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Topic: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks (Read 45029 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #105 –
Quote from: Lappinlappystick on
Quote from: kruddler on
Quote from: Lappinlappystick on
Carrazzo was very good last night. Not sure why he's copping it TBH.

I think he was adequate, i wouldn't say he was very good. He didn't really have a huge impact on the game, apart from that turnover which worked against him.

He was far from alone, but getting BOG from both sides according to Ch 7 is a complete joke.

Yeah, I don't agree that he was BOG. But I thought he tipped the scales to the v.good because his defensive game dramatically reduced his opponent's influence. While he may not have had a huge impact offensively, he still managed to get plenty of it, and use it well.

It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #106 –
Carrazzo was far from our worst, did the job on Lewis and had plenty of it but he's never really going to do much damage, his kicking has always been up and under like Mil Hanna and it lacks penetration, if his handballs are missing targets as well his effectiveness really suffers.
No goals from any of our midfielders which has been a recurring theme at Carlton for a decade, basically Hwathorn just too polished and efficient with the ball, our constant skill errors continue to haunt us and cost us matches.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #107 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.

No, i just don't remember thinking too often, if ever, going, "wow, that was great by carrazzo." Casboult, Robinson, Judd, Rowe....all had those moments.

Without the error, i think he was certainly adequate, but clearly BOG? Forget about it.

If carrots wasn't there and we played Graham in a similar role, we'd probably have a similar outcome. Plenty of the ball, no obvious impact on the game.
Defensively he did a good job, but so did Rowe.

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #108 –
I personally thought he played well. Any doubts are probably more to do with fact that the end is closer than we would have liked. He's had the last 2 years robbed by injury
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #109 –
Quote from: kruddler on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.

No, i just don't remember thinking too often, if ever, going, "wow, that was great by carrazzo." Casboult, Robinson, Judd, Rowe....all had those moments.

Without the error, i think he was certainly adequate, but clearly BOG? Forget about it.

If carrots wasn't there and we played Graham in a similar role, we'd probably have a similar outcome. Plenty of the ball, no obvious impact on the game.
Defensively he did a good job, but so did Rowe.

I thought he clearly had an impact in the game offensively, anyone that has 9 score involvements (most for the game) is impacting the game offensively. That means that over a quarter of his disposals resulted in shots at goal down the track.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #110 –
Wasn't last night a reminder of what Wayne Hughes has done to this football club over the last decade?

Hawthorn Players:

- Sublime skills
- Quick by hand and foot
- Decisive
- Flexible (multiple positions)
- One touch players (no fumbling)
- Fit and pacy
- Run and spread for days


Carlton Players:

- Too many plodders
- Slow by hand and foot
- Indecisive
- Poorly skilled
- Slow and lack of spread
- Fumblers

Make no mistake MM coached well last night. There's only so much he can do with this list. We essentially won that game last week against a very good side and we managed to make a contest with an elite outfit last night. I'm confident that with a restructure of the list MM can take us to the top.

Hawthorn players looked much quicker than us tonight and their skills are something to behold. Mclean looked like an old man in comparison. Breust, Puopolo, Hill, Smith, Riolo, all rotate through the middle and they are all quick and skillful. Get with the times Carlton - we need to draft for this.

Roughead even played in the middle last night alongside Ceglar and won clearances LOL

Anyway, last night was not the end of the world. It just showed where our list is at more than anything. We need a complete restructuring of the recruitment department and some astute trading then good things might come and sooner than you might think.

Toddy

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #111 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: kruddler on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.

No, i just don't remember thinking too often, if ever, going, "wow, that was great by carrazzo." Casboult, Robinson, Judd, Rowe....all had those moments.

Without the error, i think he was certainly adequate, but clearly BOG? Forget about it.

If carrots wasn't there and we played Graham in a similar role, we'd probably have a similar outcome. Plenty of the ball, no obvious impact on the game.
Defensively he did a good job, but so did Rowe.

I thought he clearly had an impact in the game offensively, anyone that has 9 score involvements (most for the game) is impacting the game offensively. That means that over a quarter of his disposals resulted in shots at goal down the track.

But was his part in them instrumental or was he simply a link man? I honestly didn't notice anything that really stood out to me.

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #112 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: Brettie on
Quote from: Professer E on
PII2C... watch the tape... so many slow, high, loopy kicks to contests that we invariably lost.  Dreadful from a senior player who should know better.  I counted at least 8 of them.  Plus an awful F50 at a blokes feet, plus the sloppy handball.

If you kick short you kick it hard flat and fast you don't lob it on a spot and invite a bloke to come in and kill the marking attempt.

Absolutely spot on Professer E. Though it wouldn't be picked up by those watching the game on TV, Carrazzo takes an eternity to dispose of the ball & in doing so, has rendered some good options upfield as utterly useless by the time he gets to making a decision to kick the damn thing & even then, as you correctly said, his kicks are high & loopy = totally ineffective.

I'll take Curnow over Carrazzo anyday of the week.

Mate did not attend the game but I'll guarantee you we lose by a lot more without Carrazzo in the side. 32 touches both inside and out with 80+ % efficiency and 1 clanger. 9 score involvements has him with equal most on ground as well as 15 pressure acts, up there with the best. You guys see that one error and judge his game on it, delusion is not a strong enough word, he held us together last night. If 7-8 of his kicks were looping and slow that leaves 24 great disposals, better than average across the AFL.

You look at someone like Baggers that says we can't play blokes like Graham because they're not ready and would ruin the club's culture but then wants Carrazzo to hang up the boots. I have never heard of someone being told to hang up the boots after 32 touches and a host of other stats like that, pretty much BOG. Just a stupid comment.

I don't think some of you really know what you want, but on that performance, Carrazzo is light years ahead of most of our list.

Just to be clear a handball that hits the target, which is another Carlton player about to be tackled is counted as effective. Carrazzo slowed the play time after time last night and sold players into terrible positions, particularly by hand.
What happened to my old profile?????

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #113 –
If a few times is time after time in your eyes so be it. Just so we're clear, time after time would account for how many of his disposals? 19%? I remember the moment you are talking about, it happened once. He also wheeled onto his left and kicked a scrubber early in the game and that awful handball late as we've talked about. But most of the time, he took the right option and hit the target. Like I said, some of you only see what you want to see with this bloke.

@kruddler

There were no standout plays or big moments that I could remember but he was fantastic in close with his handballs, that's what stood out to me. He ran hard all night to provide an option when we got the ball and managed to rack up 32 touches doing so. 25 uncontested so that's 25 times he got to the right position to receive and around 80% of the time his disposal was effective and quite a few of them went on to be goals. It was a typical Carrazzo game and he was back somewhere close to the player we used to have other than his fitness which affected him in the end.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!
 

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #114 –
Quote from: toddy on
Hawthorn players looked much quicker than us tonight and their skills are something to behold. Mclean looked like an old man in comparison. Breust, Puopolo, Hill, Smith, Riolo, all rotate through the middle and they are all quick and skillful. Get with the times Carlton - we need to draft for this.

Everyone who watched the game would have noticed the same thing, but a lot of it comes from confidence.
Hawthorn has been thereabouts since they finished 5th in 2007 and they've won couple of flags since, the players expect success.
They expect to hit targets, they expect to nail all of their set shots and they expect to kick most of the difficult ones as well, Suckling drifted forward for a couple last night and he didn't look like missing, young players called on to play in the senior team are expecte to perform at their best, it's all a part of a winning culture that feeds on itself and leads to more wins and self belief.
You won't hear Hawthorn supporters saying that this bloke or that "wasn't too bad", or that he "did a couple of nice things", they simply don't accept players who can't execute basic skills.
Carlton players are used to mediocrity, I'm not saying they don't aspire to better but it's a hard cycle to break, Murphy is one of the elite players in the competition and hasn't played in a team that's gone into the third week of a finals series, at least sub consciously he probably doesn't expect to beat the best teams.
Malthouse's biggest challenge is to instil self belief in all our players, not only our best half a dozen.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #115 –
What's stood out most, apart from their skill under pressure, was that even their tall blokes seemed to have speed.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #116 –
Must say, was impressed with their coach In the presser.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #117 –
I thought the Blues were good.
Pleased with Rowe's efforts and Casboult has stepped up a big notch. We always knew he could clunk, but he is playing like a powerful big man,on the ground, in the packs.
One has to hand it to MickM.
He is doing a great job!

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #118 –
Quote from: Professer E on
Raw stats mean squat.  Graham had meaningless possessions and I doubt Carazzo had a truly effective stat in the second half.... Sure it may have been effective according to a statisician but in reality they weren't.  Watch the game.

On fire Professer E - loving your work.....
Football is life, there is nothing else....

Re: R13 : Carlton drowned by the Hawks

Reply #119 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: Lappinlappystick on
Quote from: kruddler on
Quote from: Lappinlappystick on
Carrazzo was very good last night. Not sure why he's copping it TBH.

I think he was adequate, i wouldn't say he was very good. He didn't really have a huge impact on the game, apart from that turnover which worked against him.

He was far from alone, but getting BOG from both sides according to Ch 7 is a complete joke.

Yeah, I don't agree that he was BOG. But I thought he tipped the scales to the v.good because his defensive game dramatically reduced his opponent's influence. While he may not have had a huge impact offensively, he still managed to get plenty of it, and use it well.

It's the Carrazzo factor. He makes one error, late in the game when it's all over and everyone's frustrated and that's what they remember.

Wow - your Carrazzo obsession is quite outstanding.....in this particular case & in all due respect, your not being at the game makes your opinion of Carrazzo's performance irrelevant & just plain wrong.
Football is life, there is nothing else....