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Topic: Our list - what we have and what we need (Read 19004 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #30 –
Quote from: LP – on
Deags, Thry and Sandsmere are correct.

You basically assert that the VFL not having started is no basis for form good or bad, practice match or not, then assert that a kid who has shown nothing in meaningless VFL practice games deserves a run!

If you want to make your point you have to compare Daniher's VFL career pre-AFL selection, to McKay's VFL form, which is of course impossible because McKay's form line is virtually non-existent.

The only real indicator of any value we have is the VFL coaches feedback, and at the moment the McKay stuff isn't grabbing anyone's attention. Up until now, McKay's all reputation and potential with little performance.

Not what I am asserting at all.

I am asserting that McKay's is no worse than Kerr's form and that if we really want him to develop as A KEY FORWARD (or even THE key forward), we might as well have him playing in the 1s....

That said, if his attitude is all wrong - and on that I have no idea, of course he shouldn't be promoted.

Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #31 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
I am asserting that McKay's is no worse than Kerr's form and that if we really want him to develop as A KEY FORWARD (or even THE key forward), we might as well have him playing in the 1s....

I don't think that is right either, it certainly doesn't correspond to anything Fraser had stated.

Although I haven't watched VFL Practice games myself my friends tell me Kerr is well ahead of the others in regards to being on the cusp of a F50 opportunity.

If I had to isolate one player from match highlights who has caught my eye it would be TDK.

I think if McKay gets a run it might be for the wrong reasons, in might be because the clubs lost faith in Casboult as a Ruck/2nd Ruck option, and that will not be doing justice to the kid it's just like throwing him to the wolves. The experienced guys will take the opportunity to beat up on the kid, leaving him mentally subordinate for years to come.

When a KPP develops and gets a run in the AFL he's typically coming up against 6 to 8 year players. In the ruck it is even worse most bloke are not mainstream until they are 26 or 28 years old and at their peak between 28 and 32, that makes them 8 to 12 year players with all the experience and all the tricks, you cannot expect kids to compete with those guys, it is not an even playing field.

Often I defend Murphy, I'll tell you why. Carlton threw him to the wolves early in his career, we let him get pounded by blokes like Hodge and Patfull, Peverill, Crowley, etc., etc.. That would break a lot of kids, they'd be cooked forever more mentally if not physically, but not Murph. He still gets up week in and week out and gets clobbered by opponents with very little push back from those around him. Not every player can wear that and stand up again week after week. Allowing the kids to cop that sort of attention is rolling the dice, give them a few years though to develop and they become resilient.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #32 –
Just as an aside, we look at how a bloke performs (Marks, kicks, handballs, contests, blah blah blah) which actually might not be important for what our team selection is.

i.e.  Where they position themselves, how they present, where they don't stand (defensively vs offensively) and what that means for the guys up/down field.

You might find that the blokes getting selected is to do with what they are doing vs what they are being asked to do, and irrespective of whether or not a bloke is tearing it up in the twos, he might not be getting a game because he is being asked to do something, and isnt delivering.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #33 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
You might find that the blokes getting selected is to do with what they are doing vs what they are being asked to do, and irrespective of whether or not a bloke is tearing it up in the twos, he might not be getting a game because he is being asked to do something, and isnt delivering.

Very good point Thry, makes Josh Fraser's comments even more applicable.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #34 –
I have concerns that Jack will be the one to hold down that third tall position...but if as the VFL review points out he can add an extra few strings to his bow there may well be a spot for him in the best 22.

Quote
Jack Silvagni
Stats: 11 disposals, 4 tackles, 3 goals
From the coach: I liked parts of his game as well: he played forward while also spending a quarter inside as a midfielder. It was important for him to hit the scoreboard through his leading patterns and competitive efforts on the ground. The way he played his role as a bigger bodied midfielder showed he is adding layers to his game which will fast-track his development.

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #35 –
Just blown away by how quick people are to judge McKay at 20 after 2 games.  It's honestly hilarious.

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #36 –
Isn't that what supporters do, judge players?
I don't think anyone has written him off. Just expressing concerns.
Why is it legitimate to judge him as being good, but not have concerns?

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #37 –
Quote from: SPORNTON – on
Just blown away by how quick people are to judge McKay at 20 after 2 games.  It's honestly hilarious.

Judging works both ways.

Some people judge players by locking them into the best 22 for the next 10 years.
Other people have doubts and want to keep recruiting similar types of players until he, or someone makes that spot their own.

So which people are the 'judgers'?

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #38 –
We've players who have been in the best 22 for almost a decade, and they have been spuds for the majority of that time!

They should change their nickname to "Old Lucky!"
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #39 –
List is in a massive rebuild stage it's a bottom 2 list with a lot of question marks.

It's has a lot of unproven young talent bar a couple.  The middle bracket (22-27 ish) is very thin for talent and we have a couple of ageing good players.

We need midfield talent and a lot of it.   We bat about 2-3 deep at the moment and only really have quality in Cripps.   Curnow is a warrior, Murphy is 30+ and that's about where it ends.  SPS and Fisher are the only two kids we can hang our hat on at this stage.   Dow also on talent.

We need 2-3 of O'Brien, Polson, Cunningham, Lang and Kennedy to become very good players to add to that depth.   Plus hit the draft.

You would love Cripps to push forward a bit more, but he really can't at the moment.

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #41 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blues-face-a-long-year-20180405-p4z7vk.html

A this point in time, he's right. Transitioning game plan, lots of kids that haven't played much senior footy, and haven't played together as a team, injuries, maybe the coach is also still learning the ropes. Impotent forward line, skills that come and go.

And also generally agree with Shakin, but a top line KPF is a priority.

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #42 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blues-face-a-long-year-20180405-p4z7vk.html

Very good article by Carey.

We still have a long way to go. Hopefully looking at finals in 2020- 2021.

PaulPs right too. We desperately need a good KPF. . . . GWS again ???????
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #43 –
The worry for me is that there are no guarantees that the majority of the younger group (from the Weitering draft on)....will develop as we hope.
It's all about faith at the moment.
Players like Charlie C you can be pretty confident about.
SPS is probably another.
I'm struggling to find anyone else.
They all have their strengths but they also have a few question marks.
Even assuming a 50/50 success rate....this will take some time.
The other problem is who sets the example.
We have one absolute gun in Cripps. We have another in Docherty (who won't be playing this year), Kreuzer at his best is one who sets the standard, but Kreuzer also struggles to make it long term without an injury setback and at nearly 29 may not have a much longer career.

"Old Carlton" or not we need to find one (even better a couple), of mid-age A graders.
A key Forward and a big midfielder preferably.
It may be we lose a few of the young guys in a trade but long term it may result in a quicker and also a more sustained period of success.

Slow and Steady doesn't always win the race...if you keep having to go back to the start.

(Edit:I didn't read the Carey article before I posted this...have to say it's pretty much as I'm thinking.Not sure whether that reflects poorly on me or Carey ;D)

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #44 –
Any side that can't do the basics is always going to struggle.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?