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Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 409100 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1036 –
It's a circus (as we thought it would be) and he's the ringmaster

He made some promises during the election campaign and these first couple of weeks are about him showing he can keep them but...

He promised to build a wall that will now resemble a flyscreen.
Mexico will pay...but now indirectly ::)
In fact what will happen if he slaps a tax on Mexican products is that folk will buy American instead, which is his aim

He promised to ban immigration from Muslim dominated countries until it could be properly vetted....what we get is a ban from selected countries for a period of 90-120 days.
That will be over in a blink, but a promise kept.

He's kept his promises in a half-hearted fashion. He can say he kept them... but he's got the world in a tizz.

Problem is it's not the world that counts and as criticism mounts overseas he expands his own base locally as americans become defensive about that criticism...protesters we see in the streets aren't Trump supporters anyway so they're protesting to the converted.

He's a Chaos Lord and he's being fed exactly what he wants at the moment.

The strange thing is that the group of people who will be effective in stopping him going on his merry way are the Republican lawmakers, if they have the will...and that's where it sits at the moment.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1037 –
Quote from: flyboy77 on
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy

for all those still missing the good ol' Obama days!

Just a quick question Flyboy.

Under the current Trump regime and potentially coming from a pro-Trump source, the alleged source Micah Zenko apparently defends Trump's security policy and is the author of a book titled Red: How to Win by "Thinking" like the Enemy(Some think it's basically "An Eye for an Eye" manifesto!), how do we know if this is a "Real" or "Alternative" fact?

I cannot say I've read Micah's book, and I'm also not sure if the assertions or commentary that he is pro-Trump are accurate, but there is enough of that subject matter out there to raise the question!

Who do we trust in this debate, liars who conceal their lies, or liars who is blatant about lying?

The world is now in an awful situation, public opinion and policy is dominated by racists, capitalists and racist capitalists. Both sides of the debate are finger pointing f-knuckles, here and abroad!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1038 –
Quote from: LP on
If the rumours are true about the US Visa requirements, I've a bunch of friends who are financially cooked as the need to travel to the US for business regularly but spent two months touring some of the banned countries last year!

Maybe, I heard a factoid that the Visa requirements were not so strict if you travelled on your US passport.

So dual nationals will not be adversely affected provided they travel on their US passport.

There is so much one sided journalism going on on that it can only be called propaganda and its hard to check what are the actual fall out of these decisions.

On that topic, the abortion point is interesting.  There is some emotive debating going on surrounding the rights of women, and how men are deciding on those rights, but that is a straw man's (or woman's) argument.  The funding decision is made by the appropriate party (people in power) regarding how they will fund groups in terms of providing information to the public.  This doesnt mean that the abortions are unavailable, its a policy choice, based on a funding model but the way its reported is extremely irresponsible aiming at directing public opinion rather than providing facts.

It requires some heavy digging to discover that, and IMHO, thats not the way these topics should be discussed.  It renders discussions defunct and seems to be the current social media warfare trend of just throwing mud and then making it stick.  I don't like it, and thats a bigger issue than any policy or decision the Trump administration has signed off thus far.

That also doesn't mean I agree with any of the above decisions.  Its all flaky check box ticking with no substance at this point, but I expected nothing less so soon into a new presidency.  I have seen some emotive arguments put forward, but emotions shouldnt drive these decisions but cold hard, calculation and facts.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1039 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Maybe, I heard a factoid that the Visa requirements were not so strict if you travelled on your US passport.

So dual nationals will not be adversely affected provided they travel on their US passport.

There is so much one sided journalism going on on that it can only be called propaganda and its hard to check what are the actual fall out of these decisions....

Agreed about the reporting, both sides are going down the "Alternative Fact" route and Joe Average has very little way to verify the facts.

On the VISA issue, fair enough in regards to US citizens Thry, but I wasn't referring to US nationals I'm referring to Australian's who have established business dealings in the US and can apparently no longer get a VISA to visit there due to extended holidays they took last year traveling through various blacklisted countries. Some of them were volunteering on their holidays as part of humanitarian visits with MSF!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1040 –
Quote from: LP on
Agreed about the reporting, both sides are going down the "Alternative Fact" route and Joe Average has very little way to verify the facts.

On the VISA issue, fair enough in regards to US citizens Thry, but I wasn't referring to US nationals I'm referring to Australian's who have established business dealings in the US and can apparently no longer get a VISA to visit there due to extended holidays they took last year traveling through various blacklisted countries. Some of them were volunteering on their holidays as part of humanitarian visits with MSF!

If that is the case, then that means they are just going to have to negotiate what they do and how they do it.

Lets not pretend this is a game changer either.  Video conferencing, proxy negotiations, and various other methods of doing business can and will be exploited in these scenarios.

Either way, the reporting on the Trump administration makes the HUN's EFC drugs saga reporting look balanced which is a reason in itself to be skeptical of all we are being fed by the media.

Is it because the people who run governments cannot sway Trump in the same way that they used to with other leaders??
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1041 –
Quote from: LP on
Just a quick question Flyboy.

Under the current Trump regime and potentially coming from a pro-Trump source, the alleged source Micah Zenko apparently defends Trump's security policy and is the author of a book titled Red: How to Win by "Thinking" like the Enemy(Some think it's basically "An Eye for an Eye" manifesto!), how do we know if this is a "Real" or "Alternative" fact?

I cannot say I've read Micah's book, and I'm also not sure if the assertions or commentary that he is pro-Trump are accurate, but there is enough of that subject matter out there to raise the question!

Who do we trust in this debate, liars who conceal their lies, or liars who is blatant about lying?

The world is now in an awful situation, public opinion and policy is dominated by racists, capitalists and racist capitalists. Both sides of the debate are finger pointing f-knuckles, here and abroad!

The same question could be asked of any piece of media, under any political regime.....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1042 –
Quote from: Lods on
It's a circus (as we thought it would be) and he's the ringmaster

He made some promises during the election campaign and these first couple of weeks are about him showing he can keep them but...

He promised to build a wall that will now resemble a flyscreen.
Mexico will pay...but now indirectly ::)
In fact what will happen if he slaps a tax on Mexican products is that folk will buy American instead, which is his aim

He promised to ban immigration from Muslim dominated countries until it could be properly vetted....what we get is a ban from selected countries for a period of 90-120 days.
That will be over in a blink, but a promise kept.

He's kept his promises in a half-hearted fashion. He can say he kept them... but he's got the world in a tizz.

Problem is it's not the world that counts and as criticism mounts overseas he expands his own base locally as americans become defensive about that criticism...protesters we see in the streets aren't Trump supporters anyway so they're protesting to the converted.

He's a Chaos Lord and he's being fed exactly what he wants at the moment.

The strange thing is that the group of people who will be effective in stopping him going on his merry way are the Republican lawmakers, if they have the will...and that's where it sits at the moment.

Trump has already kept more promises than Tony Abbott did during his entire period as PM.  8) 8)
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1043 –

Quote from: flyboy77 on
The same question could be asked of any piece of media, under any political regime.....

of late, I think the media has become less balanced than it used to be.

We used to get a story and then were told tidbits without being fed an opinion.

Now we get opinion pieces with tidbits of a story in order to sway our opinion, and it always goes to the emotive point of the story in order to garner the appropriate reaction from the appropriate people.

I don't like it.  I haven't seen propaganda like this in my lifetime previously, and I think its going to get worse and rather than focus on the topics, I think its best that people start analysing the media, their sources, and what the goals are.

Currently, the destabilisation of President Trump's regime is all I have seen for the last 6 months.  None of it based on actual facts, but more to do with WHO he is.  That in itself is cause for concern, and it worries me that I see no one talking about that aspect of things.

I want to see analytics, but alas, I fear we will never get the chance because I tried to raise this point on facebook and was quickly howelled down by people who didnt see what I was actually trying to say.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1044 –
Quote from: Lods on
The strange thing is that the group of people who will be effective in stopping him going on his merry way are the Republican lawmakers, if they have the will...and that's where it sits at the moment.

I reckon the people who will stop him are the lawyers and judges.  Americans won't abide unconstitutional actions by either side.

As one commentator put it, Trump had better start use grown up lawyers to vet his executive orders.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1045 –
Quote from: sandsmere on
Trump has already kept more promises than Tony Abbott did during his entire period as PM.  8) 8)

And you see that as a positive!

Trump was voted in by people who think he cares about them, will get them jobs, while he replaces locals with low cost foreigners in his hotels! He may deport those workers and replace them with locals, but the devil is in the detail, jobs at what wage and with what lifestyle? Lods makes points that are very valid.

Trump also has an intellectual support base, they mostly see him as the lesser of two evils because he is openly blatant about lying! But they are yet to see the detail as well.

Some support Trump because they unconditionally support Wikileaks, they point to the Clinton's history. They seem to be accepting of any web facts without supporting evidence, that is just as weak on either side of the argument, it's cherry picking, and they accuse each other of cherry picking constantly. But even so, it's hard to argue Trump is a better option, just because he is blatantly different justifies nothing!

In any case, he isn't really delivering on those promises, as Lods points out. It seems it is just another smokescreen designed to placate the gullible! The republican's are patting the American and Global public on the head Benny Hill style!

Those foreign investments he holds, Russia, Egypt, UAE, Saudi, what are those shares worth today. Trump has always claimed he is a billionaire, a fact questioned by some other billionaires, perhaps he has found the way to make it so!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1046 –
Most of what Trump does and says publicly is pure window dressing. If you want to follow his main game keep an eye on what Rex Tillerson is up to.  ;)
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1047 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Most of what Trump does and says publicly is pure window dressing. If you want to follow his main game keep an eye on what Rex Tillerson is up to.  ;)

Very cynical Cookie2, not everybody is about the money! ::)
The Force Awakens!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1048 –
Quote from: LP on
Very cynical Cookie2, not everybody is about the money! ::)

That's not specifically what I had in mind.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1049 –
Trump's business nous is overrated, his father made all the money while his son has lost most  of what he has invested in failed business ventures.
Trump will force inflation up in the USA and affect the world economy, his lack of understanding could easily produce another GFC if he is allowed to do what he likes.