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Topic: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide (Read 9149 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #60 –
Haven't heard any valid reasons to keep Voss, he was a speculative choice who failed at his first coaching attempt and has had nine years senior coaching as a sample size.
I have seen enough and I'd be changing
more than the just the coach too, we are uncompetitive and embarrassing.

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #61 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Haven't heard any valid reasons to keep Voss, he was a speculative choice who failed at his first coaching attempt and has had nine years senior coaching as a sample size.
I have seen enough and I'd be changing
more than the just the coach too, we are uncompetitive and embarrassing.


The media are pumping up Adam Simpson. Do you remember what they did to him despite having the worst injury list in history?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #62 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Haven't heard any valid reasons to keep Voss, he was a speculative choice who failed at his first coaching attempt and has had nine years senior coaching as a sample size.
I have seen enough and I'd be changing
more than the just the coach too, we are uncompetitive and embarrassing.


The media are pumping up Adam Simpson. Do you remember what they did to him despite having the worst injury list in history?

I wouldn't be going back and recycling old coaches like Simpson and Longmire.
I'd be be looking at Enright or similar and getting a younger more innovative coach who can get us into the modern era plus a new recruiting team and football boss.

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #63 –
Vossy says all the right things, so how come it doesn't translate to results?

The experts seem to agree that our game-plan is restrictive and lacks embracing the modern game. Sure, cherry picking certain KPIs can make it seem all is well at PP; that we're on the right track, 'we just need to do it for longer' as Vossy says - so how come for a very long time do we not do it for longer? Once the opposition bring pressure and change, we fold. Above the shoulders? Yep. Not mentally strong. How come?

Our players present as being vulnerable to high expectation (pressure) and strong persistence come game day - a mentally conditional group. How come? These are not recent issues. This has been an on-going issue for some years now. How come? I do not believe this is indicative of the players as people.

Some ponderances for consideration:

The Board. I'd like Patty Kinnersly to understand that our players are not solely billboards for social issues or her social causes, as important and worthy as they may be. She needs to understand 'warrior energy/positive masculinity' and get in behind those realities and support them, wholeheartedly. The club psychologist also needs to understand this.
Greg Williams. He's failed the football department and the senior coach. The buck stops with him and he should be accountable.

Football Department. Brad Lloyd, this has happened, and been happening on his watch for some time. He's failed.

Vossy. Gee I feel for him. So many mixed messages, especially from above. His players need to become warriors (a vital expression of positive masculinity) when on the field of play. Understanding and embracing this (warrior energy) will strengthen their spirit and mental resolve. Some are warriors naturally, many aren't. Those that aren't need to be taught; to be led. There's way too much 'nice' on our field of play.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #64 –
This business about "the modern game" seems to be the hottest ticket in town. I'd be curious to know what it actually is.

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #65 –
So it's Pat Kinnersley fault.
 

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #66 –
Bloody women!

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #67 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
This business about "the modern game" seems to be the hottest ticket in town. I'd be curious to know what it actually is.

We arent good enough so the reason we arent good enough isnt because we arent good enough, some external factor is imposing an artifical restraint to make us look bad.

Remove the restraint, and all will be rosy.

Same old Carlton arrogance thinking we are or entitled to be, better than we are.

Thing is, its sometimes as simple as, we are not going well (theres enough evidence there to say we arent in good condition) and rather than accepting that, we need to "fix it" because old Carlton knew how to fix things, and in our hubris, we can fix it.

Thing is, game plans are game plans.  There are finite things you can do in tactics.  Everything old will become new again, and right now, the run and gun game style is "modern footy" with scores off intercept and rebound currently being the way to hit the opponent.

Who played like that?  Ratten.

We dont play like this, because our squads outside game is significantly hindered by players being broken down.  All our creative and running types are well down on their best so we have to stick with what our strength is, and try and generate scores that way, because we dont have another mode we can go to.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #68 –
The best they looked last night was in the fight...or standing over a fallen Powell-Pepper.
It would be good if they applied the same intensity to their football.
But at the very least...get a bit more physical and make the opposition look over their shoulders.
Our besty football under Voss has been when we've applied that physical pressure and intensity.
Gang tackles and pressure just seem to have deserted us for long periods in a game.
We still see it from time to time...but only during our increasingly rarer 'purple' patches.

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #69 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
We arent good enough so the reason we arent good enough isnt because we arent good enough, some external factor is imposing an artifical restraint to make us look bad.

Remove the restraint, and all will be rosy.

Same old Carlton arrogance thinking we are or entitled to be, better than we are.

Thing is, its sometimes as simple as, we are not going well (theres enough evidence there to say we arent in good condition) and rather than accepting that, we need to "fix it" because old Carlton knew how to fix things, and in our hubris, we can fix it.

Thing is, game plans are game plans.  There are finite things you can do in tactics.  Everything old will become new again, and right now, the run and gun game style is "modern footy" with scores off intercept and rebound currently being the way to hit the opponent.

Who played like that?  Ratten.

We dont play like this, because our squads outside game is significantly hindered by players being broken down.  All our creative and running types are well down on their best so we have to stick with what our strength is, and try and generate scores that way, because we dont have another mode we can go to.

Also Teague.

So it's a kind of retro revival thing ?

IMO, you play whichever way gives you the best chance of winning regularly. Part of that is list, part is coaching, part is injury etc. If we managed to hit our targets and get more efficient, and more cohesion with players being on the park for longer, our game style would be fine. The idea that Voss doesn't understand "the modern game" or is too stubborn to embrace it, is IMO, nonsense.

There's no doubt that changes in players physical attributes, skills, endurance over time, changes in rules etc., will undoubtedly have a downstream effect to how the game is played. Beyond that, I'm not sure there's such a thing as the "modern game" that sits in opposition to or in conflict with the "outdated" game.

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #70 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on


The media are pumping up Adam Simpson. Do you remember what they did to him despite having the worst injury list in history?

I wouldn't be going back and recycling old coaches like Simpson and Longmire.
I'd be be looking at Enright or similar and getting a younger more innovative coach who can get us into the modern era plus a new recruiting team and football boss.

The thing is EB our list should be at the point where we are putting finishes touches to it and so a proven finals coach like Longmire along with his own selected line coaches/assistants would IMO be the best way to give this current group any chance of success.

Think an untried coach is an option if its determined this list is shot and need to start a new fresh build.

Personally the list and in particular many of our 'best' players are overrated and as Buckley said the level of performance from our A graders drops off way too much when having an average day and this is just how it is hence why i rate them not as A graders and overrated (reckon we only have 2 real A graders in Cripps and Weitering and thats it).

And as we are not exactly blessed with under 25 talent, either new coach option is still going to be tricky and based on our previous records with this stuff its hard to be positive anymore about anything our once great club does.  Having said that one option has to occur as 4 years is enough with this group to confirm Voss is not the man and should never have been appointed over Kingsley. 

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #71 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: PaulP – on
This business about "the modern game" seems to be the hottest ticket in town. I'd be curious to know what it actually is.
We dont play like this, because our squads outside game is significantly hindered by players being broken down.  All our creative and running types are well down on their best so we have to stick with what our strength is, and try and generate scores that way, because we dont have another mode we can go to.

We lost to Richmond in Round 1 with close to full list.  

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #72 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on

We dont play like this, because our squads outside game is significantly hindered by players being broken down.  All our creative and running types are well down on their best so we have to stick with what our strength is, and try and generate scores that way, because we dont have another mode we can go to.

We lost to Richmond in Round 1 with close to full list.  

You have said this a couple of times, but our list isnt close to being in good condition, and I debate how close to full it was, given the team that fielded that day didnt include a two time coleman medallist, and had 2 new players that hadnt played for the club before.  That doesnt sound like full strength to me.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #73 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: shawny – on


We lost to Richmond in Round 1 with close to full list.  

You have said this a couple of times, but our list isnt close to being in good condition, and I debate how close to full it was, given the team that fielded that day didnt include a two time coleman medallist, and had 2 new players that hadnt played for the club before.  That doesnt sound like full strength to me.



2 time coleman medalist - is that the guy who has managed a grand total of ZERO goals in our last 2 games against the 13th and 17th sides on the ladder when the heat was on for us to show some heart ?  oh thats right he is still injured isnt he.

So we missed him in R1 did we against Richmond currently sitting in 16th?

And we played 2 new guys so that's another reason is it?  Did you see Richmond's list that night and how many of their better players were out. Most tipped them for the spoon and we were supposed to come charging back up to top 4 this year? 

I get it you don't want to concede with this list build but there comes a time when you have to be honest enough to call it as it is.

Re: AFL Rd 16 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #74 –
@shawny

I think the drop off is temporary and a product of a list that isnt in good condition. 

You seem to think its at optimum capacity to perform and not performing to that potential. 

There is the variance, its not about condeding or arguing who is right or wrong, but saying it was at full strength is a massive stretch.  Cripps alone is playing within 50% of his top form of last season.  Is he rubbish now?  Or is he simply having an off year?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson