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Topic: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments  (Read 66814 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #300 –
Once you have wealth and power and access to resources concentrated in the hands of a few, the possibility of corrupt behavior by both giver and taker increases significantly. 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #301 –
My father used to know a number of politicians back in the day, some from his school (he went to Richmond Tech until his father died), some from his business dealings. It did colour the way he voted. He found Labour almost impossible to vote for after that.
My Uncle was the dux at Camberwell Grammar, and knew some people on the other side of politics. His tales were interesting, but ultimately didn't effect the way he voted.
Some of my voting behaviour comes from my time teaching. At some schools I was told not to attend when a strike was going on, or "I would know about it". That made sure I didn't go on strike.
Similarly, I was extremely unimpressed by the changes in education that eventually became the VCE. (Thankfully, many of my issues were eventually addressed, but it took a long time for sense to prevail.) I wanted us to strike over the idiocy, but we were told we were not allowed to strike, because a Labour government was in power.
Similarly, when the schools were being closed back in the day, we were told to strike when Kennett was in power. When we were not happy when the next Labour government continued the policy (just not making it public), we were informed that we couldn't strike.

I have never appreciated hypocrisy and have never liked it being thrust in my face.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #302 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: shawny – on


Nice try at deflecting.

How people accept this absolute bloody disgrace corrupt bunch of criminals that just happens to be in charge of running our state - running it into the ground astounds me.

And my comparsion to US politics and the obsession with everything that happens on the other side of the world is very relevant and if comparing that to the corrupt government we have here just happens to trigger you well so be it.

Im fking triggered at the corrupt spending of 15 BILLION dollars of OUR money.

15 billion in case you didnt know is 15 thousand MILLION and yet not one comment about your thoughts on this situation.

i wonder why that is ?😏

I'm still waiting for you to have a crack at Chris Minns for the scumbag who kinghit Peter Dean being dealt with under the Young Offenders Act  ::)

If you're triggered by headlines, you probably should delve a little deeper, and I don't mean listening to influencer podcasts.

First of all the Allan Government doesn't "just happen to be in charge", they were democratically elected and, when you consider the rabble that's supposed to be the opposition, it's easy to see why.  The opposition at national level is worse, if anything, and Malcolm Turnbull's description of their incoming leader as the “best qualified idiot” is spot on.  It's funny how politicians often make more sense after they retire.

Secondly, the allegations, and that's all they are at this stage, were set out in a draft report by barrister Geoffrey Watson SC.  The draft report detailed the results of an investigation into CFMEU criminality and corruption commissioned by CFMEU administrator Mark Irving KC.  As I'm sure you know, Irving was appointed by the Commonwealth Government to clean up the CFMEU.  The report isn't a public document and is the property of the CFMEU.  When Irving read the draft, he directed Watson to delete two sections alleging that the Allan government knew of the CFMEU aggression and corruption, that Watson estimated cost Victorian taxpayers $15 billion, because he (Irving) was “not satisfied that they were well-founded or properly tested”.  That's the opinion of a King's Council and one of the most senior and respected industrial relations lawyers in the country, not a half-baked politician or shock jock.

Watson is p1ssed off that his allegations have been discarded but he recently said the government “would be mad to get rid of Mark Irving" and “I’ve worked for Irving for two years now, and I’ve never met a more honest or decent man … I can tell you, everything he did was opposed to corruption and was in favour of fixing the CFMEU.”

I think that scuttles any suggestion that Irving's rejection of the $15 billion corruption allegations was politically motivated or in any way intended to protect politicians or CFMEU operatives.

It's possible that the CFMEU did cost Victorian taxpayers $15 billion, or perhaps even $30 billion.  Heads should roll if the CFMEU cost Victorian taxpayers any funds above and beyond legitimate construction costs, and I don't just mean Allan and the relevant Ministers.  There's a raft of people - bureaucrats, police, regulators, auditors, union officials, opposition leader, shadow ministers, etc - who should be taking action at the slightest whiff of misuse of public funds and union corruption.

For the record, I don't think much of our democratically elected State Government; they're tired, short on talent, running out of ideas and money and desperately need a spell in opposition.  Sadly for Victoria and Victorians, the alternative government is no better after such a promising start by John Pesutto.  While I admire him for taking on the fascists, he wasn't very smart in the way that he went about it.

The Allan government were not democratically elected, Allan was handed the position by her party after the criminal behind her up and resigned which was after yet another lie after promising 6 months prior to the election he would be seeing out his term.  This was not a leader that was elected democratically by the voters let's get that straight.

Back to the point at hand, we can all find reports pointing to slightly different reasoning behind why and how the money wasted occurred and you may even choose to accept Allan saying she knew nothing about it but lets be honest that is all semantics and you can draw whatever conclusions you want from that - the bottom line is it happened and the governing party at the time is responsible. Surely you agree with that.  

I'm in agreeance with you in not being overly confident in the Libs but we as a state cannot allow the current party to govern any longer and anyone that cast's their vote for them again in November won't be able to keep a straight face saying they are voting with their head, as they aren't.

Long overdue for a change

Ok that's it for me - off to do some weeding.

 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #303 –
Quote from: shawny – on
The Allan government were not democratically elected, Allan was handed the position by her party after the criminal behind her up and resigned which was after yet another lie after promising 6 months prior to the election he would be seeing out his term.  This was not a leader that was elected democratically by the voters let's get that straight.

Back to the point at hand, we can all find reports pointing to slightly different reasoning behind why and how the money wasted occurred and you may even choose to accept Allan saying she knew nothing about it but lets be honest that is all semantics and you can draw whatever conclusions you want from that - the bottom line is it happened and the governing party at the time is responsible. Surely you agree with that.  

I'm in agreeance with you in not being overly confident in the Libs but we as a state cannot allow the current party to govern any longer and anyone that cast's their vote for them again in November won't be able to keep a straight face saying they are voting with their head, as they aren't.

Long overdue for a change

Ok that's it for me - off to do some weeding.

You need to brush upon our system of government Shawny.  Voters elect their local member and five MLCs for each of eight regions.  The party that controls the Legislative Assembly forms government and their party room elects/appoints the Premier, Ministers, etc.  The ALP was democratically elected in 2022 and they chose Jacinta Allan to be Premier.  That's our democratic process for better or for worse.

As I said previously, there were unsubstantiated allegations contained in a draft CFMEU commissioned report.  Those allegations may be true or they may not.  Again, if the allegations can be substantiated, heads should roll.

I agree that we need a change of government but the Coalition isn't a viable alternative and even hard line conservatives like Steve Price are on record stating that they can't win the next election.  Time will tell I guess.

Our local member works extremely hard for our community and a Liberal candidate would need a 17% swing to unseat her.  That's not going to happen ... and I'm in a rural electorate.

If you run out of weeds I've got plenty at my place  :)
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #304 –
DJC, I understand how it works. I'm not as ignorant as I think you like to believe I am.  

Allan was not elected 'by the people' to govern the state. Andrews was.  She was then 'elected' by the party which was my point.

Anyhow weeding completed as also is the discussion for me on this one mate. 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #305 –
Quote from: DJC – on
You need to brush upon our system of government Shawny.  Voters elect their local member and five MLCs for each of eight regions. 
On the MLC, since 2006 a party can nominate a existing member as a replacment to a casual vacany without election, it's the one and only method people have of getting into parliament without being elected. They do have to be aproved by a joint sitting.

Prior to 2006 a by-election was required, but the change was made because it was seen as a way of getting more people involved in politics, to ensure all regions have representation.

In recent years it's become controversial because federal parties have issued directives to state parties regarding who to nominate / elect.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #306 –
Quote from: shawny – on

Allan was not elected 'by the people' to govern the state. Andrews was.  She was then 'elected' by the party which was my point.
Nobody elects a poltician to be a Premier, Treasurer or any other position, those positions are the result of an internal party vote as are casual vacanies in the Legilstative Council. We do not have a Republic or President.

In the Legislative Council(Upper House) you might well think you are voting for a person, but you are really voting for a party.

For the Legislative Assembly(Lower House), you vote locally for your local member, those who first win locally become candidates for the party to elect to senior positions.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #307 –
Quote from: shawny – on
DJC, I understand how it works. I'm not as ignorant as I think you like to believe I am.  

Allan was not elected 'by the people' to govern the state. Andrews was.  She was then 'elected' by the party which was my point.

Anyhow weeding completed as also is the discussion for me on this one mate.

No Premiers, or Prime Ministers for that matter, are elected by the people to govern. 

Good job with the weeding!
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #308 –
Fun facts:

The Australian Constitution does not mention "Prime Minister".  "Ministers of State" are appointed by the Governor-General.  They don't have to be elected but may only hold office for three months unless they do become a senator or MP.  In practice, the Governor-General only appoints Ministers as directed by the Prime Minister - who doesn't exist constitutionally  ::)

The office of Premier is not defined in the Victorian Constitution but "Premier" is mentioned several times. For example Clause 8A states, "The [Legislative] Assembly may be dissolved if a motion of no confidence in the Premier and the other Ministers of State for the State of Victoria is passed by the Assembly ..."  There's no mention of how someone can become the Premier or be removed as Premier, apart from through a no confidence motion as in Clause 8A.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #309 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: shawny – on

Allan was not elected 'by the people' to govern the state. Andrews was.  She was then 'elected' by the party which was my point.
Nobody elects a poltician to be a Premier, Treasurer or any other position, those positions are the result of an internal party vote as are casual vacanies in the Legilstative Council. We do not have a Republic or President.

In the Legislative Council(Upper House) you might well think you are voting for a person, but you are really voting for a party.

For the Legislative Assembly(Lower House), you vote locally for your local member, those who first win locally become candidates for the party to elect to senior positions.

Why is their name on the ballot form
if your not electing the leader?

every election campaign the leaders are debating against each other in full campaigning mode. spin it any way you want while we all know we vote for the party the leaders qualities polices etc are very much tied to him/her and who we all see when voting.

look at the last election all the hype talk was on kicking Dan out. it failed but all talk was on him.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #310 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Why is their name on the ballot form
if your not electing the leader?
Unless you were in Allens or Andrews seat their names weren't on your ballot form.

You're confusing marketing and advertising around party politics and leaders with the ballot.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #311 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: shawny – on
Why is their name on the ballot form
if your not electing the leader?
Unless you were in Allens or Andrews seat their names weren't on your ballot form.

I think you know what i meant. every bit of advertising leafouts hand outs shows the leaders face.


blind freddie knows who the leaders are.

anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #312 –
Quote from: shawny – on
anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me. 
So in a political thread discussing state politics elections are off topic, while in a thread about a past player being bashed in a car jacking in NSW we have to talk state politics!

Sure, we understand! ::)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #313 –
Quote from: shawny – on
I think you know what i meant. every bit of advertising leafouts hand outs shows the leaders face.


blind freddie knows who the leaders are.

anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me.

But you said that the current State government wasn’t democratically elected.  Despite their many faults, the ALP was democratically elected with a thumping majority  - and a weak opposition of any flavour means that we have to rely on the media to keep the government on track, and that’s not good.

And the party leaders’ names are only on the ballot papers for their own electorates.  In fact it wasn’t so long ago that party affiliations weren’t permitted on ballot papers - and that’s why how to vote cards came into being.



"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #314 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: shawny – on
anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me.
So in a political thread discussing state politics elections are off topic, while in a thread about a past player being bashed in a car jacking in NSW we have to talk state politics!

Sure, we understand! ::)

Thread about a past player?

The post you replied to was originally relating to the 15Billion debarkle and then shifted to whos names appear on voting papers, hence the reference to off topic.

i get its a specialty of those who cant keep on the topic of local matters when it doesnt suit their political views.

Its there for all to see 🤓