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Topic: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle (Read 17565 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #60
Now we are trying to play an outdated Hawks gameplan which relies on keeping possession and uncontested marks.  They key now is to score through the corridor.

That is the key to winning games in May.   Not sure how it holds up in Finals or against top sides.  Happy for the aints, frockers and port to win when they are running in front of the footy, through the corridor, against bottom sides......  not going to get you far when the whips are cracking in the big games

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #61
Some people have been bagging Graham....

The mid field, Kreuzer included, was collectively terrible after quarter time. Kreuzer simply stopped playing the ball and was too focused on big Sandi.... the set ups were terrible given Sandi was having a party in there.

Next time we play Freo, I'd play Korchek if we can....Kreuzer gets overwhelmed by the size disparity.

I thought Gibbs again was putrid. Shocking, lazy disposal and he squibbed on one marking contest which would have seen a shot on goal 40 out.

Would trade him in a heart beat for a good deal.

Plenty of numbers but as s senior, highly skilled player....very, very lazy.

Graham, other than yesterday, has been entirely serviceable.

Our game plan is simply too, too slow. Gives us big stats but stops us scoring. Bolts needs to dish up better.... but that said if you can't win or even touch the ball in the centre no chance in a game....

SPS has gone missing since his break out game. Need to find a role for him in which he can get him involved or put him in the 2s to get some hand on leather time....

I thought our intensity was  way off after quarter time - it reminded me of days gone by when we would play 20 minutes of good footy then think the job was done.....

That said, injuries didn't help but at least Jones will now get a well deserved run.

Time to bring back Smedts and Palmer imo. Rest a few of the kids on a rotation.

Any wtf is happening with SoJ's kicking - looks more spooked than Levi did at his worst!

Very good post IMO.  With the exception of your comments on Graham.  I think he's VFL level.

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #62
Reading that question marks around some of our kids is laughable - spuds was even used for Charlie Curnow, Fisher and Cuningham. Haha...what a joke!

These kids ARE the future. They need the AFL body, maturity and development so give them some time and space for crying out loud!

We have plenty of spuds on our list, and these boys mentioned among other good kids, are not them!
x2
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #63
Once Lyon woke up and figured out he needed to stop our "everything old is new again" short kicking style, the tide was always going to turn. Obviously other factors (e.g injury) were at play.

I'll be curious to see what happens in coming weeks when opposition teams adopt the same tactics. That style of play requires almost innate understanding between team mates, very precise skills, and good speed over the first 10-20 m to get some separation from your opponent. Once the other team figures out we play this way, they will always go man on man.

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #64
Once Lyon woke up and figured out he needed to stop our "everything old is new again" short kicking style, the tide was always going to turn. Obviously other factors (e.g injury) were at play.

I'll be curious to see what happens in coming weeks when opposition teams adopt the same tactics. That style of play requires almost innate understanding between team mates, very precise skills, and good speed over the first 10-20 m to get some separation from your opponent. Once the other team figures out we play this way, they will always go man on man.
Too add to that, it also appears that it works quite well when moving the ball from defence thru to the centre of the ground, but we really struggled after quarter time to move the ball forward of centre. Opposition sides have plenty of time to man up and flood back, so finding a target is almost impossible. So we bomb it in, and the opposition [Johnson yesterday] just take intercept marks.

You still need fast link players who can carry the ball through the midfield to put the backmen out of position and make this plan work, otherwise we will continue to score 10 goals at best per week like we have for 3 years and we will win 5-6 games at best. We are struggling to fill these roles at the moment, as the kids don't have the tank to play that role consistently.

I am optimistic about the ability of the last 2 draft crops, but until we can turn at least one into a genuine, consistent goal kicking forward threat, and we trade in at least 1 established forward, we will keep bouncing along the bottom like we have for 3.5 years.

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #65
Umpiring cost us.  They were cheating.  We still have some spuds:

Nick graham.  Awful.
Charlie Curnow- Big question mark
Cunningham- no.
Not sure about zac fisher either.

Gibbs. 34 touches, 6 tackles, had no effect on game.

Stupid game plan of keepings off.  Yes it limits thrashings but we can't score.

Disappointing effort.

Is this a troll account?

It can't be serious surely? ;D
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #66
The major problem against Freo ,we had 2 players injured ,our forward line apart from Casboult was young and not strong enough.We  need more  strong bodies around the ball .Apart From Cripps there is noone.
Maybe Kerridge should have played ,and maybe Jones should have played .Hindsight is a wonderful thing.We need time for their bodies to develop,it takes a few  pre seasons.I can see a light at the end of the tunnel        

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #67
Too add to that, it also appears that it works quite well when moving the ball from defence thru to the centre of the ground, but we really struggled after quarter time to move the ball forward of centre. Opposition sides have plenty of time to man up and flood back, so finding a target is almost impossible. So we bomb it in, and the opposition [Johnson yesterday] just take intercept marks.

You still need fast link players who can carry the ball through the midfield to put the backmen out of position and make this plan work, otherwise we will continue to score 10 goals at best per week like we have for 3 years and we will win 5-6 games at best. We are struggling to fill these roles at the moment, as the kids don't have the tank to play that role consistently.

I am optimistic about the ability of the last 2 draft crops, but until we can turn at least one into a genuine, consistent goal kicking forward threat, and we trade in at least 1 established forward, we will keep bouncing along the bottom like we have for 3.5 years.

Yes, Nick Riewoldt was a guest commentator on one of the televised games this weekend, and mentioned that all teams these days are spending lots of time at training practicing the fast break, chain-of-handballs from a stoppage / congested area. I would assume because players are so fit and well drilled these days that catching them off guard or on the fast break gives the best chance of scoring.

Every game plan / style has its strengths and weaknesses, and with the right players and right coaching, they can all be made to work and be successful. Every team needs to be able to play a few different ways, and needs to be able to change things up to suit the circumstances.

Whatever "educational" motivation might be behind Bolton's ideas, my concern is that he coaches this way because that's what he feels comfortable with and that's what he learned from Clarko, and that it's not the best way going forward. I hope I'm wrong, but I do get worried sometimes that we will be left behind.

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #68
Our only problem is that we don't have a strong enough front half,  even yesterday it wasn't getting the ball into our forward line which was the problem, it was keeping it there and scoring while we had it.
Until such time as we get some decent forwards the only way we'll win games is by making them low scoring battles of attrition.
Silvagni and Curnow might measure up but we'll need more than those two and they're still a couple of years away, Weitering isn't a forward.

Rowe gone for the season by the way.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #69
Yes, Nick Riewoldt was a guest commentator on one of the televised games this weekend, and mentioned that all teams these days are spending lots of time at training practicing the fast break, chain-of-handballs from a stoppage / congested area. I would assume because players are so fit and well drilled these days that catching them off guard or on the fast break gives the best chance of scoring.

Every game plan / style has its strengths and weaknesses, and with the right players and right coaching, they can all be made to work and be successful. Every team needs to be able to play a few different ways, and needs to be able to change things up to suit the circumstances.

Whatever "educational" motivation might be behind Bolton's ideas, my concern is that he coaches this way because that's what he feels comfortable with and that's what he learned from Clarko, and that it's not the best way going forward. I hope I'm wrong, but I do get worried sometimes that we will be left behind.

It may be what he's used to Paul but I don't think we need worry.

I reckon that long term we will be a kicking and carrying side and we're just waiting for some better ball users .

Right now it's a brand that helps us get used to our long term plan and reduces the possibility of smashings.

Honestly, I reckon we'd have gone close to winning without the rain coming so heavily.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #70
It's really hard to make too many judgements on individuals in that game.
The TV filters out the actual extreme nature of the weather and what looks like a  lot of rain can be torrential. Add to that the wind which seemed to be all over the place. (Someone who was at the  game could give us a better idea)
Sure both sides had to cope with it... but mature bodies probably can cope a bit better, especially when we were down two men in the rotations and others coming off at regular intervals with niggles.

We dominated them early and were still a chance well into the last quarter...although it was kind of obvious we were just hanging on.
The effort seemed to still be there. It just became too much to resist

It was an Odd day indeed. It started sunny then at various times it Bucketed down, seriously heavy, before stopping again and the wind drying the conditions out quickly. This cycle happened 3-4 times throughout the day and by the end, early in the last term, there was actual thunder and lightning.

I was undercover, but the flags at the ground, were flying opposite to the End we were kicking to in the first term. We were essentially into the wind. Bascially Daisy's goal, it was blowing directly into his face.
You could see at ground level, the ball would hold up in the air, and the shots at goal we took on 50 never looked like making the distance. You could also tell, McCarthy and Walters kicked long goals from the other side of the ground, outside 50 easily.

It was very odd the end into the wind was the scoring end for the majority of the day, except in the third where Dockers took control. They certainly read the ball better off the boot, and Johnson had a filed day, reading the drop of the ball. Levi doesnt work hard enough and our forward setup is awful. Charlie, Levi, Jack all standing in the square waiting for a long bomb... dumb.
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset


 

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #72
It was an Odd day indeed. It started sunny then at various times it Bucketed down, seriously heavy, before stopping again and the wind drying the conditions out quickly. This cycle happened 3-4 times throughout the day and by the end, early in the last term, there was actual thunder and lightning.

I was undercover, but the flags at the ground, were flying opposite to the End we were kicking to in the first term. We were essentially into the wind. Bascially Daisy's goal, it was blowing directly into his face.
You could see at ground level, the ball would hold up in the air, and the shots at goal we took on 50 never looked like making the distance. You could also tell, McCarthy and Walters kicked long goals from the other side of the ground, outside 50 easily.

It was very odd the end into the wind was the scoring end for the majority of the day, except in the third where Dockers took control. They certainly read the ball better off the boot, and Johnson had a filed day, reading the drop of the ball. Levi doesnt work hard enough and our forward setup is awful. Charlie, Levi, Jack all standing in the square waiting for a long bomb... dumb.

Dont think it was the weather...Freo's best 4 players had the ball around 30 times each, thats why we lost IMO and being caught on the rebound for some easy goals.....Neale had it 37 times...you wont win many games when the opposing teams best players have so much ball....

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #73
It may be what he's used to Paul but I don't think we need worry.

I reckon that long term we will be a kicking and carrying side and we're just waiting for some better ball users .

Right now it's a brand that helps us get used to our long term plan and reduces the possibility of smashings.

Honestly, I reckon we'd have gone close to winning without the rain coming so heavily.

I suppose so. Freo may not be world beaters, but they have developed into a gutsy, scrapping team. We are not exactly formidable opposition, but their ability to fight back and graft out some close victories would have to instill some kind of confidence.

I understand where Bolts is coming from to a degree - limiting the blow outs limits the "damage" to the players, but gives less opportunities to win, versus win at all costs by playing the in vogue game style, which may give more chances of victory, but also more spankings. He does at least have a plan that he's sticking to. But i still worry. Losing culture is hard to break. The longer we lose more than we win, the longer it takes to get up off the canvas. I'm not sure that the movement up the ladder is linear and simplistic. There's still enormous amounts of work to do, and lots of decisions that need we need to get right. And some luck, and the umps, and.............

One could also use the argument that playing like this betrays the coach's lack of confidence in his players, which may hurt them than it helps. Lots of ifs, buts and maybes.

Re: 2017 Rd 9: Post Game Patter: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #74
There's still enormous amounts of work to do, and lots of decisions that need we need to get right. And some luck, and the umps, and.............

It's certainly not a given that we'll be competitive in finals in two or three years.
I'm happy that we are finally taking the right approach but due to past mistakes we are coming from further back than other teams in the past who have risen from the depths.
All we can do is hope that we get the draft and trades right for at least the next two years, if we do we'll be going somewhere.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.