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Topic: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating (Read 56430 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #90 –
You don't like Yarrans chances Roy ????
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #91 –
The best thing for us would be if Big Levi can have a breakout game and kick 5-6.
You never know where the self belief he will get from a game like that might take him.

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #92 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Quote from: Jean-Claude on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Agreed.  No player should be too good to get their fitness back in the twos.  Fark me, Daisy Thomas did it at Pie land trying to come back last year, and even Luke Hodge was required to do the same thing.

Culturally speaking, we would benefit greatly from him coming back through the twos, as it sends a message to the group.  No one is a walk up start, and dont take your position for granted.

Agree. He is a good enough player to just walk back in but we have send a message, however I still can't see him playing twos. The powers that be wont let it happen and they will want him there against the Tigers if he is close enough.

What's the message? Who is Judd keeping out of the side who deserves his spot? Bootsma?

Thats not it.

There are multiple reasons:

1.  Setting an equality of treatment to eliminate resentment amongst the players.
2.  Setting an example regarding what levels players are to achieve at "reserve" level before they get opportunities at senior level.
3.  Making sure we are not carrying Judd for any period of the game.  Sure, he might give you ten minutes of stirling stuff that will be the difference between winning and losing, but if we have to carry him and play with in effect a man down in order just to have him out on the park, thats a loss.
4.  Keeping the pressure off Judd so when he does return he isnt "the man" and the players will hopefully help him come back.

Culture, it takes roughly 100 actions to build it, and it only takes one (such as giving a fading star preferential treatment) to really destroy it.

If it happens that Judd works his way back into full fitness just training then so be it, but there is no practise like match practise and we have not see the best of C. Judd for a couple of seasons now (or when we have, it has been sparingly).

I wouldnt force him to come back through the VFL, but I would at least contemplate doing it, and much of the decision will be made by how the senior team is travelling without him before we make that call IMHO.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #93 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Thats not it.

There are multiple reasons:

1.  Setting an equality of treatment to eliminate resentment amongst the players.
2.  Setting an example regarding what levels players are to achieve at "reserve" level before they get opportunities at senior level.
3.  Making sure we are not carrying Judd for any period of the game.  Sure, he might give you ten minutes of stirling stuff that will be the difference between winning and losing, but if we have to carry him and play with in effect a man down in order just to have him out on the park, thats a loss.
4.  Keeping the pressure off Judd so when he does return he isnt "the man" and the players will hopefully help him come back.

Not sure how you lose when you win but I'm interested in the practicalities of all this rather than a fluffy ideal. Rigid rules that defy logic and leave everyone scratching their head at some decisions aren't building culture, they're allowing process to trump common sense.

Who would Judd keep out of the side that deserves his spot? White, Bootsma, McInnes?

(BTW, if mods are reading, this should probably be in it's own thread as it's not relevant to the PA game and an interesting enough topic/scenario to warrant it)

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #94 –
What if he was to resume one week prior to when he's supposed to resume with a half of football in the twos? Waite did it.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #95 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Thats not it.

There are multiple reasons:

1.  Setting an equality of treatment to eliminate resentment amongst the players.
2.  Setting an example regarding what levels players are to achieve at "reserve" level before they get opportunities at senior level.
3.  Making sure we are not carrying Judd for any period of the game.  Sure, he might give you ten minutes of stirling stuff that will be the difference between winning and losing, but if we have to carry him and play with in effect a man down in order just to have him out on the park, thats a loss.
4.  Keeping the pressure off Judd so when he does return he isnt "the man" and the players will hopefully help him come back.

Not sure how you lose when you win but I'm interested in the practicalities of all this rather than a fluffy ideal. Rigid rules that defy logic and leave everyone scratching their head at some decisions aren't building culture, they're allowing process to trump common sense.

Who would Judd keep out of the side that deserves his spot? White, Bootsma, McInnes?

(BTW, if mods are reading, this should probably be in it's own thread as it's not relevant to the PA game and an interesting enough topic/scenario to warrant it)

Not sure how we lose if we win?  Fair enough, but what if we dont win and Judd wasn't ready to give us anything but his last couple of seasons average performances where he was barely racking up 15 - 20 touches and most of it under duress? 

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=386

Scroll down and look at his averages through the year.  Statistically and based on output, Judd's 2013 was one of his poorest ever seasons (rivalled probably only by 2012) and the Judd we get back at first will be of a lesser than this standard until he gets a good run of games into him (something that has not occurred for quite a while now).   I know how good he can be where I said what I said.

Think back to the drawn game vs Essendon in 2011 in round 4 where Henderson was played before he was ready.  Did that decision cost us the game?  If so, would we have stood a better chance to win without Henderson?  I would answer yes to that question and Henderson shouldnt have played.  The thing is, better planning would have allowed us to not be hindsight champions, and instead we would have simply stated he wasnt ready and moved on.

You cant simply question the thought process using Bootsma or Mccinnes as an example.  They are not midfielders and Judd is.

What if we dropped Mitch Robinson for Judd's inclusion?  We dont get class from Robinson, but what we do get is effort, and contest after contest.  Tom Bell?  Nick Graham? Cripps? Menzel? David Ellard?  Cachia? Chris Yarran (not cemented in our best 22 yet)?  Contributers all of them in their own right, but no where near Judd's class.  I suppose the question that you are asking, is if Judd's class is enough to compensate for the effort the aformentioned bring to a performance.  You could argue a case for him to do it off the subs bench but then I ask you the following question surrounding practicalities.  What if we lose a man early, and Judd then has to play 3 or 4 quarters without being sure if he is even ready to?

What do we lose with him coming back through the reserves vs what do we have to gain?  If Judd is not in great form and questionably at full fitness its probably a stalemate at best at this point of his career as we have seen based on his last couple of seasons that he is now a cameo player and no longer the main event aside from very few matches or worse still very few quarters.  Meanwhile what we definately gain is a player the calibre of Chris Judd showing the way for any players trying to break into our best 22 and that is something that we have not had for a long long time.

The opportunity cost of playing Judd first up, is simply one less game we get into our youngsters that we are going to rely on moving forward.  The only caveate on that, is that they need to be ready to play AFL and just given games for the sake of it.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #96 –
Quote from: sandsmere on
You don't like Yarrans chances Roy ????

Mick has talked about our lack of midfield rotations last year with playing the. 3 small forwards in the same side.
So I think we should not be playing Yarran, Garlett and Menzel in the same side. Yarran for me is a forward first although he did play well on Dangerfield before he was injured.

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #97 –
Haven't posted in a while but here is my predictions (more like wishes) for Sundy night:

Hendo will kick a bag (5-6)
Everitt will cement his place in our backline.
Murph will burst out, starting the season in AA form.
Cripps gets a game and shows something.
Watson proves he's the real deal.
Daisy makes us proud.
The likes of Gibbs, Garlett, Yaz and Robbo turn up to play
Levi runs through Monfries, contending for MOTY.
Blues win by 23pts
Or.......
My main man Touhy kicks a 60m bomb on the siren and Blues win by 4pts!

Optimistic? Maybe...

CARN THE BLUES!!
Why did the Carlton FC fall? So they could learn to pick themselves up.

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #98 –
Hey all happy 2014
I will be as always full of optimism.
We will beat port 1-39 good money!
I hope MM has got his game plan working, cause that's what it's all about.
Majority have said we will fall this year I disagree, we will be better than last year & Sunday is when we start making it happen!

Go blues!

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #99 –
B; Henderon Watson Tuohy
HB: Simpson Jamison Walker
C: Thomas Murphy Curnow
HF: Yarran Waite Garlett
F: Robinson Kruezer Gibbs

R: Warnock Bell Mclean

Int From: Cripps, Everitt, Holman McInnes, Lucas, Menzel, Ellard

Didnt see much of Holman in the pre-season, Hope Lachie plays Forward.
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #100 –
No Bootsma or Casboult.

Bet Holman, Lucas and McInnes end up being the emergencies. Unless Hendo doesn't come up then McInnes might get a call up.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #101 –
Quote from: Baggers on
No Bootsma or Casboult.

Bet Holman, Lucas and McInnes end up being the emergencies. Unless Hendo doesn't come up then McInnes might get a call up.

No Scotland either. Good signs for the kids. Like the look of this squad.

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #102 –
Quote from: shadesy on
B; Henderon Watson Tuohy
HB: Simpson Jamison Walker
C: Thomas Murphy Curnow
HF: Yarran Waite Garlett
F: Robinson Kruezer Gibbs

R: Warnock Bell Mclean

Int From: Cripps, Everitt, Holman McInnes, Lucas, Menzel, Ellard

Didnt see much of Holman in the pre-season, Hope Lachie plays Forward.

Not surprised that Scotland is not in the best 18. Bit surprised he is not in ahead of Ellard and Holman in the best 25 though. Ditto Cachia!

Of that i'd have Everitt, Menzel and McInness on the bench with Cripps the sub.

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #103 –
Quote from: shadesy on
B; Henderon Watson Tuohy
HB: Simpson Jamison Walker
C: Thomas Murphy Curnow
HF: Yarran Waite Garlett
F: Robinson Kruezer Gibbs

R: Warnock Bell Mclean

Int From: Cripps, Everitt, Holman McInnes, Lucas, Menzel, Ellard

Didnt see much of Holman in the pre-season, Hope Lachie plays Forward.

I'd like to see that but I think he may play back mainly (covering Watson), at least to see how he goes. I think, like plenty of others, that getting Lachie forward must be one of our priorities.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: R1 vs Port Adelaide @ Etihad - Pre-Match Postulating

Reply #104 –
Wow didn't notice Scotto missing but he'll still play his part this year IMO.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!