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Topic: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments  (Read 69633 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #315 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: shawny – on
I think you know what i meant. every bit of advertising leafouts hand outs shows the leaders face.


blind freddie knows who the leaders are.

anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me.

But you said that the current State government wasn’t democratically elected.

thats not what i said at all!!

my comment was relating to allan not being elected democratically.

she was elected by her party and i stand by that.

I understand what your saying but dont agree with it.

anyhow we are going in circles now

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #316 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: DJC – on


But you said that the current State government wasn’t democratically elected.

thats not what i said at all!!

my comment was relating to allan not being elected democratically.

she was elected by her party and i stand by that.

I understand what your saying but dont agree with it.

anyhow we are going in circles now


As stated, you don’t vote for a leader.
You vote for a person in a group and the biggest group votes for one of their mates to be the boss.
You might think that the boss of one group has nice hair and white teeth but you don’t get to vote for them usually.
The best you can hope for is that that guys group is the biggest and that they subsequently make him boss but again, you usually don’t get to vote for him.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #317 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: DJC – on


But you said that the current State government wasn’t democratically elected.

thats not what i said at all!!

my comment was relating to allan not being elected democratically.

she was elected by her party and i stand by that.

I understand what your saying but dont agree with it.

anyhow we are going in circles

The leader of every government and opposition in Australia is elected by their Party; Sussan Ley was elected by the Liberals in Canberra, now it's Angus Taylor.  We had Rudd-Gillard-Rudd, then Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison, all PMs elected by their parties.  The Victorian opposition has had Guy-O'Brien-Guy-Pesutto-Battin-Wilson, all elected by the Liberal party room.  And we've had Baillieu-Napthine and then Andrews-Allan as Premier.  The voters don't have a say in it.

I get that you don't like Allan, or Andrews, but Allan was democratically elected, as was her government, and she is Premier in accordance with the Westminster principles of government that have been in place in Victoria since 1855.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #318 –
Quote from: shawny – on

Thread about a past player?

The post you replied to was originally relating to the 15Billion debarkle and then shifted to whos names appear on voting papers, hence the reference to off topic.

i get its a specialty of those who cant keep on the topic of local matters when it doesnt suit their political views.

Its there for all to see 🤓
You're disingenuous, basically projecting your own behaviour, except as a tactic you are rubbish at it.

Everyone engaged in the Peter Dean bashing thread and this thread knows you're making a goose of yourself. What we don't know if it's you being deliberate to cross post and wind people up, or if you are just genuinely naive, chaotic and erratic.

But the more you post it becomes clearer and clearer you have little to say that is worth reading, you're painting yourself as either a rock thrower, sufferer of Dunning Kruger syndrome or genuinely detached from reality.

Don't go postal, get help, you genuinely need help I'm not joking.

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #319 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: shawny – on

Thread about a past player?

The post you replied to was originally relating to the 15Billion debarkle and then shifted to whos names appear on voting papers, hence the reference to off topic.

i get its a specialty of those who cant keep on the topic of local matters when it doesnt suit their political views.

Its there for all to see 🤓
You're disingenuous, basically projecting your own behaviour, except as a tactic you are rubbish at it.

Everyone engaged in the Peter Dean bashing thread and this thread knows you're making a goose of yourself. What we don't know if it's you being deliberate to cross post and wind people up, or if you are just genuinely naive, chaotic and erratic.

But the more you post it becomes clearer and clearer you have little to say that is worth reading, you're painting yourself as either a rock thrower, sufferer of Dunning Kruger syndrome or genuinely detached from reality.

Don't go postal, get help, you genuinely need help I'm not joking.

You again refused to read my replay and answer it and went with a personal dig all in an attempt to avoid admitting the dean assault posts had absolutely nothing to do with when you chimed in.

By the way im so curious why did you choose to pipe up when you did yet crickets from
you when all the original posts were made about the wasting of 15billion dollars - now why would that be the case i wonder 😏?

Note- dont forget to include the dean assault again🥴

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #320 –
@Shawny My concerns are genuine, you are on a self-destructive course fueled by social media fantasies, false claims and errors in fact. What if any valid points you make are lost in a blanket of subterfuge. Fantasies which you defend vigorously. It's a sign you're heading towards becoming the next Desi or Richard, and that is why my concerns are genuine. I've seen others go down this path, it never ends well.

People won't debate fantasy because those who profligate fantasy just grow the fantasy and bend it to suit perceptions and ignore or abuse those who often have done nothing more than offer reality as a measure of fact or fantasy. Even as the fantasies become more fantastical, the facts remain the same.

I can't or won't debate fantasies, but I'm free to never hesitate in pointing out errors, false claims or outright lies, which can be done with simple rudimentary facts.

Australian Government, Federal and State, is elected under the Westminster System. A system built on transparency, accountability and legality, even those matters held in camera area available to the review and debate of their peers, As such our political leaders are not autocrats, and they have no means of becoming autocratic. They answer to the public, they are elected by the public, and their political parties live and die by their performance. These are hard facts, not fantasy.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #321 –
Quote from: LP – on
@Shawny My concerns are genuine, you are on a self-destructive course fueled by social media fantasies, false claims and errors in fact. What if any valid points you make are lost in a blanket of subterfuge. Fantasies which you defend vigorously. It's a sign you're heading towards becoming the next Desi or Richard, and that is why my concerns are genuine. I've seen others go down this path, it never ends well.

People won't debate fantasy because those who profligate fantasy just grow the fantasy and bend it to suit perceptions and ignore or abuse those who often have done nothing more than offer reality as a measure of fact or fantasy. Even as the fantasies become more fantastical, the facts remain the same.

I can't or won't debate fantasies, but I'm free to never hesitate in pointing out errors, false claims or outright lies, which can be done with simple rudimentary facts.

Australian Government, Federal and State, is elected under the Westminster System. A system built on transparency, accountability and legality, even those matters held in camera area available to the review and debate of their peers, As such our political leaders are not autocrats, and they have no means of becoming autocratic. They answer to the public, they are elected by the public, and their political parties live and die by their performance. These are hard facts, not fantasy.


As kruddler has pointed out several times you don't read posts you just reply with any angle you can point score on, this time going on a tangent about a single point which has no relevance to the original post.

The original post was on our current Governments blowing of 15B of taxpayers money on hookers, bikies, drugs to name a few. Blind Freddie knows why you keep avoiding the original post so not going to spell it out.  

Also as you only deal in facts, this means we have all seen the last of your posts on how the AFL, Tribunal, Media all conspire against Carlton.... Remember you don't debate fantasy conspiracies, only facts mate :)) 

And by the way its Dezi not Desi..... If you're going to insult me get the spelling right ::)  

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #322 –
I clearly state when I am discussing perceptions and appearances versus reality, matters of subjectivity versus objectivity. We can laugh and joke about matters of footy, it's conspiracies, agency and perceptions of bias, but they are meaningless like the dribble on a footy panel show.

However, a town crier like approach to spreading lies and misdirection about real world politics and society is destructive and not a valid basis for argument, it is anarchistic in this thread and any other perspective.

Some might be offended by my call for those afflicted by distortions of reality to seek assistance, but it's a genuine call, we can't tell from the words who is taking the piss, who is a troll or who is genuine.

Those on this destructive type of path as a minimum hurt themself, but often also hurt others along the way, especially those impressionable. The same mechanism that leads youth to idolise nutters and radicals, words are as contributive to the youth crime epidemic as any drug dealer, words led to Desi, et al.. Hanson's version of democracy comes at a very high price to society, as the USA is finding out about RedTrump, and it starts with a loud false claim of systematic fraud or misrepresentation.

This is an open tolerant forum, far more tolerant to open debate than most, and one of the reasons we prefer it over so many others, people can spread conspiracies and fantasies within reason and shouldn't be offended when others may call them out for doing so.

Australia is not an autocracy, unlike some high profile regions, we actually do have freedom of speech.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #323 –
It's interesting to read about Jeff Kennett calling for an alliance between the Liberals and One Nation, I'd assert the polls are a tad selective to say the least. Kennett is happy to sell the soul of his former party for a dying shot at power. It's an interesting debate of means and ends.

For what it is worth, in Victoria at least, One Nation has become a trove for hard right fundamentalist Christian lobbyists. People who at times can be even scarier than the Neo Nazis that hide among them, perhaps not in violent extremism but at least in oppression, intolerance and persecution. Lobbyists who think racism, homophobia and bigotry are justified by God. They are the other side of the extremist coin to radical Muslim, and my signature line says it all.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #324 –
Quote from: LP – on
It's interesting to read about Jeff Kennett calling for an alliance between the Liberals and One Nation, I'd assert the polls are a tad selective to say the least. Kennett is happy to sell the soul of his former party for a dying shot at power. It's an interesting debate of means and ends.

For what it is worth, in Victoria at least, One Nation has become a trove for hard right fundamentalist Christian lobbyists. People who at times can be even scarier than the Neo Nazis that hide among them, perhaps not in violent extremism but at least in oppression, intolerance and persecution. Lobbyists who think racism, homophobia and bigotry are justified by God. They are the other side of the extremist coin to radical Muslim, and my signature line says it all.
Jess Allan well ahead in the preferred Premier polls according to the Herald Sun and I can see the Libs being tempted to do that preference deal with One Nation.
Won't matter much with debt soaring and the future bleak for Victorian's it's a Poison Chalice for who ever wins.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #325 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Jess Allan well ahead in the preferred Premier polls according to the Herald Sun and I can see the Libs being tempted to do that preference deal with One Nation.

Won't matter much with debt soaring and the future bleak for Victorian's it's a Poison Chalice for who ever wins.
Yes, it will be intersting to see if Allan can make the glitter stick, at the moment she is travelling on a promise of potential.

Regarding infrastructure and budget, those of us old enough might recall hearing so much of the same rhetoric when the West Gate Bridge was built, and when it was rebuilt, but decades on now many of the same claim it is now indispensible critical infrastructure and makes the tunnel redundant. The problem here is that critics live in the now and the past, and have no genuine regard for the real future as Melbourne grows, despite all the mainstream media argy bargy Vic is continuing to grow faster than any other state, that infrastructure duplication will be needed, as will the train loop, and maybe more as well. Many local councils are projecting population growth of 50% by 2050, none are projecting contraction, ignore what News Ltd and Faceplant tell you as they speak bullsh1zen. If things are as they seem, the next big infrastructure spend must be water and water recycling, they have no choice but to start very very soon, it'll make the desalination plant look cheap. For reference, I've heard it stated for a 100% growth in population, you need a 500% growth in water, assuming all other things like weather, water quality and food are to remain equal.

Does anyone really think that for example cities like Paris or London paid for the train loops in advance, and that they aren't still paying?

But what's the real issue here, the personal issue, the thing that affects those doing the complaining? Do they genuinely think no tunnel, train loops or other infrastructure will make houses, rents and food cheaper? What's the connection?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #326 –
Quote from: LP – on
This is an open tolerant forum, far more tolerant to open debate than most, and one of the reasons we prefer it over so many others, people can spread conspiracies and fantasies within reason and shouldn't be offended when others may call them out for doing so.

Are you taking the piss? Seriously?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #327 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Are you taking the piss? Seriously?
@madbluboy So you think there are other football forums that are more open and tolerant, can you offer some examples?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #328 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Are you taking the piss? Seriously?
@madbluboy So you think there are other football forums that are more open and tolerant, can you offer some examples?


How are you and others being tolerant of Shawny's views? This thread was created to mock him.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #329 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: LP – on
@madbluboy So you think there are other football forums that are more open and tolerant, can you offer some examples?


How are you and others being tolerant of Shawny's views? This thread was created to mock him.

It would seem to have been created for him to voice his thoughts and project some possible solutions but respectfully to Shawny, it reads more as I’m not happy raging/venting.
His articulation of his understanding of our voting system for eg.

And as for tolerance, you, me and everyone else, maybe not Lods… but the rest of us have all been intolerant boofheads at least once… some are BoG in that space.
Overall this place is very tolerant and respectful to thoughts and opinions *backed up with data* as opposed to trumpian fact devoid outrage.
Thats why I like this place.

Speaking of facts and data based thought and analysis, has anyone here tripped over Carrick Ryan and Mr Cucumber ?
They’re accessible through the fb platform, intelligent, thoughtful analysis of world and Australian politics and debunking social media ragebait.
Let’s go BIG !