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Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #90
Sooo, does this mean under Ratten we were too attacking and now under MM we are too defensive?
Can't we just play bl**dy football.
Boys today... see ball get ball... let the boys play.

Under MM they seem in two minds as to what to do with the ball, hence making the wrong decision a fair bit of the time. I can't remember a time when we have kicked it straight to an opposition player. Not just an over kick or a kick just wide of our player but primary school stuff of passing straight to them. Jeez if we hit up our forwards as well as we lace out oppo players they would be talking up or kicking skills. ::)

Why can't we have two or three stay at home forwards ALL THE TIME  :o
I've been wondering that for a while now. Since we're so slow at getting the ball in the forward line why don't we start a few of our forwards in the square then all lead out into space? It's a forward line huddle! Manning up creates space, not manning up leaves a strong marker (Cas, Hendo, etc) free.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #91
I am not 100% sure how AFL define their Clangers stat however I googled it and Ted Hopkins of Champion Data defines it as a Turnover or mistake. I was staggered to learn that in 2014, Carlton had the fewest total number of Clangers of any Club. You read it correctly, the fewest. 912 for the year to be exact. PA made the most with 1151. So far this year, we have the 4th fewest. So it seems though that we get scored heavily against us from our TO's (or clangers) which means its all about where, who and how we turn it over perhaps.

Most teams if they turnover the ball in their high half forward area are usually cut up. Most teams are pretty effective at setting up around halfback and capitalising on a mistake. Being able to quickly regroup is something the best sides can do, although even the best find it difficult.  The hawthorn v bulldogs game on the weekend showed this quite a bit, even the doggies were able to cut through ok at times if they forced a turnover. Hawthorn are good at getting the ball a little deeper in too, which makes it easier to defend a turnover situation.  They do this by keeping possession in the middle and getting it delivered from the edge of the square.  Good footskills help of course.

This is therefore why perhaps carlton are getting it wrong in that they are delivering forward from too far back. We did much better last week. This week needs to see better conversion to finish it off.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #92
I am not 100% sure how AFL define their Clangers stat however I googled it and Ted Hopkins of Champion Data defines it as a Turnover or mistake. I was staggered to learn that in 2014, Carlton had the fewest total number of Clangers of any Club. You read it correctly, the fewest. 912 for the year to be exact. PA made the most with 1151. So far this year, we have the 4th fewest. So it seems though that we get scored heavily against us from our TO's (or clangers) which means its all about where, who and how we turn it over perhaps.
this hurt us more than anything against both Richmond and Essendon and even to a lesser degree against West Coast.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #93
One of the problems MadBlueBoy has brought to our attention that I agree with is our running. You can turn the ball over as every club does here and there. If your not prepared to run back hard to defend you will lose on the scoreboard every time. No matter where it is you turn the ball over. Sydney, Hawthorn, Adelaide and Fremantle turn the ball over many times too. However they run back to cover space and place so much pressure on the ball carrier, that they eventually get the ball back into their hands.

Apply pressure with tackles and helping your team mates at all times. Run in numbers. This will have the other side under pressure to begin with. They will cough the ball up more often. Once you turn the ball over, all should be running back hard to pressure the other side. Some of the times they will double back if they can't see a free player forward, and you nail them as they don't expect to have players coming back hard behind them. Running into a wall of players. Something like this needs to be employed to be proactive. Not reactive during a game. If the work rate is low to medium, skill errors occur due to lack of confidence in the entire side. They don't have belief in the forwards to grab what they should. Before we get a list of players with real talent by foot, we need an elevated work rate. Plain and simple.

You can't change the skill level of what you have, therefore you need to find a way to make them work. Plug holes with players at the end of the season.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #94
One of the problems MadBlueBoy has brought to our attention that I agree with is our running. You can turn the ball over as every club does here and there. If your not prepared to run back hard to defend you will lose on the scoreboard every time. No matter where it is you turn the ball over. Sydney, Hawthorn, Adelaide and Fremantle turn the ball over many times too. However they run back to cover space and place so much pressure on the ball carrier, that they eventually get the ball back into their hands.

Apply pressure with tackles and helping your team mates at all times. Run in numbers. This will have the other side under pressure to begin with. They will cough the ball up more often. Once you turn the ball over, all should be running back hard to pressure the other side. Some of the times they will double back if they can't see a free player forward, and you nail them as they don't expect to have players coming back hard behind them. Running into a wall of players. Something like this needs to be employed to be proactive. Not reactive during a game. If the work rate is low to medium, skill errors occur due to lack of confidence in the entire side. They don't have belief in the forwards to grab what they should. Before we get a list of players with real talent by foot, we need an elevated work rate. Plain and simple.

You can't change the skill level of what you have, therefore you need to find a way to make them work. Plug holes with players at the end of the season.
I heard Hinkley on radio on Sunday. He was talking about how good a running group they are. He said he won't claim they are the fittest in the league but said their "numbers" as a group are elite. He doesn't know what other teams numbers are but he knows his teams are right up there. He coaches them to this strength, running.  I think it was Ebert he singled out, he said he was the best 2 way runner he has every seen.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #95
Hence DontgoJuddy it becomes easier to build a strong group around a side that can work hard both ways. It doesn't need huge levels of skill and talent. Just pure hard work. Something we haven't had for years. When we execute this style of play in the first quarter, its funny how we establish a lead on the scoreboard so fast. The ball enters the forward 50m without defenders being ready, and we manage to score.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #96
Hence DontgoJuddy it becomes easier to build a strong group around a side that can work hard both ways. It doesn't need huge levels of skill and talent. Just pure hard work. Something we haven't had for years. When we execute this style of play in the first quarter, its funny how we establish a lead on the scoreboard so fast. The ball enters the forward 50m without defenders being ready, and we manage to score.
So Buttifant is a dud.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #97
Got my tickets, looking forward to watching the boys do us proud on Anzac Day. And being in the company of Kiwis makes the event even more significant, for historical reasons... and for them to witness proper football.

Nice work Baggers, got my tickets too, but not as excited as I was when I booked them :D. I've been interstate 6 times for a 0-6 record, if this trip doesn't turn out well, then that's it, I'll never board a plane to watch Carlton ever again....the hint will have been finally acknowledged!!!
Football is life, there is nothing else....

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #98
Oi! I think that was me :P If not, it wouldn't be Brettie, he wouldn't dare be seen frequenting an unofficial fan site while strutting through the Medallion club or MCC

Lol....correct....wasn't mine, you can have that one ItsOurTime, I can't/won't take credit for that cracker. I couldn't frequent an unofficial fan site even if I wanted too anyway at the footy.....I refuse to get an smartphone, my little Nokia serves me just fine!!! Should see the looks of indignation I get in the MCC ;D (I only sit in the MCC for our away games.... :P)

Btw - anyone see the kicking efficiency stat on the scoreboard @ 3/4 time at the game on Saturday? It was 65% to 81%.....that's abysmal, we'd wanna be correcting that ASAP.....oh wait, I daresay we've been wanting to do that for about 3 years and counting.....
Football is life, there is nothing else....

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #99
I stand corrected. IOT takes the credit for the best one-liner.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #100
So Buttifant is a dud.

If he can't keep us running. The coach must wear some responsibility and every player must be held accountable more than anything. A willingness to work. Not just a lack of fitness. Blame the club as a whole.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #101
I am not 100% sure how AFL define their Clangers stat however I googled it and Ted Hopkins of Champion Data defines it as a Turnover or mistake. I was staggered to learn that in 2014, Carlton had the fewest total number of Clangers of any Club. You read it correctly, the fewest. 912 for the year to be exact. PA made the most with 1151. So far this year, we have the 4th fewest. So it seems though that we get scored heavily against us from our TO's (or clangers) which means its all about where, who and how we turn it over perhaps.
It's really hard to kick a clanger when you're kicking long to a contest on the boundary.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #102
I don't think we are lessed skilled than other teams, we just have an extra degree of difficulty in our execution.

Compare our ball use with that of our opponents.  When we get possession, particularly in a clearance or contested situation, the ball is thrown onto the boot and it's a 50-50 proposition whether it goes to our advantage.  This was particularly evident against Essendon where we won the clearances but turned the ball over before the second or third possession.

Most, if not all, other teams use a string of handpasses to get the ball to a runner in the clear.  This results in a balanced kick not under pressure or a couple of bounces and a measured kick. 

Our reluctance to handpass creatively means that our disposal by foot is under pressure and misdirected as a result.

 

DJ....We are dumber than most and our players dont want responsibility and you are on your own out there...eg .poor Judd gest the break in the middle of the ground goes for a run with his old legs and gets tackled from behind...other teams would have let him know to get rid off the footy or make position for him closer by so he could dish the ball off...not our team they just let him get swallowed up and then allowed that little maggot Melksham to rub it in. It was sad watching a champ get ditched by his teammates and shows you how lacking we are in spirit IMO....
Its hard top be creative when you mates dont back you up and you have to play safe every kick/handpass...

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #103
The team that owns the corridor invariably wins the game = fact.

Yet our "game plan" seems to be predicated on ball movement that uses the outer part of the ground yet we surrender the corridor to the opposition.  Any surprise that the best performed clubs of the last decade (Geelong, Swans and Hawks) own the corridor, and the current worst club (US) avoids it???

Even perennial hacks like St Kilda are developing a central corridor ball movement gameplan... my question to this club is, why the F aren't we????

cue crickets chirrrping.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #104
The team that owns the corridor invariably wins the game = fact.

Yet our "game plan" seems to be predicated on ball movement that uses the outer part of the ground yet we surrender the corridor to the opposition.  Any surprise that the best performed clubs of the last decade (Geelong, Swans and Hawks) own the corridor, and the current worst club (US) avoids it???

Even perennial hacks like St Kilda are developing a central corridor ball movement gameplan... my question to this club is, why the F aren't we????

cue crickets chirrrping.

We were in the NAB cup....were as good at it as Geelong was too.

Since then, it hasn't quite worked out that way.
That could be because
1. We have changed the game plan since the NAB cup.
2. The players are not playing as directed, like they did in the NAB Cup.
3. The opposition are not allowing us to play in the same manner