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Re: Under 23 players

Reply #1 –
So they've broken it down into sections

Headline Maker- Jagga Smith- will give the side a bit of a "different look" in the midfield  "quick feet, quick hands and classy ball use". He finished fourth in Carlton’s 2km time trial in mid-January and has been a standout in match sims playing as a half-forward and midfield.

X Factor -Ashton Moir -with Charlie gone could become a focal point in the forward role but may also spend some time in the midfield. "Beautiful kick", Good contested mark and has the ability to hit the scoreboard.

Question Marks-The Camporeale Boys, Harry Charleson-will they come on this season. There will be plenty of competition for their spots. Can Ben force his way into the midfield?

Keep it up-This group has shown a bit, will they continue to improve?-Carroll, Wilson, O'Keefe, Cowan, Lord and Ollie Hollands.

Watch this space-Chesser-hampered by injury but "covers the ground well" and "makes good decisions". The Irish lads are mentioned in passing.

Smells like Teen Spirit-Harry Dean-"reads the play well to intercept"...and is "composed with footy in hand", Ison and Byrne are 'exciting talents' but may take a little longer to break into the side.

Missing in action-Motlop and O'Farrell




Re: Under 23 players

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Lods – on
So they've broken it down into sections

Headline Maker- Jagga Smith- will give the side a bit of a "different look" in the midfield  "quick feet, quick hands and classy ball use". He finished fourth in Carlton’s 2km time trial in mid-January and has been a standout in match sims playing as a half-forward and midfield.

X Factor -Ashton Moir -with Charlie gone could become a focal point in the forward role but may also spend some time in the midfield. "Beautiful kick", Good contested mark and has the ability to hit the scoreboard.

Question Marks-The Camporeale Boys, Harry Charleson-will they come on this season. There will be plenty of competition for their spots. Can Ben force his way into the midfield?

Keep it up-This group has shown a bit, will they continue to improve?-Carroll, Wilson, O'Keefe, Cowan, Lord and Ollie Hollands.

Watch this space-Chesser-hampered by injury but "covers the ground well" and "makes good decisions". The Irish lads are mentioned in passing.

Smells like Teen Spirit-Harry Dean-"reads the play well to intercept"...and is "composed with footy in hand", Ison and Byrne are 'exciting talents' but may take a little longer to break into the side.

Missing in action-Motlop and O'Farrell
Moir is the one for me that could make a real difference if he can take the next step, the cameos he gave us last year were tantalising.
The Ox is slow but I'm running out of patience.

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Sexybronco – on
Moir is the one for me that could make a real difference if he can take the next step, the cameos he gave us last year were tantalising.

I suspect that Moir may always be a cameo player and I don't think that he'll be racking up high possessions. There's nothing wrong with that, provided he helps our forward line function, kicks a bag every now and then, and gets a clearance or two when he's thrown into the midfield; a modern day Ryan Houlihan but without the whipping boy status  :)  
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #4 –
Moir reminds me very much of Troy Menzel.

Their cameos look great but like many players of this mould they struggle to add more strings to their bow and can be a bit pigeon holed - maybe they just don't work as hard as they should as their glimpses of brilliance gets them brownie points other less flashy players are not afforded  

As a fan i get very excited with these sorts but have been disappointed more times as only a few go on to play long careers.

Time will tell.  

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #5 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Moir reminds me very much of Troy Menzel.

Their cameos look great but like many players of this mould they struggle to add more strings to their bow and can be a bit pigeon holed - maybe they just don't work as hard as they should as their glimpses of brilliance gets them brownie points other less flashy players are not afforded  

As a fan i get very excited with these sorts but have been disappointed more times as only a few go on to play long careers.

Time will tell.
I fear you’re right but obviously hope he can develop into a solid contributor.
The Ox is slow but I'm running out of patience.

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #6 –
Moir has an upside, and obvious AFL level tricks, we shouldn't be burdening him with too many negatives so early in his career.

This time next year would be the time to be more critical.

The U23 category is interesting, because it basically sits on the boundary of who will and who won't.

At 21 it's too early to write many players off, and by the time players are 25 you know if they are going to make it or not. I realise there will be some claim they told us so, "they knew" back when a player was 18 or 20, but that news always arrives retrospectively.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #7 –
Quote from: LP – on
Moir has an upside, and obvious AFL level tricks, we shouldn't be burdening him with too many negatives so early in his career.

This time next year would be the time to be more critical.

The U23 category is interesting, because it basically sits on the boundary of who will and who won't.

At 21 it's too early to write many players off, and by the time players are 25 you know if they are going to make it or not. I realise there will be some claim they told us so, "they knew" back when a player was 18 or 20, but that news always arrives retrospectively.

Agreed. It's why I don't understand Binns' delisting.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #8 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: LP – on
Moir has an upside, and obvious AFL level tricks, we shouldn't be burdening him with too many negatives so early in his career.

This time next year would be the time to be more critical.

The U23 category is interesting, because it basically sits on the boundary of who will and who won't.

At 21 it's too early to write many players off, and by the time players are 25 you know if they are going to make it or not. I realise there will be some claim they told us so, "they knew" back when a player was 18 or 20, but that news always arrives retrospectively.

Agreed. It's why I don't understand Binns' delisting.

Someone has to get the chop somewhere. 

Once you start having an abundance of players for any one role, and an abundance that can cover them in absence, they need to be a needle mover/difference maker to persist with.  Binns was neither, but had some decent attributes, without being an outstanding player. 

The fact he hasnt made himself back onto an AFL list is probably the tell that everyone had a similar opinion of him.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
The fact he hasnt made himself back onto an AFL list is probably the tell that everyone had a similar opinion of him.
Hmmm, without casting a stone, sometimes this can also be a sign of the opinion someone has of themself!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Sexybronco – on
Quote from: shawny – on
Moir reminds me very much of Troy Menzel.

Their cameos look great but like many players of this mould they struggle to add more strings to their bow and can be a bit pigeon holed - maybe they just don't work as hard as they should as their glimpses of brilliance gets them brownie points other less flashy players are not afforded 

As a fan i get very excited with these sorts but have been disappointed more times as only a few go on to play long careers.

Time will tell.
I fear you’re right but obviously hope he can develop into a solid contributor.
Moir reminds me a lot of Izak Rankine - if he can develop an engine, and rotate through the mids occasionally, he will become far more dangerous.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?
 

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #11 –
Quote from: LP – on
Moir has an upside, and obvious AFL level tricks, we shouldn't be burdening him with too many negatives so early in his career.

This time next year would be the time to be more critical.

The U23 category is interesting, because it basically sits on the boundary of who will and who won't.

At 21 it's too early to write many players off, and by the time players are 25 you know if they are going to make it or not. I realise there will be some claim they told us so, "they knew" back when a player was 18 or 20, but that news always arrives retrospectively.

It’s better to set lower expectations than to anoint a youngster as the next Kouta or whoever.

Moir clearly has the skills and physical attributes to play AFL.  Just how well remains to be seen … and I’d like to be pleasantly surprised 🙂

List managers spend a lot of time assessing youngsters and they get it right most of the time now.  Of course, there will be those youngsters that slip through the net - both ways - and those that avoid the net altogether, like Alex Cincotta.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #12 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: LP – on
Moir has an upside, and obvious AFL level tricks, we shouldn't be burdening him with too many negatives so early in his career.

This time next year would be the time to be more critical.

The U23 category is interesting, because it basically sits on the boundary of who will and who won't.

At 21 it's too early to write many players off, and by the time players are 25 you know if they are going to make it or not. I realise there will be some claim they told us so, "they knew" back when a player was 18 or 20, but that news always arrives retrospectively.

Agreed. It's why I don't understand Binns' delisting.

Too many similar types and he didn't have any tricks, disposal was average.

O. Hollands, L. Camporeale....even Cottrell play the same role and better.

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #13 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Too many similar types and he didn't have any tricks, disposal was average.

O. Hollands, L. Camporeale....even Cottrell play the same role and better.

Chesser's another one, but with a decent sprint in him, if he can get on the park.

Then there's the opposition wingers he would have to match up on in the AFL and opposition VFL coaches working out how to counter his strengths.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Under 23 players

Reply #14 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Too many similar types and he didn't have any tricks, disposal was average.

O. Hollands, L. Camporeale....even Cottrell play the same role and better.
Certainly, competing for the same roles, but Binns' running was well above the others.

Although I think his physicality was well below those he competed with, and that might not be acceptable for a coach with Voss' history!

Anyway, it's just another speculation, I think the real question is not why he was delisted, but why he wasn't picked up because his running is elite at any level.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"