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Topic: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17 (Read 70736 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Im watching the Doggies vs adelaide, and whilst im not sure what changes we can and should make, I dont understand how teams like the Doggies can keep their side together, yet every 8 years or so we end up with an exodus. 

Helps you dont chop and change coach all that much, but we change direction like a weather vane.

False perception!

The Bulldogs have stuck fat with Beveridge, but they’ve turned their list over as much as we have over the last few seasons.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #16 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Im watching the Doggies vs adelaide, and whilst im not sure what changes we can and should make, I dont understand how teams like the Doggies can keep their side together, yet every 8 years or so we end up with an exodus. 

Helps you dont chop and change coach all that much, but we change direction like a weather vane.

False perception!

The Bulldogs have stuck fat with Beveridge, but they’ve turned their list over as much as we have over the last few seasons.
Maybe, but I started wondering when they lost someone high profile to a competitor and im only coming in with a very much finished Luke dahlhaus. 

And Josh dunkley.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: DJC – on


False perception!

The Bulldogs have stuck fat with Beveridge, but they’ve turned their list over as much as we have over the last few seasons.
Maybe, but I started wondering when they lost someone high profile to a competitor and im only coming in with a very much finished Luke dahlhaus. 

And Josh dunkley.

Without any knowledge of the WB, it would appear the environment with Bevo and Grant was extremely toxic. Since Grant has gone, it would appear they have been reinvigorated. Its amazing what happens when there is clean air for everyone.
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #18 –
Let me put this to you another way.

Is there a team that consistently has lost the games premier forwards like we have?

Fevola, betts, waite, curnow.  All in what, 17 years? 

Waite's not in the same hemisphere as the rest, but the point remains that somehow we lose high profile players who are genuine stars of the competition somehow.


Ive left Josh Kennedy out of it because we had to give up something to get Judd.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #19 –
Stop giving your rosary beads such a working over
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: DJC – on


False perception!

The Bulldogs have stuck fat with Beveridge, but they’ve turned their list over as much as we have over the last few seasons.
Maybe, but I started wondering when they lost someone high profile to a competitor and im only coming in with a very much finished Luke dahlhaus. 

And Josh dunkley.


bailey smith goes ok. 

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Let me put this to you another way.

Is there a team that consistently has lost the games premier forwards like we have?

How about Tom Boyd, Liam Jones, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Shaun Higgins, Caleb Daniel, Ryan Griffin, Josh Hill, Jarrad Grant, Jake Stringer?

As well as Callan Ward, Bailey Smith, Jack Macrae, Lewis Young, etc
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #22 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Let me put this to you another way.

Is there a team that consistently has lost the games premier forwards like we have?

How about Tom Boyd, Liam Jones, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Shaun Higgins, Caleb Daniel, Ryan Griffin, Josh Hill, Jarrad Grant, Jake Stringer?

As well as Callan Ward, Bailey Smith, Jack Macrae, Lewis Young, etc
are you seriously putting Lewis young in with the likes of Eddie betts? 

Bailey smith is the only one of those players that id put in the right company.  Ward and griffen too, but they arent the games star forwards, and left that long ago now it was when the giants were fledgling.  At that time we had tuohy and henderson leave but i dont put them in this conversation because why would you?  jamarra may never reach the dizzy heights scripted for him, sub 70 games played at the bulldogs and with sam darcy half fid them a favour as they had the lucury of seeing him go but perceptions are funny and perhaps mine is a bit off.

Even so, this trend of departures that we suffer with, just drives me spare.  Perhaps its a stability issue, perhaps something else but top draft picks, walk.  Last year we lost tdk, jsos and Charlie all in one go all in or around the prime of their careers.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: DJC – on


How about Tom Boyd, Liam Jones, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Shaun Higgins, Caleb Daniel, Ryan Griffin, Josh Hill, Jarrad Grant, Jake Stringer?

As well as Callan Ward, Bailey Smith, Jack Macrae, Lewis Young, etc
are you seriously putting Lewis young in with the likes of Eddie betts?

I was more surprised at the first group of players. That's more like a mental health waiting room. :o
They've had some troubled souls pass through their club.

I think the problem with departing players is down to a number of issues.

Success is at the root of the problem.
A lack of success and not being able to see it in the near future is enough for players in their prime to jump ship.
During their playing years the club is, for many, just a place of work. And if you're not completely satisfied with the workplace it's natural to look at options. Jack Silvagni is an example of that...who would ever have thought.
Players often grow up supporting other clubs. Their commitment to a club only starts from the beginning of their playing time. In many cases the bonds they form with teammates is stonger than their 'love' of club. That's something that comes later, and while it develops into a life long commitment it's a little different from most supporters. That has been a lifetime commitment. We find it harder to understand why players want to move.

Lack of success brings frustration. Teammates and coaches may start to question the commitment of others. That causes division and conflict.
Some look at the years they have left and want to be part of a side challenging for a flag.

But away from success...
There may be disappointment with the roles they are asked to play or how they are being used. It's easy to say 'suck it up''but if you feel that you're being used in a role that doesn't give you the opportunity to play your best football that makes it harder to get enthused. If that is an ongoing issue and another club sees the value, and offers (as an example) more midfield time. That's pretty tempting.

And of course there is the money side of things.
How many would have turned down the DeKoning offer?
Creating the environment where players don't want to leave is not an easy task. It's made a lot easier though by sustained success...and importantly stability, which seems to have eluded us for the last 30 years.

The thing about stability is that it's not something you can demand. It needs to be created. Just holding the line and not making changes when they are required doesn't add to stability. It's a band-aid solution.

 A competent CEO and head of football with a shared vision is a good starting point. Lets see how it goes.

 

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #24 –
When a player leaves is it a departure or an excision?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #25 –
Quote from: LP – on
When a player leaves is it a departure or an excision?

We've probably seen examples of both. ;)

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #26 –
I have a glass half full view on our list but I think we need a Van Rooyen type key forward and a dominant ruckman. Players with pace, can hit targets and don't fumble are also good to recruit.

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #27 –
Quote from: Lods – on
We've probably seen examples of both. ;)
Dependant on who you ask the question of, you'll get different answers in every case.

If an idol leaves, he departed because he was ...................................

If it's the whipping boy, he was excised because ...................................

You can fill in the blanks, they will be a different reason from every fan or blogger.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Blue Moon – on
Players with pace, can hit targets and don't fumble are also good to recruit.
imho, this is key to our slower list performing, when we start double grabs we lose the time and space that we struggled to create in the first place. We play like rabbits in the headlights more than any other team.

It only takes one or two players to make a difference, the inverse of the Swans losing Heeney and Gulden. Some are prone to tell you we need a slash and burn, doing that is utter stupidity. We just need one or two competitive types who can keep up with play and be clean with the footy, and the change will be dramatic.

If we have everybody, coach, players and assistants entering every game like it's a walk to the gallows, held at gunpoint to perform, improvement will never happen.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Blue Moon – on
I have a glass half full view on our list but I think we need a Van Rooyen type key forward and a dominant ruckman. Players with pace, can hit targets and don't fumble are also good to recruit.

Likewise, BM, I reckon most of our list is in good shape.

Our major issue is our midfield/wings. Too slow, too predictable, too many similar/ same types. Thank the gods for Jagga... but he's only one skinny kid with a great footy IQ and silky skills. I still believe Kemp should be given midfield time to see if he can add something... he is hard at it and not slow.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17