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Lapses- Physical or Mental

By now it’s no secret that we have an issue with lapses in our play, where sides get a run on and wipe out our early leads. It’s about as predictable as snow in the Himalayas. What Docherty said was never the issue with his comments, it was the timing that wasn’t helpful. We all can see we have a problem, but it seems that no-one, least of all the coaching staff, have the solutions. We get to half time with a lead and who amongst us is comfortable, given our history of giving up these leads.

Fitness
The question, and argument seems to be… ”Is it fitness, is it mental or a combination of both”. A disturbing part of our last two games is that we’re looking obviously buggered early in the 3rd quarters of our games. We all accept that in any game no side can go at 100% for the entire game. There will be lapses, and that will bring about momentum swings when the opposition will pile on 2 or 3 goals in a row. Our problem is that it’s more often six or seven and a handy lead disappears.

Fitness?? Our last two fitness guys come to us highly credentialed. How is it that what works at one club doesn’t work as well at Carlton. Anyone with a background in strength and conditioning will tell you that over a year you can’t train at maximum intensity for the whole time. There needs to be periods of high intensity and lower intensity to allow the body to adjust and recover. In a sport like track and field it’s a little easier to plan. You have maybe two or three major competitions you target, and you can plan your training intensity around that to have the athlete peak for the major events each year. In football they have to get up each week. Each week is important and then there is the added consideration of being at the top of your game for finals. It’s not an easy task.
 I’m just wondering, and I may be completely wrong…Did we plan to keep the pre-season going and keep training at a higher level for the first two weeks of the competition knowing that the bye would give us time to freshen up and attack the season proper. The expectation would have been that the Swans game at their home ground would have been difficult, but the Richmond game a little easier, so that if we came out of it 1-1 we would have been travelling OK. The result of that approach would account for the drop off and tiring after half time.

Mental
On the other hand, we have this pattern of lapses. It’s not a new thing. Fitness alone can’t account for some of those efforts. It’s the little man on the shoulder. Often it comes after a momentum changer of our own making. A Fogarty miss from straight in front, and suddenly the trigger is pulled. That’s not to single Fogarty out because he’s not Robinson Crusoe and these momentum swingers have been occurring for a few years now. This one is a lot harder to fix than  a fitness one. It’s one I don’t have an answer for short of a Psych or an Exorcist. I think what has to happen is that if we get this momentum changing ‘clanger’ we have to condition ourselves that this is our own 'trigger' to double down and increase the intensity for a brief period. That of course comes with its own danger. If we become over-anxious and give away free kicks that adds to the opposition’s momentum. This is probably where leaders have to lead…and show the way, (not give away free kicks.)

Like everyone else I can see the issue. I have no idea about the answer…but the probable ‘solution’ will be that someone will get the chop.

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #1 –
At one stage I'm sure I watched Walsh run towards FB like a goalkeeper while we're losing a stoppage on the HBF, that is not fitness. Was it tactics or panic?

On the free kick issue, are we ruining the game when we reward players who stage, it's not a skill but is it cheating? It's becoming a bigger and bigger issue in clutch moments, our game is going like soccer!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #2 –
Starts as mental IMO, then becomes physical and then it's a vicious circle. I don't think fitness is the issue.

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #3 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Starts as mental IMO, then becomes physical and then it's a vicious circle. I don't think fitness is the issue.
I learned at the high level in a couple of other sports, state level, that victory is like revenge, a dish best served cold. It saves energy and maintains focus, you can be completely clinical and tactical in your attack on the opposition, and compete with a level of efficiency.

The emotional part is the exact opposite, it sucks the life out of you and generates waste, until you can get past it you'll be consigning yourself to suffer from inconsistency and chaos.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #4 –
Our problem is and Hoyne pointed it out before finals of 2023 is we have to dominate stoppages to win.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #5 –
Every side loses the stoppages and clearances at some point but find other ways to win.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #6 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Our problem is and Hoyne pointed it out before finals of 2023 is we have to dominate stoppages to win.
The problem for Hoyne was he works off stats and averages, but stats and averages do not account for opposition or personal changes or other real world influences.

If I recall correctly after Hoyne made that declaration we won a couple of games despite being beaten at clearances, and ironically the stats gurus then tried to justify those events with spin.

Of course, Cripps can dominate and we can lose, but then again so could Judd, two very different style of player. The winning stoppages stat in that regard, taken in isolation as some sort of waypoint, is completely useless.

When we had Charlie and McKay in tandem, creating and winning stoppages inside F50 which we did with monotonous regularity gave us nothing, because stoppages inside F50 is the antithesis of creating space.

A friend of mine thinks we are goal post obsessed, we spend all our time defending the goal posts on the last line, or trying to push deep into the goal square in F50. We win stoppages inside both 50m arcs, and either have a unless crack hack at scoring, or a hack out of D50, when we often have an option standing unattended in the clear on the defensive side, often inside range in the F50. Smith is different, he's the first player for a decade that I've seen at our club that isn't goal post obssessed.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #7 –
Every side loses the stoppages and clearances at some point but find other ways to win.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #8 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Every side loses the stoppages and clearances at some point but find other ways to win.
It's not just stoppages, you can be down and beaten on any line but still win, in fact I'd argue they are the most important ways to win, when things aren't going your way you find a way to win. What you don't do is surrender to defeat!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #9 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Every side loses the stoppages and clearances at some point but find other ways to win.
@madbluboy‍ Is part of our problem we are trying to win everything, instead of just focussing on maximising what we are best at?

Have we spent too much time focussed on our weaknesses, and that is having a negative effect on what we are good at?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #10 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Starts as mental IMO, then becomes physical and then it's a vicious circle. I don't think fitness is the issue.

Yep. Not rocket surgery. The second half wiltings are right there for all to see... between the lugholes and taxing game-plan. Has been for yonks.

Now on top of that, we're blooding newbies and adapting to a strong game-plan change. Not fitness, not list.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #11 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Every side loses the stoppages and clearances at some point but find other ways to win.
@madbluboy‍ Is part of our problem we are trying to win everything, instead of just focussing on maximising what we are best at?

Have we spent too much time focussed on our weaknesses, and that is having a negative effect on what we are good at?

Mbb can answer for himself, but i need to comment on this.

I think this is a huge issue that is evident in the players we pick. Before i explain, let me digress.

There are 2 types of mentality when trying to win games of footy....with a subtle difference.
1. Kick more goals than the opposition.
2. Keep the opposition to less goals than you.

1. Is attacking.
2. Is defensive.

In reality, you need a bit of both.

We WERE offensive, then we changed and now we are defensive.

Now back to my point.
We are too focused on defense, to the detriment of our offense.

The 'need' to keep playing someone like fogarty because of his 'pressure' is evidence of this.
First of all, his pressure is not that significant....and his attacking output is sub-par.
Add to fogarty is the off- season is the rebadging of someone like williams. Is our best small forward. Kicked our only goal in the 2nd half to win is the game.... but had spent majority of his time being rebadged as a defender and midfielder.  Why? 

Change the focus slightly to being more attacking, then essentially williams will kick you more goals than fogarty saves....and we are better off as a result.

Players get more joy out of attacking and kicking goals. As a club, we get more wins too. You may argue you don't get wins in finals playing that way (or enough wins) which might be so.....but ross lyon playing ultra defensive hasnt got any either.

So lets try to win games instead of trying not to lose them.....and pick a side that can do that.

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #12 –
We miss far too many goal scoring opportunities when we have the pressure on and are using up our petrol tickets.
Then we ease up and oppositions reel us in relatively easily. Nothing more soul destroying and we go to water.
We either have to build massive leads early or pace ourselves more evenly.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #13 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Every side loses the stoppages and clearances at some point but find other ways to win.
@madbluboy‍ Is part of our problem we are trying to win everything, instead of just focussing on maximising what we are best at?

Have we spent too much time focussed on our weaknesses, and that is having a negative effect on what we are good at?

i always thought that - when we were flying a couple of years back, the knock on us was that the oppo could score to easily on us (when it happenned).  so, voss spent the entire off season focussing on defending and defensive structures.   it seemed to knock all the attacking flair out of the players.   we have never got it back.  
 

Re: Lapses- Physical or Mental

Reply #14 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
We miss far too many goal scoring opportunities when we have the pressure on and are using up our petrol tickets.
Then we ease up and oppositions reel us in relatively easily. Nothing more soul destroying and we go to water.
We either have to build massive leads early or pace ourselves more evenly.

yep.  how often do we dominate, and you look at the scoreboard and we are only 3 or 4 goals up?  need to convert when we are dominating