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1
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Thats part of what I said, yep its all Democratic but thats not what Shawny was arguing imho, Allan didnt enter the election as Premier and as I suggested a lot of voters often vote for the personalities/leaders rather than knowing too much about the policies.
 For all Andrews failings as Premier of which there were many, varied and sordid he was an excellent political tactician and salesman and while Labor still would have bolted in to win the election, Labor voters got something different than what they voted for with Allan steering the ship after Andrews did his job and made sure they were re-elected.

Five out of the last ten Victorian Premiers became Premier without leading their party to an election. It's a common, routine practice that was even more common before Henry Bolte took a stranglehold on the job.  It's fairly regular at Commonwealth level too with at least a dozen PMs taking on the office of PM without leading their party to an election. The most recent are Fraser, Keating, Gillard, Rudd, Turnbull and Morrison.

Shawny can take heart from the fact the previous four Victorian Premiers who became Premier without leading their party to an election lost the next election.
3
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by ElwoodBlues1 -
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Jacinta Allan was democratically elected to Parliament as the member for Bendigo East but became Premier as she was chosen unopposed as Leader of the Labor Party after Andrews stepped down. She wasnt elected as Premier Elect initially which I think is the point Shawny was trying to make.

Once again, all State or Commonwealth leader are elected/appointed by their parties.  That's the Westminster democratic process in accordance with all Australian constitutions and conventions.  Jess Wilson was elected Leader of the Opposition by the Parliamentary Liberal Party, not the Victorian electorate.  That doesn't mean that she's not the democratically elected Leader of the Opposition.

Of course, the Greens take their leadership one step further and all party members get to vote for the leader.

There's plenty to criticise about Jacinta Allan without falsely claiming that she's not the democratically elected premier.
Thats part of what I said, yep its all Democratic but thats not what Shawny was arguing imho, Allan didnt enter the election as Premier and as I suggested a lot of voters often vote for the personalities/leaders rather than knowing too much about the policies.
 For all Andrews failings as Premier of which there were many, varied and sordid he was an excellent political tactician and salesman and while Labor still would have bolted in to win the election, Labor voters got something different than what they voted for with Allan steering the ship after Andrews did his job and made sure they were re-elected.
4
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: DJC – on


Off topic posts are the bane of a moderator's existence Shawny, but I'll let that one slide   :)

Isn't that an off topic post!

.....and this one.  :P

This one is too!

As you know Kruddler, the odd off topic post or two are fine, and can often help make a point or enliven a discussion.  It becomes a problem when the off topic posts take over the thread  :)
5
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: shawny – on
How many pages are we up to for the 'Red Trump' who runs a country on the other side of the world?  :-X Sorry DJC i know you get quite annoyed at any reference of the man but the irony is too much to ignore.

Off topic posts are the bane of a moderator's existence Shawny, but I'll let that one slide   :)

Isn't that an off topic post!

.....and this one.  :P
7
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Jacinta Allan was democratically elected to Parliament as the member for Bendigo East but became Premier as she was chosen unopposed as Leader of the Labor Party after Andrews stepped down. She wasnt elected as Premier Elect initially which I think is the point Shawny was trying to make.

Once again, all State or Commonwealth leader are elected/appointed by their parties.  That's the Westminster democratic process in accordance with all Australian constitutions and conventions.  Jess Wilson was elected Leader of the Opposition by the Parliamentary Liberal Party, not the Victorian electorate.  That doesn't mean that she's not the democratically elected Leader of the Opposition.

Of course, the Greens take their leadership one step further and all party members get to vote for the leader.

There's plenty to criticise about Jacinta Allan without falsely claiming that she's not the democratically elected premier.
8
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by shawny -
Quote from: Thryleon – on
So turn the heat down we can do what vicpol did and buy some machete bins?  :P

Shawny and I have gone head to head on a few football related matters, but none of it is personal.  Political tends to be a bit more personal, because frankly, government action (or inaction) impacts everyone a little differently depending on what walk of life you and your loved ones are in.

Personally, a major government failing, is spending a lot of money, and effort to give the appearance of doing something, without actually achieving anything.  Lots of it motivated by optics, and less about outcomes.  The machete bins are a fan favourite of mine, because they represent my previous argument better than I can make it.  A lot of money pilfered away reactively to a couple of incidents, and an exercise in tokenism at best. 

Not to enforce change, not to enforce any sort of law enforcement.  Whats the difference between a machete, an axe and a meat cleaver?  Hell, it could be a golf club or a cricket bat too.  Degrees of injury for each item, and also deadliness, but ultimatley the person wielding it is the issue (yes that applies to guns, but guns are a little more regulated than any other item ive mentioned here).

This is government agnostic too and event agnostic.  There were degrees of stupidity regarding all things government, but lately things have gotten a bit ridiculous.

Agree Thryleon.  Once you get personal it's the final sign you have lost the discussion.

On the machete bins there are some on here that will still argue they were a smart move.  :-[    
9
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by shawny -
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: LP – on

I understand this thread was created to enable @shawny to post his political views here without cross posting on pretty much every thread. No different to the RedTrump thread, of the EV thread, they are nothing more than a filing cabinet? But even so, that doesn't give license to anyone to post fake news or false claims without opportunity for others to redress.

So how are we being intolerant?
Its a football forum where fake news, rumours and innuendo reside comfortably and multiply in number because its all part of the landscape of public forums. It seems we can all agree and disagree on football matters and none of it is taken too seriously and posters move on but Politics seems to be a sensitive topic that is extra divisive.
FWIW I enjoy Shawny postings and see nothing fake about what he draws attention too and Political Parties do get elected in many cases imo based on the personalities/leadership/selling of rather than the policies.
eg How many people could tell you what One Nations major Policies were? but I bet they could tell you who is their leader and what was his/her previous employment...
Jacinta Allan was democratically elected to Parliament as the member for Bendigo East but became Premier as she was chosen unopposed as Leader of the Labor Party after Andrews stepped down. She wasnt elected as Premier Elect initially which I think is the point Shawny was trying to make.

EB....... halleluiah

Thank you very much for articulating that so nicely.

The Allan position was a very minor point in a much deeper discussion that as usual got hijacked to avoid the question at hand. Only DJC had the balls to reply to the original post on the $15B dollars of our states tax paying money being washed away. However i did receive replies about how I'm into conspiracy theories, social media fantasies, fake news and finally that i could become the next Dezi Freeman. LP latest reply or should i say word salad of dribble that only he knows WTF hes talking about is a perfect example of how to divert, sidetrack and say anything to avoid the topic raised.

How many pages are we up to for the 'Red Trump' who runs a country on the other side of the world?  :-X Sorry DJC i know you get quite annoyed at any reference of the man but the irony is too much to ignore.

10
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by Thryleon -
So turn the heat down we can do what vicpol did and buy some machete bins?  :P

Shawny and I have gone head to head on a few football related matters, but none of it is personal.  Political tends to be a bit more personal, because frankly, government action (or inaction) impacts everyone a little differently depending on what walk of life you and your loved ones are in.

Personally, a major government failing, is spending a lot of money, and effort to give the appearance of doing something, without actually achieving anything.  Lots of it motivated by optics, and less about outcomes.  The machete bins are a fan favourite of mine, because they represent my previous argument better than I can make it.  A lot of money pilfered away reactively to a couple of incidents, and an exercise in tokenism at best. 

Not to enforce change, not to enforce any sort of law enforcement.  Whats the difference between a machete, an axe and a meat cleaver?  Hell, it could be a golf club or a cricket bat too.  Degrees of injury for each item, and also deadliness, but ultimatley the person wielding it is the issue (yes that applies to guns, but guns are a little more regulated than any other item ive mentioned here).

This is government agnostic too and event agnostic.  There were degrees of stupidity regarding all things government, but lately things have gotten a bit ridiculous.