AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

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Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #180 – October 03, 2023, 03:37:31 pm

Quote from: DJC on October 03, 2023, 03:02:49 pm

It's a bit like the "supporters" who continually criticised Plowman and who were called out by Weitering in his season review.

You can't let the naysayers get the better of you, the fans who do this are typically ball watchers. They see a lost contest and the effects of that but they are blind to the root cause.

For example, some were bagging Weiters after the prelim final because Daniher got some easy footy inside F50, but the fans ignore the events up the field that leaves Daniher with 40m of open space in front of him and a ball carrier delivering the pill without immediate pressure.

PS; I've heard a grab of audio from Harry that described sMurph and Plowman as the two players who made him feel most welcome and get quickly settled into the club making sure his needs and concerns were meet. Oddly, two players who copped a heap of stick from fans came across to Harry as the most inclusive to a new player team wise!

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #181 – October 03, 2023, 03:51:05 pm

Quote from: LP on October 03, 2023, 12:57:06 pm

Not really, I think it has been somewhat over-dramaticised by Carlton social media.

Stuff like that happens multiple times per round, maybe even more than once per game, and the problem as a "moment to manage" it is really an issue of umpiring consistency as much as player behaviour, sometimes they call it a penalty and other times they don't, the chance of a free is arbitrary!

We saw Cripps get belted high multiple times throughout the finals series, yet I recall him only receiving one free kick for his pain. If fans want to pile on some aspect of the finals that cost us, pile on that by asking more and more public questions about why the 195cm Mid cannot get free kicks for being hit in the head inside stoppages!

No one mentioned it until I brought it up.

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #182 – October 03, 2023, 03:59:54 pm

Why wasn't Plowman playing this year?

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #183 – October 03, 2023, 04:23:48 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on October 03, 2023, 03:51:05 pm

No one mentioned it until I brought it up.

Many of the events that fans complain about like the Cripps 50m are not all on the players, four umpires has not improved consistency, and after the GWS / Filth game you can't even claim it's improved the accuracy either.

While the umpiring remains so highly variable, I see it as unreasonable to expect any better from the players!

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #184 – October 03, 2023, 04:34:23 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on October 03, 2023, 03:59:54 pm

Why wasn't Plowman playing this year?

We started off going down the now horribly failed Young route.

Then as the AFL team hit the skids by Rnd 7 Plowman was already carrying / managing an injury, so I doubt was ever really in considerations when Kemp got the call up.

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #185 – October 03, 2023, 04:36:45 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on October 03, 2023, 03:59:54 pm

Why wasn't Plowman playing this year?

Because he had slowed down, his form had fallen away and he had been overtaken by younger, better players?

As Weiter's said, that doesn't detract from a 145 game career that included a top 3 finish in the B&F, a leadership role, the nickname of Mr Reliable, and the respect of his teammates.

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #186 – October 03, 2023, 04:48:57 pm

He got kicked out by better players. Yes.

That's what happens when you're the worst team and want to become the best team.
Everyone who said Plowman wasn't good enough were proven correct.

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #187 – October 03, 2023, 04:55:18 pm

It's relative though.
It wasn't that he wasn't good enough.
It's that other players were better.

No-one would argue that Kemp isn't good enough.
Yet he's currently not a first 23 selection... (which should change the next time we play)

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #188 – October 03, 2023, 04:59:08 pm

I doubt the real life MC is as cut and dry as fans want to suggest.

If I listened to fans and ignore the MC then I would know better. sMurph was a spud, Gibbs NBG, Cottrell a hack, Tuohy a panic merchant, Betts a sellout, Pitto a slug, TDK a moneypit. Martin, Marchbank and McGovern chandeliers. Boyd and Fogarty scared of shadows. Harry a coach killer.

But luckily I don't listen to fans!

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #189 – October 03, 2023, 05:01:18 pm

I'd say all players at Plowman's level have a decent career and then get relegated to the 2's, delisted, retire etc. And there's no shame in that. There were plenty of players that got moved on before he did. Only players at the Cripps, Dangerfield, Pendlebury etc. level get to bow out on their own terms. Nobody ever suggested he was a gun A grader. But he definitely played good footy for us and deserves to be remembered and discussed fondly. He placed top 10 in the B+F on four occasions, playing alongside Docherty, Liam Jones, Kade Simpson, Weitering, Adam Saad. He wasn't surrounded by mugs, and more than held his own.

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #190 – October 03, 2023, 05:03:02 pm

I think when a fan fails to give credit and recognition where it is due probably says more about the fan than the player.

For me it is that fan culture that must change for the club to quickly progress.

Go back and watch the replay of the Prelim, you can see the footage of Carlton fans turning in to Yertle the Turtle when the game tightens, sphincters too tight it seems.

Whether fans like it or not, that has an effect of players, the fans wear some of the blame.

Contrast that the the Filth fans starting the "Collingwood" chant when the game gets tight, they lift the players rather than stomp on them! As horrible as it is to admit, the Filth now have it all over us in this regard, but it never use to be this way. Back in the 70s, 80s and 90s, before our MC stupidly sold away our home, we use to be the intimidating crowd, at PP or The G!

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #191 – October 03, 2023, 05:54:58 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on October 03, 2023, 04:48:57 pm

He got kicked out by better players. Yes.

That's what happens when you're the worst team and want to become the best team.
Everyone who said Plowman wasn't good enough were proven correct.

His last 2 afl games were vs adelaide where we got stitched up and he was targeted to score through.

He was too small for a tall, too tall for a small, didn't really play tall, but defended well enough as he was a smart footballer with limited athletic capacity.

Hes also at the wrong age and Kemp and Cowan have gone past him.

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #192 – October 03, 2023, 05:56:04 pm

Quote from: LP on October 03, 2023, 04:59:08 pm

I doubt the real life MC is as cut and dry as fans want to suggest.

If I listened to fans and ignore the MC then I would know better. sMurph was a spud, Gibbs NBG, Cottrell a hack, Tuohy a panic merchant, Betts a sellout, Pitto a slug, TDK a moneypit. Martin, Marchbank and McGovern chandeliers. Boyd and Fogarty scared of shadows. Harry a coach killer.

But luckily I don't listen to fans!

Why are you on here then?

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #193 – October 03, 2023, 06:01:07 pm

Quote from: LP on October 03, 2023, 04:59:08 pm

I doubt the real life MC is as cut and dry as fans want to suggest.

If I listened to fans and ignore the MC then I would know better. sMurph was a spud, Gibbs NBG, Cottrell a hack, Tuohy a panic merchant, Betts a sellout, Pitto a slug, TDK a moneypit. Martin, Marchbank and McGovern chandeliers. Boyd and Fogarty scared of shadows. Harry a coach killer.

But luckily I don't listen to fans!

Martin, Marchbank and Gov are chandeliers. So is Cunningham.

Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

Reply #194 – October 03, 2023, 06:11:28 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on October 03, 2023, 04:48:57 pm

He got kicked out by better players. Yes.

That's what happens when you're the worst team and want to become the best team.
Everyone who said Plowman wasn't good enough were proven correct.

Not really.

That argument could be used to support the notion that folk who said Wayne Carey wasn't good enough were eventually proved correct.

Plowman's role was made more difficult by the type of footy we played over six of his eight seasons with us. He was unfairly blamed for losing the odd contest on the last line of defence when the errors were being committed by teammates up the ground.

He retired because his body is no longer up to the demands of AFL, not because he wasn't good enough.