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Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Nothing to do with Taco and deserves its own thread:

Quote from: shawny – on
Police minister interview was very stern in condemning the Far left wing throwing glass shad missiles at police while the far right protesters were congratulated on following the rules. Hmmm arent the right wing aligned with being the violent ones?

The police minister sounded fed up and at breaking point putting up with these twits.

Goverments that refuse to accept any accountability and dont have the brains to do something productive to arrest the slide have turned our once great state into a debt ridden lawless violent crap hole.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #1 –
Been saying it for ages, the joint is lawless.
Youth Crime
Starting filling jails with the perps and their parents when they are minors. The hunt down the organised crime gang members who are "hiring" kids to their dirty work and jail them for a long time.
Parents will start paying attention on where their children are and being, well, parents.
Kids will started thinking about consequences, as will crime.gang members.
Time to get serious, nuffs e farken nuff now.

Protest
Play nice or lose the right.
Track down the glass and rock throwers (left, middle or right) and make them accountable for their actions.

WTF has gone wrong with the general behaviour of society? Its disgusting the things humans do to other humans.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #2 –
I've said this before....
Punishing parents is futile.
Many parents of young offenders have been in jail or are currently in jail.
Many suffer from mental health issues.
They are drug and alcohol dependent.
Many are illiterate.
Some intellectual disability or social inadequacy  is common.
They come from poor socio-economic backgrounds.
They struggle to look after themselves, let alone their kids.

But here's the thing....
For the most part they do love and care about their kids.
They want a better life for them.
They just don't have the means or the ability to provide that.

Educated well off families don't provide a large percentge of kids in detention.
It's the 'circle of crime'.
And the current generation in detention will provide the next generation.
Over the 40 years I spent in the system I've taught both parents and their children
Often the same family names kept appearing.

The other issue is the value of incarceration.
The Juvenile System is in many respects are 'Schools of Crime' as bonds are formed and strategies for offending are shared.

Kids reach a point when they reach about 18 where they choose a path.
Many go on to lead productive lives...the others keep offending and spend much of their life in jail.
Once in the system it's often too late.
There are some offenders who definitely need to be kept in custody.
But there are probably just as many who should never see the inside of a centre.

The answer doesn't lie with locking them all up.
Keeping a kid in custody for a period is a surprisingly expensive strategy.
Money that could be much better spent on pre-offending diversionary programs with many youngsters.





Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #3 –
Dunno Lods, I went to the same schools adjacent to Heidelberg West and Olympic Village as many former recidivists and received the same education, yet the outcome was different.  Some people just keeping making poor choices and I reckon a lot of it comes down to poor parental guidance, but everyone has their pet theory
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #4 –
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-13/criminologists-debunk-youth-crime-crisis-claims/104445432

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-09-25/victoria-crime-statistics-agency-new-stats-highest-number/105814382

Two articles worth a read IMO. On a surface read they seem a little contradictory, but I imagine understanding crime in toto is a fairly complex business.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Dunno Lods, I went to the same schools adjacent to Heidelberg West and Olympic Village as many former recidivists and received the same education, yet the outcome was different.  Some people just keeping making poor choices and I reckon a lot of it comes down to poor parental guidance, but everyone has their pet theory

People are individuals and make both good and poor choices and there is no “one solution” to these or pretty much any other problem.
As to making parents “responsible” for their children’s crimes, where does that stop ?
My son has a hairy arse and he makes his own choices, do you want me to break his legs to limit where and what he does ?
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #6 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Nothing to do with Taco and deserves its own thread:

Quote from: shawny – on
Police minister interview was very stern in condemning the Far left wing throwing glass shad missiles at police while the far right protesters were congratulated on following the rules. Hmmm arent the right wing aligned with being the violent ones?

The police minister sounded fed up and at breaking point putting up with these twits.

Goverments that refuse to accept any accountability and dont have the brains to do something productive to arrest the slide have turned our once great state into a debt ridden lawless violent crap hole.

Shawny, I suspect you may have bought into the HUN puerile and simplistic assumption that it was 'lefties' who threw the rocks. That's called shoehorning events to suit your own political agenda. FA to do with left, right, middle, up down... whateverthefck.

For a far more accurate and relevant assessment of who may do these things, read Principal LODs' insightful contribution above... with an open mind.

I, too, have worked in the system but not for 40 years as Principal LODS did, I only lasted just over a month at Winlaton young female offenders detention centre. These girls were disaffected, disenfranchised (for many of the reasons Principal LODS mentioned) and mostly, also, sexually abused. And generally speaking they fell into three categories, they were either angry, and as a result very violently antisocial ...or totally withdrawn, self-destructive and suicidal... or had a serious mental health issue, or three (schizophrenia/bi-polar/panic disorders/PTSD etc.).

When your solution to youth street violence is to build more prisons, and keep building more prisons, doesn't that tell you that prisons are not the solution for young offenders?

Why did I only last just over a month? Well after listening to the horrors stories of sexual abuse from the girls, in considerable detail -- took a couple of weeks to earn their trust, they knew I really did care -- it was just too much. Broke me/triggered my own PTSD. So I knew I wasn't suited to the job.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #7 –
lol i have my own thread!!

More gang machete action at Luna park. May need to order more bins Jacinta. 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Nothing to do with Taco and deserves its own thread:



Shawny, I suspect you may have bought into the HUN puerile and simplistic assumption that it was 'lefties' who threw the rocks. That's called shoehorning events to suit your own political agenda. FA to do with left, right, middle, up down... whateverthefck


I didnt buy into anything simply quoted what the police minister said in his press conference which was so refreshing to see someone stand up to these lowlifes and call them out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbliCmt0QqA

As others have said enough is enough. The politicians are weak and compulsive liars and the current lot are simply incapable of fixing the mess they caused. The machete bins fiasco says enough of the incompetence of those we elected to run the state (well i didn't but enough did unfortunately) - they focus on topics to win votes and fail to address the important issues. Our state is being overrun with criminals, majority out on bond, no repercussions for violent protesters against the law as well as the effect of letting tens of thousands of immigrants in weekly with too many that don't want to assimilate to our customs and worst part is when they commit a serious crime they is stuff all to deter the next lot from offending. Lack of mental health facilities to monitor and house those who should not be on the street. That poor chef that was stabbed in the city last week for no reason was just sickening.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Dunno Lods, I went to the same schools adjacent to Heidelberg West and Olympic Village as many former recidivists and received the same education, yet the outcome was different.  Some people just keeping making poor choices and I reckon a lot of it comes down to poor parental guidance, but everyone has their pet theory

That's actually a good point Prof.

Why do some kids thrive in the same system while others fail?
There is no doubt parental authority sometimes has little impact, but as I pointed out before that's largely through lack of parental skills. For some, 'parental control' manifests itself through physical abuse. Kids wont respond to that....they'll avoid it by running with their peers and avoiding home.

As to failure...
There's a conversation a teacher in a JJ detention setting once had with a student

Teacher: We all have different things we can be good at.
Student: We're good at crime.
Teacher: No you're not! Good criminals don't get caught.

The fact is these kids have failed at most things. They've even failed at being criminals.
I lost count of the number of kids I've taught who reached the age of 15-16 and were still unable to read.
Failure at school leads them to avoiding a place of failure and finding alternative often anti-social activities.

The kids have failed, but the systems have failed them too.
So there has to be a better way for these kids, something more intensive that gets them early, and works to divert them away from criminal activities, or at least provide them with skills to cope.
It'll cost, but there won't be a lot of difference between the cost of those programs and the cost of locking them up.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #10 –
Why are we all of a sudden turning everything into 'Left' or 'Right' issues.  They aren't.  They are societal ones.  Until language and actions return to reasonableness, this division will continue.  It is well and truly time to stop.  A rally to 'Unite to fight the right'? (as one banner said). Burning police effigy's? Throwing rocks at police? Deliberately organising counter protests? Protest to improve society, not to divide it further.

While the State Government has a lot of work to do on crime, what is the opposition's response?  Their federal leader comes and visits and suggests how unsafe Victoria is (from the Dutton playbook)  What is the Vic opposition's solution?  Until we get some ideas from the opposition, we are stuck with what we have.  Tough on crime isn't a solution - it's a slogan.

In the meantime, whenever a crime is now committed, it is mentioned if the offender was on bail.  Yes, it is an issue, but is it an increasing or decreasing one?  We have to have bail laws - Government writes them, courts apply them.  Police are frustrated particularly at how they are being applied and a reluctance (?) to lock up the repeat offenders.  I have no idea where the solution is.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #11 –
Quote from: dodge – on
Why are we all of a sudden turning everything into 'Left' or 'Right' issues.  They aren't.  They are societal ones.  Until language and actions return to reasonableness, this division will continue.  It is well and truly time to stop.  A rally to 'Unite to fight the right'? (as one banner said). Burning police effigy's? Throwing rocks at police? Deliberately organising counter protests? Protest to improve society, not to divide it further.

While the State Government has a lot of work to do on crime, what is the opposition's response?  Their federal leader comes and visits and suggests how unsafe Victoria is (from the Dutton playbook)  What is the Vic opposition's solution?  Until we get some ideas from the opposition, we are stuck with what we have.  Tough on crime isn't a solution - it's a slogan.

In the meantime, whenever a crime is now committed, it is mentioned if the offender was on bail.  Yes, it is an issue, but is it an increasing or decreasing one?  We have to have bail laws - Government writes them, courts apply them.  Police are frustrated particularly at how they are being applied and a reluctance (?) to lock up the repeat offenders.  I have no idea where the solution is.

We don't know what the opposition would do as the current mob have been in power for the last 12 years and its hard to find an area of the state they have improved under their leadership.

Any half decent opposition should have been a shoe in the last few elections and its a blight on the sad state of local government that despite doing such a poor job the same party keeps getting re-elected.  The libs do little to instill confidence amongst the people but the current mob has had 12 years and look at where we are at - time is well and truly up and someone else should be given the chance to improve right the wrongs.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #12 –
To me the main problem seems to be the gutless mask wearing thugs opportunistically hiding behind legitimate causes to create havoc, "Sovereign Citizens", 1%ers", "Conspiracy Nutters" and "Neo-Nazis" hiding behind university students and grandmothers.

This has little or nothing to do with the political left or right, that's just an excuse to bash a political opponent, the p1ssweak political parties are happy to schtuum it up when the target is the opposition.

Laws were passed to unmask these extremists, but they have never been enacted, it's as my signature quote states.

Step one should be removing the opportunity to profit from this sort of behaviour and a lot of it will evaporate, like that nutter who runs the Desi Retreats!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #13 –
It was the anti racism protesters yesterday throwing rocks the size of coke cans at police.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #14 –
Quote from: LP – on
To me the main problem seems to be the gutless mask wearing thugs opportunistically hiding behind legitimate causes to create havoc, "Sovereign Citizens", 1%ers", "Conspiracy Nutters" and "Neo-Nazis" hiding behind university students and grandmothers.

This has little or nothing to do with the political left or right, that's just an excuse to bash a political opponent, the p1ssweak political parties are happy to schtuum it up when the target is the opposition.

Laws were passed to unmask these extremists, but they have never been enacted, it's as my signature quote states.

Step one should be removing the opportunity to profit from this sort of behaviour and a lot of it will evaporate, like that nutter who runs the Desi Retreats!
Crime increases when society breaks down more and people get more desperate in their efforts to survive.
Australia has become like the old Germany post WW1 when it transitioned from a semi-authoritarian empire to the Weimar Republic, a democracy that protected individual right and limited police power. You end up with the people looking for alternatives to restore safety and  order and thats when you get right wing extremists and nutters like the Nazi Party back then or in our case One Nation gaining popularity, political support and eventually power.
A lot of what went on back then mirrors what is happening in Australia even down to recent events with Jewish folk being hassled and buildings defaced etc due to society tolerating and being weak on offenders under the banner of democracy and freedom of speech etc but it all gets down to politics.
In short you have to fix the economic problems to fix the crime problems or you will get a repeat of history on a world wide level not just Australia..