Below is an outline of what our best 26 should look like from next year going forward (hence Simpson being omitted as he is likely to retire). I included only players I deemed rightfully belonged in our journey as a high performing team chasing flag no.17. Yes, some positions are held by those with merely potential, but they are promising prospects. The blanks represent spots that I don't think anyone on our list is fit to fill. That's why players I've included in our emergencies are just that - good quality depth players but not a walk up into our best 22.
The good news - we only have 3 blanks. I expected us to have a lot more.
The bad news - we still have 3 blanks, and one is crucial - another big bodied midfielder is required. And as is the case with the remaining 2 blanks, I believe this spot needs to be filled by a 21-24 year old to support our relatively young 23 remaining players listed. That means trading and doing what we haven't been able to do for a long time - prying a player out of a club that they aren't happy to see go. Fringe players won't cut it. Gaff is an example of one such player - we need to throw everything at him.
FB: Blank Weitering Plowman
HB: Docherty Marchbank Blank
C: Dow Kennedy SPS
HF: Wright C.Curnow Fisher
FF: Garlett McKay Lamb
Foll: Kreuzer Cripps Blank
I/C: E.Curnow Lang Murphy
Emg: Cunningham Williamson Mullett Pickett
Gaff isn't a bad player, but mids of his type are easier to come by than top shelf key forwards, which IMO is a far greater priority. Not sure how you define "throw everything", but if it's the same definition as mine ($1M per season), and if the club offers that to Gaff, I'll spew.
Gaff isn't a bad player, but mids of his type are easier to come by than top shelf key forwards, which IMO is a far greater priority. Not sure how you define "throw everything", but if it's the same definition as mine ($1M per season), and if the club offers that to Gaff, I'll spew.
You'd get Wines or Shiel for that sort of money.....
You'd get Wines or Shiel for that sort of money.....
If we got either of those two, the club would have dodged a recruiting gaffe.
Is it too early to be looking at the likes of Wines or Shiel, given we haven't really got a settled spine yet!
I'd say it depends on what is on offer in the market. If there's a key forward, great, but if not, we need to secure a big bodied mid and trust McKay and Curnow to be our key forwards. H in particular is still very raw and has upside, so I don't think our spine is in terrible shape as is:
Weitering - strong potential
Marchbank - already proven
Kreuzer - already proven
Curnow - already proven
McKay - strong potential
Spornton, I really worry that the old impatient Carlton might not want to wait long enough for all that to fall into place.
Posters on this forum are already touting Weitering as season end trade bait after only 2 Rnds of 2018.
It's the old Carlton way.
I'll be really concerned if Lamb is still in our best 22 next year, personally I think he is our barometer of depth player. While he's still in the team, our team isn't good enough. Likewise Mullett, haven't seen anything to suggest he's a long term solution. Conversely I think Williamson should be in that back 6, really rate him.
I'm hoping that someone like Pickett forces Lamb out of the side by seasons end.
Is there a case to suggest that Williamson will fill a blank on the HBF and that O'Brien* could come onto the bench?? (*In SOS we trust...well, we gotta!)
My one concern with that side as listed is McKay.
Sure we haven't seen enough of the kid, and I'm not saying he couldn't be the next Lance Franklin, but he just doesn't seem to have the mongrel or "in and hard at it" that I'd expect from a kid who is sitting in the 2s, wanting to make it as a professional AFL player.
Gaff is what we recruited in OBrien,,,outside player who can deliver the footy.....
Sheil is signed to the end of 2019...
Spornton, I really worry that the old impatient Carlton might not want to wait long enough for all that to fall into place.
Posters on this forum are already touting Weitering as season end trade bait after only 2 Rnds of 2018.
It's the old Carlton way.
Its hard being patient barracking for our mob LP.
The best recipe for impatience is improvement ;)
The best recipe for impatience is improvement ;)
Judging improvement becomes clouded when youre impatient ;)
I'd say it depends on what is on offer in the market. If there's a key forward, great, but if not, we need to secure a big bodied mid and trust McKay and Curnow to be our key forwards. H in particular is still very raw and has upside, so I don't think our spine is in terrible shape as is:
Weitering - strong potential
Marchbank - already proven
Kreuzer - already proven
Curnow - already proven
McKay - strong potential
Navy glasses on there.
I've rated the same players...
Weitering - potential, but big question marks of late
Marchbank - already proven
Kreuzer - proven, but injury prone
Curnow - strong potential, but still need to be proven long term.
McKay - potential, but delivered nothing at this stage.
Judging improvement becomes clouded when youre impatient ;)
Not really....you look at the results, ladder and percentages and it's pretty obvious.
Have we improved in the last three years?
We're younger...that's about it!
Not really....you look at the results, ladder and percentages and it's pretty obvious.
Have we improved in the last three years?
We're younger...that's about it!
What about all the green shoots?
What about all the green shoots?
Some of them need a bit of fertilizer ;D
Some of them need a bit of fertilizer ;D
Some of them might actually be manure.
My one concern with that side as listed is McKay.
Sure we haven't seen enough of the kid, and I'm not saying he couldn't be the next Lance Franklin, but he just doesn't seem to have the mongrel or "in and hard at it" that I'd expect from a kid who is sitting in the 2s, wanting to make it as a professional AFL player.
I agree deags.
Harry has done zilch so far this season. Kerr is showing more key forward potential than Harry.
Not so sure about Kerrs ruck work though.
I agree deags.
Harry has done zilch so far this season. Kerr is showing more key forward potential than Harry.
Not so sure about Kerrs ruck work though.
I think at this stage it's Kerr by some margin as far as F50 roles go, and he's rucked for an extended period in the VFL. But you'd have to think that when or if McKay switches on he's got the physical attributes, besides being big he's quick and agile for his size.
Will the Twins ever succeed while they are split?
Is Mckay a bit of a Daniher, all size and leap with not so much physical presence, or does he have a bit of mongrel?
Long term Kerr could be our Taylor Walker, but can we afford to have Kerr and Silvagni in the same side?
I agree deags.
Harry has done zilch so far this season. Kerr is showing more key forward potential than Harry.
Not so sure about Kerrs ruck work though.
What a crock, the VFL hasn't even started ff!
We got flooged a few weeks back in practice, suggesting forwards had limited supply then last week we faced the reigning premiers....harry got 2, kerr got 1.
Harry turned 20 in December.
Contrast to Daniher.
Was a spud until 2015 aged 21. But even in 2014, they simply played him, played him played him....imo
that's what they should be doing with Harry, just play him.
What a crock, the VFL hasn't even started ff!
We got flooged a few weeks back in practice, suggesting forwards had limited supply then last week we faced the reigning premiers....harry got 2, kerr got 1.
Harry turned 20 in December.
Contrast to Daniher.
Was a spud until 2015 aged 21. But even in 2014, they simply played him, played him played him....imo that's what they should be doing with Harry, just play him.
We don't know what sort of leg up Daniher has been given and any comparisons to him are fraught with danger IMHO.
Whatever it takes and all that jazz etc.
McKay needs to be looked at based on HIM, not on what others have done.
Irrespective, with our key position stocks, and our likelihood for success, it might be that he is simply thinking he will be given a spot and that mentality might result in us making sure players earn their stripes.
What a crock, the VFL hasn't even started ff!
We got flooged a few weeks back in practice, suggesting forwards had limited supply then last week we faced the reigning premiers....harry got 2, kerr got 1.
Harry turned 20 in December.
Contrast to Daniher.
Was a spud until 2015 aged 21. But even in 2014, they simply played him, played him played him....imo that's what they should be doing with Harry, just play him.
Your points suggest Harry should be left developing in the VFL, we don't have any of the ready made KPFs to support him in his development like Daniher did. Daniher was able to run around in the AFL as a virtual non-contributor for 2 or 3 seasons, do we have that luxury?
I think until some of the senior heads role, we cannot afford the luxury of sending the kids to the slaughter!
Kerr is ready for a run I think, not consistent enough, but consistent enough of the choices available. You won't get four quarter efforts, you will get cameos for two quarters. If those quarters can be the 2nd and 3rd quarters, this may prove effective enough.
Encourage him to take the game on, do not play him out of the square, lead, present and have a go.
Your points suggest Harry should be left developing in the VFL, we don't have any of the ready made KPFs to support him in his development like Daniher did. Daniher was able to run around in the AFL as a virtual non-contributor for 2 or 3 seasons, do we have that luxury?
I think until some of the senior heads role, we cannot afford the luxury of sending the kids to the slaughter!
I have no idea where yuo get that from, it doesn't even make sense. ::)
I have no idea where yuo get that from, it doesn't even make sense. ::)
Deags, Thry and Sandsmere are correct.
You basically assert that the VFL not having started is no basis for form good or bad, practice match or not, then assert that a kid who has shown nothing in meaningless VFL practice games deserves a run!
If you want to make your point you have to compare Daniher's VFL career pre-AFL selection, to McKay's VFL form, which is of course impossible because McKay's form line is virtually non-existent.
The only real indicator of any value we have is the VFL coaches feedback, and at the moment the McKay stuff isn't grabbing anyone's attention. Up until now, McKay's all reputation and potential with little performance.
I agree deags.
Harry has done zilch so far this season. Kerr is showing more key forward potential than Harry.
Not so sure about Kerrs ruck work though.
Kerr isnt a ruckman, he got to ruck in the twos when we were short on big blokes, he is 194cm so good Kp size but not a genuine ruck size.
He actually showed a bit of nous and good body positioning when he did ruck which probably gave a false sense of his abilities...
I really like him as a footballer and think he is a bit more rounded than Harry in terms of being able to play up the ground and throw his weight around a bit.
This season looks like being another experimental one and I reckon playing Kerr at FF with the odd run up the ground would do more good than harm and give us another big body in the team
who probably has a bit more aggression about his play..
Kerr isnt a ruckman, he got to ruck in the twos when we were short on big blokes, he is 194cm so good Kp size but not a genuine ruck size.
He actually showed a bit of nous and good body positioning when he did ruck which probably gave a false sense of his abilities...
I really like him as a footballer and think he is a bit more rounded than Harry in terms of being able to play up the ground and throw his weight around a bit.
This season looks like being another experimental one and I reckon playing Kerr at FF with the odd run up the ground would do more good than harm and give us another big body in the team who probably has a bit more aggression about his play..
I agree with all this, Kerr is capable of doing the Levi role in my opinion, primarily forward while offering our ruck a chop in the F50 stoppages. His jump and strength let him do the ruck role even while injured in the VFL, but it's not the AFL.
For me an important point is this. Kerr is not so much of a loss at ground level around stoppages, so he should take the ruck and he'll be more than just an annoyance, and nobody will get an easy ball around him.
McKay is ultra-mobile for his size around the ground at stoppages, good below his knees and can almost play as another bullocking mobile forward. When he gets sucked into the ruck at F50 stoppages it's a loss for us because at the moment he doesn't have the 2nd efforts and recovery he needs after the tap, not because of fitness but because or experience and knowledge.
If Kerr is not in then I'd rather see Jones play as the sacrificial KPF alongside Charlie and another marking target whoever that may be, even Casboult. Let Jones take all F50 stoppages, because Jones has supreme recovery and attack on the football at the moment without hesitation, that will create opportunities in the F50. Let Levi clear out and drop behind play and compete for the high ball coming out of our F50 zone. This variable role base approach makes more sense to me than mindlessly welding blokes into set positions.
Further this isn't new skills they have to learn, it stuff they have already shown and they just need the game plan to allow them to make use of it.
I rated Daniel Venables a couple of years ago in his draft year. He went to the WCE and kicked 3 round 1 or 2 this year. Like him. Wouldn't mind snaring a couple of 20-22 years olds like that to top us up more, and without giving away much.
I'm interested to see what Jordan Gallucci from the Crows does this year also. Another Vic kid with some talent in his 2nd year of AFL footy, ala Venables.
Potentially some lost Dogs. Dahlhaus, Wallis and Smith could be handy. I do like Lukas Webb and Bailey Dale too. They'd fit our Club nicely.
Then add a potential top 5 pick - could be any of Lukosius, Max Kind, Ben King, Walsh, Rankine or Hill. jets all of them!
To be honest, and I have been quite frustrated already this year, we are playing kids so we look and play footy at the top level just that way. We look small and skinny, slow at times and without confidence, or looking to the skipper or someone to make a stance. Charlie C, Cripps, Fisher and Marchbank are doing the job thus far. Others will improve. We will know more in the 2nd half of this year, our 3rd year of the reset/rebuild, IMHO.
Hold tight till then!
Deags, Thry and Sandsmere are correct.
You basically assert that the VFL not having started is no basis for form good or bad, practice match or not, then assert that a kid who has shown nothing in meaningless VFL practice games deserves a run!
If you want to make your point you have to compare Daniher's VFL career pre-AFL selection, to McKay's VFL form, which is of course impossible because McKay's form line is virtually non-existent.
The only real indicator of any value we have is the VFL coaches feedback, and at the moment the McKay stuff isn't grabbing anyone's attention. Up until now, McKay's all reputation and potential with little performance.
Not what I am asserting at all.
I am asserting that McKay's is no worse than Kerr's form and that if we really want him to develop as A KEY FORWARD (or even THE key forward), we might as well have him playing in the 1s....
That said, if his attitude is all wrong - and on that I have no idea, of course he shouldn't be promoted.
I am asserting that McKay's is no worse than Kerr's form and that if we really want him to develop as A KEY FORWARD (or even THE key forward), we might as well have him playing in the 1s....
I don't think that is right either, it certainly doesn't correspond to anything Fraser had stated.
Although I haven't watched VFL Practice games myself my friends tell me Kerr is well ahead of the others in regards to being on the cusp of a F50 opportunity.
If I had to isolate one player from match highlights who has caught my eye it would be TDK.
I think if McKay gets a run it might be for the wrong reasons, in might be because the clubs lost faith in Casboult as a Ruck/2nd Ruck option, and that will not be doing justice to the kid it's just like throwing him to the wolves. The experienced guys will take the opportunity to beat up on the kid, leaving him mentally subordinate for years to come.
When a KPP develops and gets a run in the AFL he's typically coming up against 6 to 8 year players. In the ruck it is even worse most bloke are not mainstream until they are 26 or 28 years old and at their peak between 28 and 32, that makes them 8 to 12 year players with all the experience and all the tricks, you cannot expect kids to compete with those guys, it is not an even playing field.
Often I defend Murphy, I'll tell you why. Carlton threw him to the wolves early in his career, we let him get pounded by blokes like Hodge and Patfull, Peverill, Crowley, etc., etc.. That would break a lot of kids, they'd be cooked forever more mentally if not physically, but not Murph. He still gets up week in and week out and gets clobbered by opponents with very little push back from those around him. Not every player can wear that and stand up again week after week. Allowing the kids to cop that sort of attention is rolling the dice, give them a few years though to develop and they become resilient.
Just as an aside, we look at how a bloke performs (Marks, kicks, handballs, contests, blah blah blah) which actually might not be important for what our team selection is.
i.e. Where they position themselves, how they present, where they don't stand (defensively vs offensively) and what that means for the guys up/down field.
You might find that the blokes getting selected is to do with what they are doing vs what they are being asked to do, and irrespective of whether or not a bloke is tearing it up in the twos, he might not be getting a game because he is being asked to do something, and isnt delivering.
You might find that the blokes getting selected is to do with what they are doing vs what they are being asked to do, and irrespective of whether or not a bloke is tearing it up in the twos, he might not be getting a game because he is being asked to do something, and isnt delivering.
Very good point Thry, makes Josh Fraser's comments even more applicable.
I have concerns that Jack will be the one to hold down that third tall position...but if as the VFL review points out he can add an extra few strings to his bow there may well be a spot for him in the best 22.
Jack Silvagni
Stats: 11 disposals, 4 tackles, 3 goals
From the coach: I liked parts of his game as well: he played forward while also spending a quarter inside as a midfielder. It was important for him to hit the scoreboard through his leading patterns and competitive efforts on the ground. The way he played his role as a bigger bodied midfielder showed he is adding layers to his game which will fast-track his development.
Just blown away by how quick people are to judge McKay at 20 after 2 games. It's honestly hilarious.
Isn't that what supporters do, judge players?
I don't think anyone has written him off. Just expressing concerns.
Why is it legitimate to judge him as being good, but not have concerns?
Just blown away by how quick people are to judge McKay at 20 after 2 games. It's honestly hilarious.
Judging works both ways.
Some people judge players by locking them into the best 22 for the next 10 years.
Other people have doubts and want to keep recruiting similar types of players until he, or someone makes that spot their own.
So which people are the 'judgers'?
We've players who have been in the best 22 for almost a decade, and they have been spuds for the majority of that time!
They should change their nickname to "Old Lucky!"
List is in a massive rebuild stage it's a bottom 2 list with a lot of question marks.
It's has a lot of unproven young talent bar a couple. The middle bracket (22-27 ish) is very thin for talent and we have a couple of ageing good players.
We need midfield talent and a lot of it. We bat about 2-3 deep at the moment and only really have quality in Cripps. Curnow is a warrior, Murphy is 30+ and that's about where it ends. SPS and Fisher are the only two kids we can hang our hat on at this stage. Dow also on talent.
We need 2-3 of O'Brien, Polson, Cunningham, Lang and Kennedy to become very good players to add to that depth. Plus hit the draft.
You would love Cripps to push forward a bit more, but he really can't at the moment.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blues-face-a-long-year-20180405-p4z7vk.html
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blues-face-a-long-year-20180405-p4z7vk.html
A this point in time, he's right. Transitioning game plan, lots of kids that haven't played much senior footy, and haven't played together as a team, injuries, maybe the coach is also still learning the ropes. Impotent forward line, skills that come and go.
And also generally agree with Shakin, but a top line KPF is a priority.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blues-face-a-long-year-20180405-p4z7vk.html
Very good article by Carey.
We still have a long way to go. Hopefully looking at finals in 2020- 2021.
PaulPs right too. We desperately need a good KPF. . . . GWS again ???????
The worry for me is that there are no guarantees that the majority of the younger group (from the Weitering draft on)....will develop as we hope.
It's all about faith at the moment.
Players like Charlie C you can be pretty confident about.
SPS is probably another.
I'm struggling to find anyone else.
They all have their strengths but they also have a few question marks.
Even assuming a 50/50 success rate....this will take some time.
The other problem is who sets the example.
We have one absolute gun in Cripps. We have another in Docherty (who won't be playing this year), Kreuzer at his best is one who sets the standard, but Kreuzer also struggles to make it long term without an injury setback and at nearly 29 may not have a much longer career.
"Old Carlton" or not we need to find one (even better a couple), of mid-age A graders.
A key Forward and a big midfielder preferably.
It may be we lose a few of the young guys in a trade but long term it may result in a quicker and also a more sustained period of success.
Slow and Steady doesn't always win the race...if you keep having to go back to the start.
(Edit:I didn't read the Carey article before I posted this...have to say it's pretty much as I'm thinking.Not sure whether that reflects poorly on me or Carey ;D)
Any side that can't do the basics is always going to struggle.
Any side that can't do the basics is always going to struggle.
Carlton isn't alone in this regard in 2018, in general the quality of the football has been shocking, despite the closeness of some of the results. What is probably different for us is that we've been like this for almost a decade.
Regarding 2018 in general, a mate put forward a theory it is because of the reduces number of interclub practice games, he thinks most clubs haven't got the bugs out yet
because Intraclub games are just not the same as Interclub games.I also question whether the shorter pre-season is having an effect, slowly year by year the AFLPA is eating away at the length of the pre-season with players having more and more time off each year.
Gee it's that clear even Carey can see it. I wonder who wrote the article for him.
List is in a massive rebuild stage it's a bottom 2 list with a lot of question marks.
It's has a lot of unproven young talent bar a couple. The middle bracket (22-27 ish) is very thin for talent and we have a couple of ageing good players.
We need midfield talent and a lot of it. We bat about 2-3 deep at the moment and only really have quality in Cripps. Curnow is a warrior, Murphy is 30+ and that's about where it ends. SPS and Fisher are the only two kids we can hang our hat on at this stage. Dow also on talent.
We need 2-3 of O'Brien, Polson, Cunningham, Lang and Kennedy to become very good players to add to that depth. Plus hit the draft.
You would love Cripps to push forward a bit more, but he really can't at the moment.
We have been hitting the draft, I appreciate what you are saying and there is evidence to support that but what you are suggesting in reality is another rebuild and this one looks like it may have failed.
I dont see how you can sell a bottom two finish to members/supporters after three seasons of drafting and cellar dwelling and expect continued support for the coach and footy dept...
This would also mean more major culling of the list and I think SOS will find it difficult to cull players he drafted and have to admit defeat with those selections..
I agree with Shakin but I'm not sure the relying on the draft will fix it, the draft wipe outs are what put us in this predicament.
Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have relied more on trades and free agency for the last decade and they have consistently been up there. Port have gone down that path too and it might pay off for them.
We have been hitting the draft, I appreciate what you are saying and there is evidence to support that but what you are suggesting in reality is another rebuild and this one looks like it may have failed.
I dont see how you can sell a bottom two finish to members/supporters after three seasons of drafting and cellar dwelling and expect continued support for the coach and footy dept...
This would also mean more major culling of the list and I think SOS will find it difficult to cull players he drafted and have to admit defeat with those selections..
Another rebuild? It's only been since 2015. Before that we were topping up with Boekhorst and the like. That's 2 years (and a bit)
I am not selling a bottom 2 finish. You don't need to sell anything when you have an honest look at our list. It sells itself.
We won't have any issues finding players to delist and that doesn't include SOS's draft picks.
I agree with Shakin but I'm not sure the relying on the draft will fix it, the draft wipe outs are what put us in this predicament.
Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have relied more on trades and free agency for the last decade and they have consistently been up there. Port have gone down that path too and it might pay off for them.
Hawks excel at identifying talent wherever they look, whether it's the draft or trade, and are good at getting the best out of their players. Hodge, Mitchell S, Roughhead, Buddy, Isaac Smith etc. all through the draft. Frawley, Burgoyne etc. all trades.
Another rebuild? It's only been since 2015. Before that we were topping up with Boekhorst and the like. That's 2 years (and a bit)
I am not selling a bottom 2 finish. You don't need to sell anything when you have an honest look at our list. It sells itself.
We won't have any issues finding players to delist and that doesn't include SOS's draft picks.
We have had three drafts since SOS arrived , most of the Hughes/Rogers players have been culled...its SOS killing his own bambi's next cull.
You said the list lacks top end talent ie we have Cripps, C.Curnow and then Murphy who many see as ok but not great these days......then you named Fisher, SPS and maybe Dow as potential good players with maybe a few to come from that list including OBrien, Kennedy etc.....thats probably around ten players with 30 odd in the firing line......
You want to go back to the draft and dont rate 3/4 of the list...thats a major rebuild...
Hard to attract readymade top end talent unless you have decent ladder position and the money......so that leaves us with more pain and misery for many years?
We need 1-2 gun mids which we can easily afford. Shiel, Kelly, Wines - we'll get at least one of them. I'd even take the Schloite guy who won the Sandover last year. Played with Kelly at South Freo and out performed him most weeks....
Must have plenty in the kitty already then Simo and Daisy goneski season end and Murphy not far behind....
Other than that, we'll presumably get Ben Silvagni, i don't think the forward line needs a more?
We need 1-2 gun mids which we can easily afford. Shiel, Kelly, Wines - we'll get at least one of them. I'd even take the Schloite guy who won the Sandover last year. Played with Kelly at South Freo and out performed him most weeks....
Must have plenty in the kitty already then Simo and Daisy goneski season end and Murphy not far behind....
Other than that, we'll presumably get Ben Silvagni, i don't think the forward line needs a more?
Sheil is signed to the end of 2019 and Wines is said to be close to re-signing with Port.....Kelly maybe a chance if GWS can win a flag and he can then look for a big deal....
I think we need a top end forward who can win games like Lynch, Patton or Cameron as well...
Our problem isn't in the kids we draft, it's hiding in some of the players we keep.
The cause of our pain is there in plain sight, week in and week out, there is a reason we miss the close results, the same reason contributes to why we cannot attract major trade targets.
Cutting kids is the soft option, not the right option.
Everybody in the competition is laughing at us, and not because of who we draft.
Sheil is signed to the end of 2019 and Wines is said to be close to re-signing with Port.....Kelly maybe a chance if GWS can win a flag and he can then look for a big deal....
I think we need a top end forward who can win games like Lynch, Patton or Cameron as well...
Yes, Wines has been anointed as captain in waiting, from what I read, and as you say, his signature is a question of when rather than if.
I can't see the other two coming unless we pay crazy overs, or unless our young mids come on and present as a strong, consistently performing midfield group.
I reckon Boyd will be dirt cheap next time around, and assuming he gets his head right he'd be a massive improvement on what we've got.
We have had three drafts since SOS arrived , most of the Hughes/Rogers players have been culled...its SOS killing his own bambi's next cull.
You said the list lacks top end talent ie we have Cripps, C.Curnow and then Murphy who many see as ok but not great these days......then you named Fisher, SPS and maybe Dow as potential good players with maybe a few to come from that list including OBrien, Kennedy etc.....thats probably around ten players with 30 odd in the firing line......
You want to go back to the draft and dont rate 3/4 of the list...thats a major rebuild...
Hard to attract readymade top end talent unless you have decent ladder position and the money......so that leaves us with more pain and misery for many years?
I was only talking about our midfield.
I reckon Boyd will be dirt cheap next time around, and assuming he gets his head right he'd be a massive improvement on what we've got.
You would think about it under 2 conditions.
- Cost nothing in draft picks.
- Cost nothing in wages
Neither will happen.
You would think about it under 2 conditions.
- Cost nothing in draft picks.
- Cost nothing in wages
Neither will happen.
I think there actually is a good chance both those scenarios will occur, just like they have in a couple of previous cases.
You would think the AFL as a group has now learned quite a lot from his case, which will only pump up the value of mature age players like Lynch.
I think there is a place for "speculative" pickups at the right price but it would be a dire mistake to hang our collective hat on them. They should be regarded as cream on the cake who wouldn't be that important in case of failure to perform i.e. massive upside potential benefit but low downside impact in case of failure. By their nature we can't afford to take too many on board and they should be relatively cheap.
I think there is a place for "speculative" pickups at the right price but it would be a dire mistake to hang our collective hat on them. They should be regarded as cream on the cake who wouldn't be that important in case of failure to perform i.e. massive upside potential benefit but low downside impact in case of failure. By their nature we can't afford to take too many on board and they should be relatively cheap.
Yes, Boyd will instantly become our No1 KPF, even before he plays. You can't be going for a speccy for such an important position. If there's one position that we must get right the first time, it's this one.
Does anyone know his current status ? He didn't play the first 2 AFL games. Is he playing VFL ? Did he play the JLT ?
Any info appreciated.
Ben Silvagni-not a lot of possessions but a couple of goals and in the bests for Oakleigh last weekend.
Yes, Boyd will instantly become our No1 KPF, even before he plays. You can't be going for a speccy for such an important position. If there's one position that we must get right the first time, it's this one.
What part of our history is that based on, what part of our history makes you think we will change?
Does anyone know his current status ? He didn't play the first 2 AFL games. Is he playing VFL ? Did he play the JLT ?
Any info appreciated.
The last update I read was he had an indefinite leave of absence to deal with clinical depression, and that there was some controversy about how his contract is to be dealt with potentially allowing the Dogs to overstep the TPP legally. However, reports before Christmas are that he was back in training, competing besides Schache in Intraclub matches, having played only one VFL game at the end of last season.
So far for 2018 he's not listed as injured, and not listed as playing.
Ben Silvagni-not a lot of possessions but a couple of goals and in the bests for Oakleigh last weekend.
Was he rucking Lods, I haven't caught up with the reports yet?
People have to keep in mind that the TAC Cup is not a pure competition, at least it use to be the case all the coaches were employed by the AFL and directed by the AFL to create open contests and one on one scenarios rather than use flooding or zone tactics. In some respects, the start of the AFL seasons looks eerily similar! :o
I was only talking about our midfield.
Fair enough..I miss understood......
Dow and OBrien have to make it then...pick 3 and Pick 10 isnt something you get every draft....
Dow is under a lot of pressure to be a saviour IMO especially with Gibbs gone...
The club tried initially with Tom Mitchell then with Kelly and Rockliff but its hard work when other clubs are offering mega deals and finals.....
Hawks bring in Mitchell, OMeara
Geelong ..Dangerfield, Ablett
Bit of difference to Kennedy and Lang ...in terms of status/worth....thats the advantage of being successful....
Was he rucking Lods, I haven't caught up with the reports yet?
Only 1 hit out in Round 2 would suggest not....although neither side seemed to have anyone with big numbers in this respect.
Round 1 was apparently very wet and not a good day for tall forwards... he only got a couple of possessions and 5 hitouts so he is doing some rucking..
Robertson seems to be the main ruck at Oakleigh.
Our midfield certainly needs more talent and depth. That is clear to me, and has been for a while.
Thinking the 2nd half of this year will be an exciting one, and certainly next year. Docherty will be back, the kids have another AFL season into them (2018) and then another pre-season. Should be exciting.
I'm interested to see if we'll go to the 'Super Draft' this year, or throw some coin at Ollie Wines, Tom Lynch and some others as we need bolstering in many ways. The good thing though for me is that we went to the National Draft again last year, and also snared two young mids in Kennedy and Lang, and now get to play the kids predominately this year. The inroads could be huge by the time round 23 is complete.
Right now, we need some more starting 18 footballers in the AFL team. By the end of this year, we will probably still need some, but you never know with youth. The goal posts could change somewhat!
Current Blues Youth:
Backline - Docherty, Williamson, Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering, Macreadie, Schumacher, Byrne, Glass-McCasker (r), McDaid (r).
Midfield - Cripps, Kennedy, Lang, Fisher, Petrevski-Seton, Cuningham, Dow, O'Brien, Polson.
Forwards - C.Curnow, J.Garlett, J.Pickett, McKay, J.Silvagni, Kerr, De Koning, Lebois (r).
At this VERY early stage, apart from rookies in Glass-McCasker and Lebois, I'd imagine all of the other young blokes I've listed above will remain for 2019, including International Rookie McDaid. The rookies could improve as the year gets going and remain also. We'll see.
We currently have one x 1st rounder and two x 2nd rounders for this years National Draft. Very good start. The potential top 5 all look like superstars in the making, and maybe more kids, though again we'll see how the year pans out.
We need 1-2 gun mids which we can easily afford. Shiel, Kelly, Wines - we'll get at least one of them. I'd even take the Schloite guy who won the Sandover last year. Played with Kelly at South Freo and out performed him most weeks....
Must have plenty in the kitty already then Simo and Daisy goneski season end and Murphy not far behind....
Other than that, we'll presumably get Ben Silvagni, i don't think the forward line needs a more?
I suggested a look at him too fb. Along with WAFL Kelly and Ryan. Admittedly the trek across the Nullabor is a risky one.
Wines will stay put IMO. Either of GWS Kelly or Sheil would be a big boost, but not sure we'd be on top of their list atm.
I suggested a look at him too fb. Along with WAFL Kelly and Ryan. Admittedly the trek across the Nullabor is a risky one.
Wines will stay put IMO. Either of GWS Kelly or Sheil would be a big boost, but not sure we'd be on top of their list atm.
I don't understand why Schloithe was ignored. Must be something, but I have no idea what.
I don't understand why Schloithe was ignored. Must be something, but I have no idea what.
He was on Freo rookie list some years back. He didn't debut, although that was a year or two before their GF berth.
By all accounts in WA media, he's considered very unlucky to have missed the call up last year.
By all accounts in WA media, he's considered very unlucky to have missed the call up last year.
They say that about so many though, it's hard sometimes what to believe, many have rightly become skeptical.
Im going to put this out there with no real knowledge.
We know draft tampering is illegal, and thats fine.
Is it illegal for example for a WAFL club, to pay overs to prevent a youngster from joining the AFL and maybe plying his trade in the second tier comps?
What if a rich benefactor provided that incentive to said WAFL/SANFL/VFL/NEAFL club??
They say that about so many though, it's hard sometimes what to believe, many have rightly become skeptical.
Indeed. Arguably the edge this bloke shows is that he's taken top honors in his team / comp in consecutive seasons. There could be any number of factors at play though.
As for Thry's draft tampering theory, I guess it's possible. We've seen similar influence in multiple sports. Sadly.
Im going to put this out there with no real knowledge.
We know draft tampering is illegal, and thats fine.
Is it illegal for example for a WAFL club, to pay overs to prevent a youngster from joining the AFL and maybe plying his trade in the second tier comps?
What if a rich benefactor provided that incentive to said WAFL/SANFL/VFL/NEAFL club??
Haven't the AFL and States leagues issued widespread salary cap regulations starting last year!
In the case of Schloithe, I though he nominated but was overlooked!
Haven't the AFL and States leagues issued widespread salary cap regulations starting last year!
In the case of Schloithe, I though he nominated but was overlooked!
Sure, but what I am getting at, there might be a "if I can't have them, Ill do my best to make sure no one does".
There seems to be a roughy mature ager that comes out of nowhere every year, and highly rated youngsters that wind up in the state leagues that no one goes near, and I wonder if that heppens for a rea$on...
There seems to be a roughy mature ager that comes out of nowhere every year, and highly rated youngsters that wind up in the state leagues that no one goes near, and I wonder if that heppens for a rea$on...
It could happen.
I think the odd mature age player popping up is just natural progression. It can appear odd because the system it is built on the perception that draftees are 19 year olds, identified, tested, developed and prepared ready to go. But it's not true is it?
The AFL Draft system isn't a clean sweep, some kids have no idea what they want to do or what they are capable of at the age of 19. Some are men at 16, while others are still children at 25!
We need players who cant take on and beat Martin, Dangerfield, Sloane, Selwood, Fyfe, Pendlebury etc.......the royalty of AFL midifelders...
Schloithe would be depth but wouldnt be much use vs real quality.....solid, good tackler and looks more like a half back than a mid.
Not overly quick and his two handed ball drop at AFL senior level would get him him to trouble too......he is very blue collar. good at the coalface but Tim Kelly had more tricks, more pace and at AFL level is a more polished player IMO.
Essendon looked at Schloithe and passed as did West Coast...neither have brilliant midfields so that probably tells a story....
Haven't the AFL and States leagues issued widespread salary cap regulations starting last year!
In the case of Schloithe, I though he nominated but was overlooked!
yes he was overlooked....
Essendon looked at Schloithe and passed as did West Coast...neither have brilliant midfields so that probably tells a story....
Well if CheatsFC passed at least we know the reason isn't drug related! ;D
For every Kelly there are 10 Shane Valenti's
I wouldn't know Schloithe if I fell over him, but there are plenty that dominate at VFL/WAFL that aren't AFL footballers.