flaky skills and struggling to handle pressure and changes in momentum from the opposition. Although I will say, that phrase "sugarcoating a turd" is a beauty. Big up.

exactly paul. Unable to execute skills under pressure is generally a symptom of a C-D grade footballers and you cant win a flag with to many of those sorts. Our list is built around contested footballers but we have a major drop off in players that you can rely on to be clean by hand and foot which is critical areas needed to reach the top.

How many years have we said why is our forward entries so bad - skills and decision making under pressure are again traits the better players have in spades.

How many in our list hits targets on a regular basis.

Re: Well said

Reply #14
One of the problems we're facing is we are being judged in the moment.
And that's fair.
The question is..."Is what Carlton are producing at present the best they are capable of?"... and I reckon the answer to that is an emphatic "no"