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Topic: Will it stand up? (Read 53352 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #150 –
Quote from: Goat on
Quote from: madbluboy on
20+ players had surgery, what's so hard to understand?
Exactly, minor.
Minor, as in not life threatening. Doesn't mean it will not effect a players pre-season.

-   Major surgery – such as surgery to the organs of the head, chest and abdomen. Examples of major surgery include organ transplant, removal of a brain tumour, removal of a damaged kidney or open-heart surgery. The person will need to stay in hospital for some time. The risk of complications may be high and the person will take a longer time to recover.

-   Minor surgery – presents a low risk of complications and fast recovery time. The person can usually go home the same day. Examples of minor surgery include tonsillectomy, sewing up a cut or biopsy of a breast lump.

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #151 –
Quote from: kruddler on
Quote from: Goat on
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2013-11-12/blues-heading-back-to-flagstaff. 34 players fit and ready for Flagstaff

We have a list of 45 players, so if that is true, 11 players were not 'fit and ready'. So immediately that shows almost double the amount that Mick said in an interview which you hold as gospel.

So the only bit of 'evidence' you have has been disproven.

Does it take into account the players that DID have surgery but came along as well? What about players that may have had surgery AFTER that trip?

17, 22, 45 players...whatever. We have had more players than the norm have surgery in the off-season. Fact.
By memory the season before we had 19ish. You take it as a big impact I don't. Out of the 11 you it includes family commitments.

I'd be curious as to what other clubs had especially the top four.  A few years back I attended the Hawks B&F and I could have counted on one hand the players who had no bandage, crutch, limp, of some sort or other.

I do t need to prove anything. As I said I'm not naive enough to accept everything the club says.
Excuses year 1, blame year 2, contract extention year 3........

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #152 –
Forget the surgery argument.

How many of our guys were in tip top condition come round 1?

I'll give you a hint, Kreuzer, Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Tuohy, Carrazzo and Henderson all were in trouble.  Of these names, most have shown decreased form, decreased ability to impact the game, and in some cases have not been able to get on the park at all.

Now, you tell me if you were their teamates how confident you would be in our ability to win games knowing there were questions over the aforementioned?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #153 –
Walker's comments suggest that the players were being held back somewhat. He doesn't mention injury or confidence as an excuse. They got together and decided how they play their best footy, the rest is history.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #154 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Quote from: Goat on
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Is 22 players a lot? If they are back in training before Xmas does it matter?

The number alone tells us nothing.
It's a huge amount, when you refer to MINOR surgery, of ingrown toe nail, laser hair removal,  :P

You guys would still argue even if you were presented with each player's medical record.

Not really, just want to know what we are talking about? Did 22 players miss because they had knee recos or did they miss having a clean out straight after the season which they recover from before they start training? Were the 22 players ones who get games or rookies?

Did our opponents also have 20+ players out with surgery too, if so why are ours important but theirs aren't? Or is 22 typical? Ratten's last year had 25+ post season surgeries (from memory) for example. Maybe 22 is actually pretty good.

Without a reference point the number is meaningless.

That's just detail I suppose?

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #155 –
@IOT the number of surgeries you have I think is probably irrelevant.  You could have 44 minor scar tissue cleanups and probably go forth without a hitch in your preparations.

Where it gains context and relevance is combining our surgeries with how badly we fell away vs Port Adelaide and then further supported by our overall conditioning of players in our senior list.

The overall landscape of our team is that we are having real problems playing four quarters.  It indicates its been an issue for us where we havent got bodies right be it due to the surgery, due to not having booked the indoor stadium in Arizona, or even just due to the fact that we are coming off a historically lower fitness base combined with an average pre-season.  If 2012 was an injury interupted year, 2013 was not remarkably better and 2014 is the 3rd year in a row where bodies havent done the amount of work we would like them to have done to be in tip top condition.  (thinking of blokes like Carrazzo, Murphy and Judd).

It may not be the case, but I flash back to round 1, and I remember Henderson and Murphy having taken marks from within scoring range (30-50 metres out) and electing to pass off to people in poorer positions to score, and with arguably less chance of hitting the target.  Where that occurs it points to a lack of confidence in the body.

At the end of the day, as time goes on we are seeing a better ability to run as well as contest.  Tells us some information regarding our pre season not being a good one, and that is something that I would hope gets rectified going into next season as this is no way to begin a season.  One thing I do know of is that we have a few blokes that have had injury interrupted years sequentially.  This is not something that can be fixed in one pre season.  You lose lots of running power in that process.  Think back to Brock Mclean.  It took him roughly 2+ years to get going.

Personally, i dont like using injuries as an excuse.  If your good enough, odds are you will win anyway.  The only thing I can use it as is a reason for why we were so down on confidence.  Thats understandable.  The boys need to gather the mental fortitude to not drop their heads because of a bit of adversity and just keep motoring on.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #156 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Not really, just want to know what we are talking about? Did 22 players miss because they had knee recos or did they miss having a clean out straight after the season which they recover from before they start training? Were the 22 players ones who get games or rookies?

Did our opponents also have 20+ players out with surgery too, if so why are ours important but theirs aren't? Or is 22 typical? Ratten's last year had 25+ post season surgeries (from memory) for example. Maybe 22 is actually pretty good.

Without a reference point the number is meaningless.

That's just detail I suppose?

If you want to know so badly then do your own research. I'm not going to waste my time so you can just make some humorous comment about Kreuzer being in a moon boot because of a broken toe nail.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #157 –
It's reasonable to ask for proof.

All this would not be under discussion if the club had not contradicted itself. Now after about half a dozen attempts they are handing out the same story, but which version was true the first or the last?

It's a reasonable question.
The Force Awakens!
 

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #158 –
Don't forget they trotted out the ol' 'list is no good argument' last season as well.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #159 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Not really, just want to know what we are talking about? Did 22 players miss because they had knee recos or did they miss having a clean out straight after the season which they recover from before they start training? Were the 22 players ones who get games or rookies?

Did our opponents also have 20+ players out with surgery too, if so why are ours important but theirs aren't? Or is 22 typical? Ratten's last year had 25+ post season surgeries (from memory) for example. Maybe 22 is actually pretty good.

Without a reference point the number is meaningless.

That's just detail I suppose?

If you want to know so badly then do your own research. I'm not going to waste my time so you can just make some humorous comment about Kreuzer being in a moon boot because of a broken toe nail.

I'm not the one who brought it up or said the surgeries are one reason we are playing better. Why should I do the research to support the claim? Seems it's unfounded and meaningless and I am happy to leave it as that.

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #160 –
It's fact, not a claim.

From this forum on October 17th 2013

"Carlton CEO Greg Swann has been interviewed on Melbourne radio station SEN 1116 this morning. To summarise:

- He said Matthew Kreuzer was among 17 Blues to have minor post-season surgery, on his foot and knee. He will be fine for round one of next season."

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #161 –
Never said surgeries weren't fact. The claim is on their impact and if it's atypical.

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #162 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Don't forget they trotted out the ol' 'list is no good argument' last season as well.

No not the 'ol list Carrots - just some of it!  ;)
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #163 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Never said surgeries weren't fact. The claim is on their impact and if it's atypical.

The fact that they were post season as opposed to preseason suggests they shouldn't have affected the players. But who would believe the self server Swann anyway? He's got no reason to make excuses has he??
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Will it stand up?

Reply #164 –
I believe there were 36/37 players who went to Arizona... That suggests a fair amount were fit in December.
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset