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Topic: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles (Read 27659 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #90 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Mate I dont quite get your theory. There has been games with 2 rucks that we have won and lost so I am not sure there is a pattern. We have also lost with one ruckman (eg NM). See below:
Rnd 5 Freo Win Kruezer and Phillips (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 6 Ess Win Kruezer and Phillips (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 7 Coll Win Kruezer  (1 Ruck Played)
Rnd 8 PA Win Kruezer  (1 Ruck Played)
Rnd 9 NM Loss Gorringe  (1 Rucks Played)
Rnd 10 Geel Win Kruezer and Gorringe (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 11 Bris Win Kruezer and Gorringe (2 Rucks Played) 
The Rnd 12, 14, 15, 16 we have lost every game with 2 rucks playing

Wouldnt get carried away with Kruezer vs Port......Trengove isnt exactly top shelf ruck quality and we got lucky Lobbe and Ryder were out....

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #91 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Mate I dont quite get your theory. There has been games with 2 rucks that we have won and lost so I am not sure there is a pattern. We have also lost with one ruckman (eg NM). See below:
Rnd 5 Freo Win Kruezer and Phillips (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 6 Ess Win Kruezer and Phillips (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 7 Coll Win Kruezer  (1 Ruck Played)
Rnd 8 PA Win Kruezer  (1 Ruck Played)
Rnd 9 NM Loss Gorringe  (1 Rucks Played)
Rnd 10 Geel Win Kruezer and Gorringe (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 11 Bris Win Kruezer and Gorringe (2 Rucks Played) 
The Rnd 12, 14, 15, 16 we have lost every game with 2 rucks playing

Two rucks/one key forward. You haven't seen the pattern yet? When did we start winning, when we picked the 2nd key forward, when did we play even better, when we played one ruck. It's one of the few things that went ok last year too. When did we go back to struggling to kick a score again, when we went back to two rucks and one key forward. Any part of that you've missed? Gorringe, while not that good, is as much a forward as a ruck. He actually took marks and kicked a couple of goals. As a ruck he wasn't very good.

The two rucks together have generally played terrible. There's no argument there. For years Kreuzer has been at his best when he has been on his own. I just don't know what part of that people miss. People watch footy week in/week out and miss the obvious.

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #92 –
Perhaps its not the fact we are playing 2 rucks that is the problem. Perhaps it is the blokes playing as ruckman that are the problem.

Same problem we have with our key forwards, that is, they are just not very good at it!

EDIT:
Nic Nat and Cox both got AA status playing in the same team. It can work if you have the right people for it to work.

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #93 –
Quote from: laj on
Two rucks/one key forward. You haven't seen the pattern yet? When did we start winning, when we picked the 2nd key forward, when did we play even better, when we played one ruck. It's one of the few things that went ok last year too. When did we go back to struggling to kick a score again, when we went back to two rucks and one key forward. Any part of that you've missed? Gorringe, while not that good, is as much a forward as a ruck. He actually took marks and kicked a couple of goals. As a ruck he wasn't very good.

The two rucks together have generally played terrible. There's no argument there. For years Kreuzer has been at his best when he has been on his own. I just don't know what part of that people miss. People watch footy week in/week out and miss the obvious.

That's not really true. Back when we were winning, we were 6th in hitouts.  We've dropped to 12th now.

The two ruckmen combination isn't working as well now as it did earlier in the season.  The main difference I can see is that, while Phillips spent a lot of time on the bench, Kreuzer stayed on the ground.  Now both of our rucks are each spending a third of the game on the bench.  Of course, our better ruck performance when we were winning could be down to the fact that we played two key forwards for many of those games  :)
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #94 –
Hasn't Phillips been injured for a number of weeks since our winning streak???

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #95 –
Quote from: kruddler on
Perhaps its not the fact we are playing 2 rucks that is the problem. Perhaps it is the blokes playing as ruckman that are the problem.

Same problem we have with our key forwards, that is, they are just not very good at it!

EDIT:
Nic Nat and Cox both got AA status playing in the same team. It can work if you have the right people for it to work.
Finally! Our rucks and forwards just aren't much chop and our Mids are shallow at best. Played out of our skins V Geelong and Port.

I love Kreuze but he is over valued imo, isnt doing what he used to do which was be that Mumford type extra mid that would bullock through the stoppages.

The let go of Jacobs and Betts are quite possibly a couple of the dumbest things the club has done in recent times along with the recruitment of big-money Daisy.

It will take time to repair the damage but we are on the right track. Our back half is top-shelf imo.

Hope KJ shows a little as i believe he is worth retaining, hes 21 ffs

Welcome back Charlie

Bucks is definitely playing for a spot on the senior list and Nicky G for his career.

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #96 –
I like this team - I like it alot I believe they will give more than Daisy, Walker, Everitt and Casboult.

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #97 –
Quote from: pinot on
I like this team - I like it alot I believe they will give more than Daisy, Walker, Everitt and Casboult.
We can hope so. 3 out of the 4 of those are definitely more of the past than of the future. Maybe even Casboult will be obsolete when guys like McKay and Charlie Curnow start being reliable senior players.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #98 –
The eagles run very hard and set up well defensively but I don't think our kids have much to worry aboutphysically.  Good game to play kids in I reckon
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #99 –
Quote from: Professer E on
The eagles run very hard and set up well defensively but I don't think our kids have much to worry aboutphysically.  Good game to play kids in I reckon

They won't know how to set up for our forwardline this week....because we don't even know how we are going to setup! Could very well work in our favour.

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #100 –
The one or two ruckman argument should surely depend on the opposition we are facing.
We are not a good enough side that we can set up and say "this is us, it's up to you to match up on us"
Sometimes it will be to our advantage to play just one ruck and stack up elsewhere.
At other times it will be a recipe for disaster.

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #101 –
Quote from: Peter Brady on
The one or two ruckman argument should surely depend on the opposition we are facing.
We are not a good enough side that we can set up and say "this is us, it's up to you to match up on us"
Sometimes it will be to our advantage to play just one ruck and stack up elsewhere.
At other times it will be a recipe for disaster.
Good call PB.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #102 –
I think playing one forward is a bigger issue than 1 or 2 rucks... probably could have played 1 ruck this week, given West Coast only have 1.

Our ruck duo need to contribute tomorrow.  If they can't beat Lycett...

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #103 –
Hope to be wrong but think this will go down as the "Colosseum Game"
 

Re: Rd 17 : Pre Game polite and refined discourse - Blues v Eagles

Reply #104 –
Quote from: BlueAvenger on
The let go of Jacobs and Betts are quite possibly a couple of the dumbest things the club has done in recent times along with the recruitment of big-money Daisy.

Betts wanted to go home and Adelaide paid him handsomely to do so, he won't be playing when we are competitive again so it was no long term loss.
Thomas was a good recruit but we probably paid overs in dollar terms, he was suspect with injury at the time and I doubt that any other club would have paid what we did, at least we didn't trade anything of value for him I guess.
The critical mistake was losing Jacobs, but our management of the time preferred both Warnock and Hampson to him so his wanting out shouldn't have come as any surprise.
We've made some shocking list management decisions over the journey, which combined with our woeful recruiting has left us where we are today.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.