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Topic: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon (Read 11380 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #120 –
Any thoughts I have on Curnows second efforts are based on the fact I don't think he's  a 100%.

But even partially fit he is more value in the team than out of it.

Two things can be true at once.

Have a look at our small forwards and almost to a man their supposed strength is forward pressure. So if Charlie is lacking in defensive efforts at the moment  there are players there to take up the slack. It hasn't been working to optimum. McKay missing throws extra  pressure on Curnow as Harry's designated minder can be used elsewhere. But add a bit of flair with players like Williams and a more involved Motlop and it can look a whole lot better.

Curnow is not the complete player, but he's still miles away the best forward we have.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #121 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: DJC – on


I don't think Williams was expecting contact at all.  He simply got under a ball that wasn't directed as well as it could have been.  Not difficult under lights and deep in the pocket.

What I saw from Zac on Sunday was footy smarts and a lively performance that produced two goals, two goal assists, eight score involvements, two marks inside 50, three clearances and 336 metres gained.  That's not a bad return from a small/medium forward under any circumstances.  Fly would have loved a similar performance from Jamie Elliott.
That would be a poor game from Jamie Elliott and his opponent would be credited with having him well held. One is a class act who will be All Australian and the other is an inconsistent serial offender when it comes to poor contesting and we need better from a senior player especially when younger players like Matt Carroll are putting their bodies on the line in marking contests and committing to the cause.

Well then, if that was a poor game by Jamie Elliott’s standards, he had an absolute shocker against Melbourne and should be dropped 🙄

Whichever way you spin it, Zac’s first game back in a restructured, almost makeshift forward line was top class and his clearance work and line breaking was a bonus.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #122 –
Elliott and Williams are both good players whose careers have been stuffed by injury. For that reason alone, they've both had underwhelming careers. If Elliott does make AA, it's taken 14 years, so it's not like he's been knocking it out of the park.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #123 –
When he's been in the squad I think Williams has been OK for us, too many fans let his lack of durability cloud their judgement on football issues, but in reality when he's on the park he's generally doing OK. We can't make that claim for some others.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #124 –
Quote from: laj – on
Quote from: blueray – on

All i was saying is we need two players out with currency (as above). One is likely Walsh who has gone backwards and two would be Harry or Curnow but Carlton won't. They'll just let TDK go for peanuts and have another ordinary year. Curnow has no dog in him. He is supremely talented but just does not do enough. Our entries can be poor but i see the leads from our forwards live each week. No wonder the entries are as bad as they are. Hard work beats talent. Just look at Collingwood
I'm not a panic merchant with knee reactions. You're not getting rid of your best players to get them. Charlie has 2 Coleman's, would have been a 3rd last year without the ankle injury and still will kick 50+ this year even without a pre-season. Start giving away your best players and you find yourself going no-where. In the end one has to score to win. Just pure panic.   Like I said, we lead the half time ladder comfortably, so we can play. Things go ok then and we score. Scores are often in the 50s or close to it. What happens in the 2nd half then didn't happen in 2023 and up to round 19 2024 until injuries killed us? Basically the same side. Possibly the game plan? Attitude of the team as a whole? Play the wrong side?

TDK will get us top 8 compo as it stands. We could use that or even split it. Plus Harry Dean and the NGA prospect Ison.
Buddy left Hawthorn, Grundy left Collingwood, Cameron left Giants and all did well. I can argue GWS could have won 2023 and 2024 premierships if not for brain farts. Our two forwards have hit their peak and are shot in my opinion but they still carry a lot of currency to bring in some hungry talent that can make a difference. TDK will leave so this will rule out the club saying goodbye to Harry and Charlie. Walsh is the obvious choice to dangle but the club just won't make those tough calls. I was knee jerk when Ratten was coach. That has long passed and I am just done with excuses year after year.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #125 –
Quote from: LP – on
When he's been in the squad I think Williams has been OK for us, too many fans let his lack of durability cloud their judgement on football issues, but in reality when he's on the park he's generally doing OK. We can't make that claim for some others.

I think that Zac has been more than OK this season.  As a forward, he provides a point of difference with his ability to break the lines, find space, and make good use of the pill. His occasional work as a midfielder is far more productive than when he was tried as a full time mid.  And then there’s his ability to do a role in defence if necessary.

Yes, his lack of durability is an issue but I don’t get the focus on his pay packet, which seems to be growing steadily.  Clubs pay overs for free agents.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #126 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: LP – on
When he's been in the squad I think Williams has been OK for us, too many fans let his lack of durability cloud their judgement on football issues, but in reality when he's on the park he's generally doing OK. We can't make that claim for some others.

I think that Zac has been more than OK this season.  As a forward, he provides a point of difference with his ability to break the lines, find space, and make good use of the pill. His occasional work as a midfielder is far more productive than when he was tried as a full time mid.  And then there’s his ability to do a role in defence if necessary.

Yes, his lack of durability is an issue but I don’t get the focus on his pay packet, which seems to be growing steadily.  Clubs pay overs for free agents.
There is overs and then there is way overs and he is in the latter category.
Seems like a nice bloke and good clubman but as far as providing value for money he hasn't imo, but it's not all his fault. We stupidly recruited him as a midfielder which he isn't and with Achilles issues. Durability aside he also has a history of not being reliable in contesting when called upon to put the body on the line and along with McGovern and the now departed Martin have been busts in terms of free agents who we have acquired on decent money.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #127 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I think that Zac has been more than OK this season.  As a forward, he provides a point of difference with his ability to break the lines, find space, and make good use of the pill. His occasional work as a midfielder is far more productive than when he was tried as a full time mid.  And then there’s his ability to do a role in defence if necessary.

Yes, his lack of durability is an issue but I don’t get the focus on his pay packet, which seems to be growing steadily.  Clubs pay overs for free agents.

What with his injuries plus the club stuffing him around with position (defense, mid, forward) I don't think we've seen the best of Zac. It's a shame, because he's a good player and could've given us a lot more than he has. Hopefully the last part of his time with us, however long that may be, will see him produce consistent high quality performances, which IMO he certainly can.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #128 –
When he plays I don’t really have an issue with Zac but I do have an issue with his lack of availability.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #129 –
If nothing else Williams has some X-factor, we haven't may of that type and it always amuses me when hear of fans wanting to trade away the ones we've got for a chance in the draft.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #130 –
If you want to see why Zac Williams frustrates:

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/Z/Zac_Williams.html

For a player that has been in the system as long as he has, his time on ground percentage is absolutely woeful.  Out of 8 matches this season, he has been subbed off in the first half at least twice, and leaving those two out averages 55% time on ground out of the rest.

Its pretty grim reading for a high profile, high paid recruit.  Reliability didnt come with the contract, but time on ground averages dont lie.


I like to give players the benefit of the doubt. 

By contrast here are Jesse's stats: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jesse_Motlop.html

The time on ground column speaks volumes beteween them  Jesse stays on for 3/4 of the game or there abouts, Williams has only gotten there on a few occasions.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #131 –
As much as he frustrates me with his lack of availability WIlliams possess a football nous and skills that are a point of difference.
He's unique in our side.

That's what's so bloody annoying.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #132 –
I think that we may be overly cautious with Zac and get him off if he cops a knock or feels a twinge that wouldn’t bother other players.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #133 –
Fans want to rage after a loss, and focus on players who have repeat soft tissue injuries, but the type of injury matters and in Williams' case he has suffered soft tissue injuries but mixed in there are some collision related injuries as well.

We can't complain about our players not being in the right place at the right time, then complain about them getting injured in the fray when they are caught in the bottom of a pack or under a contest. We need SFs who are in the hot zone winning the footy, and Williams does get in the right places in the hot zone at the right time.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #134 –
I only point out its a frustration.  Does he break down more or less than the others?  How does he stack up next to his peers?   Who can we logically compare him to?

Its like Jack Martin.  His ability, and capability was fine, but at some point reliability becomes the issue.  Both Gov and Williams suffer from lack of reliability.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson