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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


So our list management strategy is seeing who wants to come to us and work in with what we have.

....and if nobody wants to come to us??

This is where the draft cuts out the 'want' side of things.
If they end up wanting out, then so be it, but you've got something of value you can trade.
If not, then problem solved.

"What if no-one wants to come to us..."
Seriously?

You do some really good, deep analysis and then you pull out these 'extreme' conclusions.
At the end of the day it's all a guess and personal opinion, embellished with a bit of bias as to how we would do things.
The draft has it's place, but that place loses its importance the deeper into the draft you go.
Recruiting has a lot of elements and there comes a point where one element becomes preferable over another.
Talls are always risky through the draft.
You might draft 4 or 5 for nil result
Yet a look at young players with a couple of years experience and you have a better idea of the player they might be.

The what if game:

What if we topped up two years ago and won a flag?

What if we topped up with B grade recruits ala Richmond post 3 peat, and then bottomed out like they have with everyone wanting out to greener pastures so they can rebuild anew?

What if we hadnt sacked Ratten and appointed Malthouse?

What if we hadnt let Eddie Betts leave?

What if SOS hadnt drafted Finbar O Dwyer?

What if Baldilocks hadnt had a falling out with SOS?

What if my grandmother had testicles?

Its all well and good to hypothesize, but we have built a layer of kids that can carry us forward now players have started dropping off from the heady days of 2 half good seasons.   We recruited ready mades in Cerra, Hewett, Saad, Mcgovern and Williams.  It got us into also ran status, and whilst we started believing we were good enough, it didnt come together for long enough before this season to really make us believe we could win it. 

Why?  IMHO it was dumb luck.  We put ourselves in the frame, but we still had too much left to too few, and were never really dominant looking like we could win from anywhere.  It happend a handfull of times, but not as regularly as Collingwood 2023 who you just knew would find a way, nor as regularly as Brisbane over the last 5 years who have played as many poor games as we have really accomplished ones.  Partly through injury.  So many players missing entire seasons from our team.  Im not hoping we dont lose one, im hoping its someone we care less about these days and wont impact our fortunes greatly.

The kids dont look like they will win us much, but there are a few prospective 200 gamers in that young lot, and between HOF and what we think Dean will be, our key position defenders are set for the next 10 years. 
4
Ladies Lounge / AFLW List Management 2026
Last post by crashlander -
Yes, it is that time of year again, when players get moved on.
We've announced 3 changes today:
[1] Tarni Brown: daughter of Collingwood's ..., we traded for Tarni a couple of drafts back. She played most games last season, but has a 'medical condition' (unspecified), which left her off the park this years. She has decided to retire, as she doesn't think she can perform at the highest level any longer.
[2] Eliza Wood: our VFL Captain this year, she was promoted when Kerryn Peterson took a year off to have a baby. She didn't manage a senior game this year, mainly die to senior injury. I have no idea if she will go back to our VFL side or not, as her knee will take some time to recover from.
[3] Charlotte Brewer: another SSP selection, replacing Eliza Wood when she got injured. Charlotte didn't play a game this year.

It will be interesting to see if Kerryn Peterson returns. She had her baby in August.

Already there have been rumours of young talent from elsewhere looking to come here.
5
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by ElwoodBlues1 -
From Foxsports commenting on coaches in the hotseat and ranking them. Like myself and a few other others they are not sharing the enthusiasm for the player ins/outs total result.
1. Michael Voss (Carlton)

After coming awfully close to being dismissed this year, there irrefutably isn’t anyone on a hotter seat in the competition than Voss, who was allowed to coach into the final year of his current contract in 2026. The Blues under Voss built to a 13-win 2023 campaign that netted a preliminary final berth, before stagnating last year and regressing to nine wins in 2025. But is it finals or bust for the four-year Carlton coach? Should that be the pass mark? Off-season list changes — with Charlie Curnow, Tom De Koning and Jack Silvagni all notably departing — complicate matters, as it’s hard to argue Carlton improved its personnel for Voss to utilise. The Blues did gain Will Hayward and Ollie Florent and will hopefully have a healthy Jagga Smith back in the fold, but that still might not be enough in the short term to save Voss.
6
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Lods – on
I'm not sure why you are dwelling on the past.
It's gone.
It has no bearing on the present.
We have different people running the show.
I suspect with a bit more of an idea.

But the players you mention there were traded in because most of our premiership side were aging or had retired an we had diddly squat in terms of draft picks due to penalties and trade value....and free agency wasn't a thing then.
Added to that a few of those mentioned were more than serviceable and in a better side would have been valuable.

I'm trying to point out multiple things.

1. Just because people have a job and a plan, doesn't mean it will be successful.
2. We have a history of making wrong calls and/or going in the wrong direction.
3. What we 'want' doesn't really matter. Its what other players want....and if nobody wants to come to us, this current plan is pointless.

Ask your average joe on whether carlton will improve or drop this year. Betting odds give you an idea if you don't want to run your own poll.

Given the above, if you are looking at changing clubs, would you choose us?

Before your answer....
Who is choosing Essendon right now?
Like us, players are wanting out of Essendon, including their captain. There was rumours that our own captain wouldn't be opposed to a trade. What if this year it becomes a reality?

OK, forget about the last part and go back to points 1-3, why is this time different?
Thats all i'm asking.

People seem supremely confident in the current direction.
Why?

IMO, its simple and falls into 2 categories.
1. Navy coloured glasses.
2. Because the alternative is too depressing to contemplate.


So why bring up the past?
1. ....because talk about the present gets shutdown as a work in progress
2. ....because talk about the future is pure speculation
3. .....thats all thats left to prove a point!
7
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


"What if no-one wants to come to us..."
Seriously?

You do some really good, deep analysis and then you pull out these 'extreme' conclusions.
At the end of the day it's all a guess and personal opinion, embellished with a bit of bias as to how we would do things.
The draft has it's place, but that place loses its importance the deeper into the draft you go.
Recruiting has a lot of elements and there comes a point where one element becomes preferable over another.
Talls are always risky through the draft.
You might draft 4 or 5 for nil result
Yet a look at young players with a couple of years experience and you have a better idea of the player they might be.

Refer to my previous comments. Am i the only one that remembers the previous 2 decades?

2003 trades.....
Heath Scotland
Daniel Harford
Corey McGrath
Brett Johnson
Digby Morrell
David Teague
David Clarke

2004...
Troy Longmiu
Callum Chambers

2005....
Jason Saddington

This is the type of talent we could get our hands on or should i say, the only ones that would come to us.
Why didn't we recruit gun players if it was so easy?
Do i need to show your more years to prove a point??

I'm not sure why you are dwelling on the past.
It's gone.
It has no bearing on the present.
We have different people running the show.
I suspect with a bit more of an idea.

But the players you mention there were traded in because most of our premiership side were aging or had retired an we had diddly squat in terms of draft picks due to penalties and trade value....and free agency wasn't a thing then.
Added to that a few of those mentioned were more than serviceable and in a better side would have been valuable.

8
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


So our list management strategy is seeing who wants to come to us and work in with what we have.

....and if nobody wants to come to us??

This is where the draft cuts out the 'want' side of things.
If they end up wanting out, then so be it, but you've got something of value you can trade.
If not, then problem solved.

"What if no-one wants to come to us..."
Seriously?

You do some really good, deep analysis and then you pull out these 'extreme' conclusions.
At the end of the day it's all a guess and personal opinion, embellished with a bit of bias as to how we would do things.
The draft has it's place, but that place loses its importance the deeper into the draft you go.
Recruiting has a lot of elements and there comes a point where one element becomes preferable over another.
Talls are always risky through the draft.
You might draft 4 or 5 for nil result
Yet a look at young players with a couple of years experience and you have a better idea of the player they might be.

Refer to my previous comments. Am i the only one that remembers the previous 2 decades?

2003 trades.....
Heath Scotland
Daniel Harford
Corey McGrath
Brett Johnson
Digby Morrell
David Teague
David Clarke

2004...
Troy Longmiu
Callum Chambers

2005....
Jason Saddington

This is the type of talent we could get our hands on or should i say, the only ones that would come to us.
Why didn't we recruit gun players if it was so easy?
Do i need to show your more years to prove a point??



9
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on
If you're a young KPP with a bit of ability you'd probably look at Weitering and McKay and think to yourself ...it wouldn't be too bad being a second fiddle to those two, knowing that if you were any good you'd be the 'number one' down the track.
Guys that see that as a challenge rather than a deterrent are the ones you actually want.

So our list management strategy is seeing who wants to come to us and work in with what we have.

....and if nobody wants to come to us??

This is where the draft cuts out the 'want' side of things.
If they end up wanting out, then so be it, but you've got something of value you can trade.
If not, then problem solved.

"What if no-one wants to come to us..."
Seriously?

You do some really good, deep analysis and then you pull out these 'extreme' conclusions.
At the end of the day it's all a guess and personal opinion, embellished with a bit of bias as to how we would do things.
The draft has it's place, but that place loses its importance the deeper into the draft you go.
Recruiting has a lot of elements and there comes a point where one element becomes preferable over another.
Talls are always risky through the draft.
You might draft 4 or 5 for nil result
Yet a look at young players with a couple of years experience and you have a better idea of the player they might be.
10
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Lods – on
If you're a young KPP with a bit of ability you'd probably look at Weitering and McKay and think to yourself ...it wouldn't be too bad being a second fiddle to those two, knowing that if you were any good you'd be the 'number one' down the track.
Guys that see that as a challenge rather than a deterrent are the ones you actually want.

So our list management strategy is seeing who wants to come to us and work in with what we have.

....and if nobody wants to come to us??

This is where the draft cuts out the 'want' side of things.
If they end up wanting out, then so be it, but you've got something of value you can trade.
If not, then problem solved.