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Topic: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments  (Read 15854 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #150 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Jacinta tells us the state is safe and our bail laws are the toughest in the country.

Yet an 11 year old stabs a 8 year old and police have confirmed no charges will
be laid as he is under the age of criminal conviction. He wore a balaclava had a fake gun and proceeded to stab a grade one child and a teacher. Did an adult crime so why allow him off scott free- Htf is this kid going to learn? Can you imagine in 5 years time what he will do. Juvenile detention is a min for this kid yet cant be charged.

Meanwhile at coles in Laurimar Machettes gang members terrorise innocent citizens going about their daily business - 2 of these criminals were charged yet unbelievably were yet again released on bail!! Can you fking believe it - nothing changes.

WTF has happened to our state - its out of control and regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on something needs to change and change fast.

The Laws and sentencing need major overhaulling yet nothing will happen as those running the state deny there is any issue.

Sad sad state of affairs

Are you near laurimar shawny?
I know a lot of residents are losing their crap over this and it appears people are very close to pitchforks and torches.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #151 –
On topic and highly recommended, Alec Karakatsanis' book Copaganda, released earlier this year.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #152 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: shawny – on
Jacinta tells us the state is safe and our bail laws are the toughest in the country.

Yet an 11 year old stabs a 8 year old and police have confirmed no charges will
be laid as he is under the age of criminal conviction. He wore a balaclava had a fake gun and proceeded to stab a grade one child and a teacher. Did an adult crime so why allow him off scott free- Htf is this kid going to learn? Can you imagine in 5 years time what he will do. Juvenile detention is a min for this kid yet cant be charged.

Meanwhile at coles in Laurimar Machettes gang members terrorise innocent citizens going about their daily business - 2 of these criminals were charged yet unbelievably were yet again released on bail!! Can you fking believe it - nothing changes.

WTF has happened to our state - its out of control and regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on something needs to change and change fast.

The Laws and sentencing need major overhaulling yet nothing will happen as those running the state deny there is any issue.

Sad sad state of affairs

Are you near laurimar shawny?
I know a lot of residents are losing their crap over this and it appears people are very close to pitchforks and torches.

Im about 20mins away and yes the local FB noticeboard comments in the area were filled with very angry fed up locals inferring its time we take matters into out own hands and draw arms. They think there is no other option to protect their families against what is groups of young violent men that have no respect for the law or for anyone that is around when these clashes go down. As we know they have no regard for human life.

Scary times and bloody sad to see what our state has turned into. Its hard to believe and only going to increase with the lack of accountability and governance we have.

These offenders dont operate in ways we are used to. They have no regard for anyone and until we get super tough by locking them up for long sentences they laugh at our p1ss weak ridiculous responses like macheete bins weak sentences and majority being bailed within 48 hours of getting apprehended - they will just go on their merry way causing havoc with these violent clashes and if you get caught up in it they wont think twice to stab slash kill and why citizens are privately preparing to do whats needed to protect their families as the leaders are incapable of it.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #154 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://theconversation.com/is-australia-becoming-a-more-violent-country-260102

In this case i don't care what media report or our head in the sand leader telling us everytime another stabbing is reported that the state is safe and great but as i was born with eyes and ears in this case I will trust what i see first hand and how bad things have rather then believe a left leaning publication that happens to be 4 months old. If you like i can send you 100s of links of articles saying the complete opposite but i know you will say its 'Fake news' being from the other direction.

Talk to those who live in the west or those that go out into the city after dark or talk to emergency service workers who are on the front line and ask them. There is no denying it - the wheel has turned to a point where Vics are leaving in droves to get out.  

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #155 –
The solution to this violence problem is to support VicPol and it's actions, not undermine it, the problem for everybody at the moment is the left wing govnerment is basically creating and anti-police legal structure.

Add to that, many of the same people most loudly complaining about machetes and calling for vigilantism are the same ones throwing rocks at the police lines, it's ironic this weekend that many roll up to the Australia Protest, an event effectively organised and managed by a white neo-nazi New Zealander.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #156 –
Quote from: shawny – on
In this case i don't care what media report or our head in the sand leader telling us everytime another stabbing is reported that the state is safe and great but as i was born with eyes and ears in this case I will trust what i see first hand and how bad things have rather then believe a left leaning publication that happens to be 4 months old. If you like i can send you 100s of links of articles saying the complete opposite but i know you will say its 'Fake news' being from the other direction.

Talk to those who live in the west or those that go out into the city after dark or talk to emergency service workers who are on the front line and ask them. There is no denying it - the wheel has turned to a point where Vics are leaving in droves to get out.  

Rather than poisoning the well, you should post those 100's of links and let me decide for myself. Also, I didn't realize Victoria's crime rate had spiraled out of control in the last 4 months.

That article is part of a 4 part series, and all 4 are well worth a read.

EDIT : I should also state that the main reason I post articles from The Conversation is that :
a : the authors are typically experts in their field, and
b: the articles frequently contain links to data, research, statistics and other articles that back up the claims being made.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #157 –
@Paul, i think the issue is what Shawny is seeing locally and in the news and comparing that to the same area previously.
On that front he is right. The area is getting worse.
Whether that translates to victoria wide, not sure. Maybe all these crimes occuring there used to occur in a different area that has cleaned up its act, essentially handballing the problem further down the field in a game of hot potato

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #158 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Maybe all these crimes occuring there used to occur in a different area that has cleaned up its act, essentially handballing the problem further down the field in a game of hot potato

That's often the case in a big city.
With population movement the character of an area can change dramatically.
Areas that were once reasonably quiet suddenly become places of unrest, while others that seemed troubled settle and become more stable.
It certainly happened in Sydney over my lifetime.
Suburbs that were once considered places to avoid became trendy and up market as populations moved further from the original centre of the city.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #159 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
@Paul, i think the issue is what Shawny is seeing locally and in the news and comparing that to the same area previously.
On that front he is right. The area is getting worse.
Whether that translates to victoria wide, not sure. Maybe all these crimes occuring there used to occur in a different area that has cleaned up its act, essentially handballing the problem further down the field in a game of hot potato

I'm not denying these incidents occurred - plainly they have. What I take issue with is the framing and reporting of such incidents, the lack of detail and context, the fact that outside of outlets like The Conversation and similar, expert opinion is rarely sought. Once the level of fear mongering reaches a fever pitch, which in the current climate does not take long, government policy and resources is forced to prioritize, and therefore needs to be seen to be taking action. In a space where resources are limited, this means other areas miss out. As I mentioned earlier, violent crime rates have been in decline for 20 or so years, except very significantly in the area of domestic violence, where the rates have been regrettably stable over the same period. Yet you won't read about that nearly as much because it doesn't grab the public's attention in the same way as black kids with machetes.

I'm safely assuming we can all agree that there has never been and never will be a zero crime rate, anywhere on earth, which means we must all accept some level of crime. The issue then becomes one of perceptions and personal boundaries : is there is difference between "feeling" safe and "being" safe ? What crime rate would constitute the government having crime "under control" and conversely at what point is crime "out of control" ? Etc.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #160 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
@Paul, i think the issue is what Shawny is seeing locally and in the news and comparing that to the same area previously.
On that front he is right. The area is getting worse.
Whether that translates to victoria wide, not sure. Maybe all these crimes occuring there used to occur in a different area that has cleaned up its act, essentially handballing the problem further down the field in a game of hot potato

I'm not denying these incidents occurred - plainly they have. What I take issue with is the framing and reporting of such incidents, the lack of detail and context, the fact that outside of outlets like The Conversation and similar, expert opinion is rarely sought. Once the level of fear mongering reaches a fever pitch, which in the current climate does not take long, government policy and resources is forced to prioritize, and therefore needs to be seen to be taking action. In a space where resources are limited, this means other areas miss out. As I mentioned earlier, violent crime rates have been in decline for 20 or so years, except very significantly in the area of domestic violence, where the rates have been regrettably stable over the same period. Yet you won't read about that nearly as much because it doesn't grab the public's attention in the same way as black kids with machetes.

I'm safely assuming we can all agree that there has never been and never will be a zero crime rate, anywhere on earth, which means we must all accept some level of crime. The issue then becomes one of perceptions and personal boundaries : is there is difference between "feeling" safe and "being" safe ? What crime rate would constitute the government having crime "under control" and conversely at what point is crime "out of control" ? Etc.

What i was trying to get across, was that it could be a case of 'you are both right' from your own point of view.

What he is seeing, and i'm not far from their either, is definitely an increase in these types of crimes over previous.
Real world statistics may ultimately suggest otherwise, and i gave a reason for that in which Lods agrees is plausible if not probable.
 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #161 –
I imagine that most folk were shocked at the report of the 11 year old boy stabbing the 8 year old at school.  What a terrible experience for the two children, their classmates, the teachers and the families.  But then, when you think about it, there over 380,000 children attending government primary schools in Victoria.  One out of 380,000 isn't too shabby, particularly when you consider that more than 4,300 children and teens are shot and killed in the USA every year and over 17,000 more are shot and wounded.  It is estimated that 3 million children in the US are exposed to shootings per year but successive governments there do nothing about it ... and that fruitcake Pauline Hanson tried to solicit donations from the NRA in return for watering down Australia's gun laws.

Who knows what motivated the 11 year old to do what he did?  We can speculate about domestic violence, abuse, the influence of violent video games or TV programs and mental health issues.  Has anyone else noticed how TV characters suffer punches, and knife and bullet wounds and carry on as if nothing is wrong?  Does that unrealistic ability to absorb punishment give children the impression that violence doesn't really do any harm?

So why hasn't the 11 year old been charged?  Quite simply, the age of criminal responsibility in Victoria is 12 (It was raised  which was raised from 10 earlier this year) and the law recognises that children are unlikely to understand the impact of their actions or to comprehend criminal proceedings.  Brain studies have conclusively shown that the prefrontal cortex – the part of the brain responsible for risk assessment, decision making and impulse control – doesn’t fully develop until after adolescence (10–19 years) and into early adulthood (20–29 years). This developmental process means children and young people are unable to think about their actions and understand the potential consequences in the same way as adults.

I think that most of us can look back with horror at some of the things we got up to as pre-teens and teenagers.  Converting spud guns to fire .22 bullets and shooting at cars on Bell Street, Coburg was not one of my brightest ideas.

Obviously steps need to be taken to understand why the eleven year old did what he did and to ensure that it doesn't happen again.   I don't know how that can be done but I do know that charging him and dragging him before the courts is not the answer.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball