Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart (Read 32228 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #165 –
Quote from: Lods on
No real argument Kruds other than I'd give equal weight to "body on body" strength.
It's what made Stephen Silvagni so hard to play on.
While not super huge in the upper body he had great lower body power.

SOS's thighs doubled in size over his career to serve that very purpose...and he was the best at it.

While there is still a place in todays game for being good body on body, its relevance compared to SOSs era is reduced to next to nothing for the modern day players.

Simply the amount of contests where that becomes useful is a lot less than it was previously IMO.

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #166 –
Quote from: kruddler on
SOS's thighs doubled in size over his career to serve that very purpose...and he was the best at it.

While there is still a place in todays game for being good body on body, its relevance compared to SOSs era is reduced to next to nothing for the modern day players.

Simply the amount of contests where that becomes useful is a lot less than it was previously IMO.

I've seen us beaten in those body on body contests a few times in the last couple of weeks ;)
Your whipping boy Weitering a couple of times has been man handled.

Opposition teams waltz through our tackles.

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #167 –
Quote from: Lods on
I've seen us beaten in those body on body contests a few times in the last couple of weeks ;)
Your whipping boy Weitering a couple of times has been man handled.

Opposition teams waltz through our tackles.

a few times in a couple of weeks? Is that it? Sos used to get in those contests a few times each quarter, every quarter, every week.

Thats my point. Its a skill that can not be utilised as much as it could in the past.

I'm not dismissing it as useful, but think about it this way.
How many forwards kick goals from set shots off a lead.
How many forwards kick goals from pack marks.
....joe the goose..
...free kicks...

vs

How many forwards kick goals from winning a 1 on 1 wrestle with their opponent?

Compare that to 2 decades ago.
Big difference.

Yes, tackling is another issue but how many times do you see a Fraser Brown vs Wellman tackle in a game and how many times do you see a chase down tackle from behind in a game?
The latter is far more frequent and requires speed. Hence why it is ranked above almost all else in todays game.

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #168 –
Can we channel abit of this spirit tonight please?

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2018-04-13/classic-matches-kangaroos
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #169 –
Quote from: kruddler on
a few times in a couple of weeks? Is that it? Sos used to get in those contests a few times each quarter, every quarter, every week.

Thats my point. Its a skill that can not be utilised as much as it could in the past.

I'm not dismissing it as useful, but think about it this way.
How many forwards kick goals from set shots off a lead.
How many forwards kick goals from pack marks.
....joe the goose..
...free kicks...

vs

How many forwards kick goals from winning a 1 on 1 wrestle with their opponent?

Compare that to 2 decades ago.
Big difference.

Yes, tackling is another issue but how many times do you see a Fraser Brown vs Wellman tackle in a game and how many times do you see a chase down tackle from behind in a game?
The latter is far more frequent and requires speed. Hence why it is ranked above almost all else in todays game.

My point is that we rarely win these contests.
Our tackles are easily brushed aside and apart from a couple of players (Curnow, Cripps) we rarely break tackles.
We are a physically weak side...part of that is youth...and strength is a variable that can be improved significantly from age 18 to 22..whereas speed is pretty much settled.

While in the current game the trend may be for speed (and I'm not discounting that) we know trends change.

But really ...How many of these rely on speed?

Quote
How many forwards kick goals from set shots off a lead.
How many forwards kick goals from pack marks.
....joe the goose..
...free kicks...

Probably the player on the lead...but that's more about reaction time than speed.

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #170 –
North have certainly had the wood over us scoring 113+ . They have a very encouraging w-l differential in The Apple isle. FWIW I think they'll get over the line this round. I've taken someone's tipping tip this week, tipping against our own... that was challenging. So go ahead Blues - prove me wrong, shame me, do whatever it takes to get the win in Tassie. Do it for Bolts even.

I realize we're not running on all cylinders and that will take time and tinkering.
What I would love to see is: 4q effort relative to development, on field leadership, timely coaching flexibility, and never give up competitiveness.
Assuming the MC have preceded all this with a fit matched selection, we should see a good contest.

Go Blues - get this kangaroo monkey off your back. 
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #171 –
Quote from: Lods on
But really ...How many of these rely on speed?

Probably the player on the lead...but that's more about reaction time than speed.

To not overcomplicate issues, my reference to speed included acceleration ie speed off the mark...players on the lead falling under that umbrella.

Joe the goose is probably an inability (or want) to get back on the fast break, so speed could be a factor...or at worse, good damage limitation.
Pack marks probably comes down to height.

So 3 out of the 4 comes down to the 2 key factors i mentioned, height and speed.

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #172 –
Quote from: kruddler on
To not overcomplicate issues, my reference to speed included acceleration ie speed off the mark...players on the lead falling under that umbrella.

Joe the goose is probably an inability (or want) to get back on the fast break, so speed could be a factor...or at worse, good damage limitation.
Pack marks probably comes down to height.

So 3 out of the 4 comes down to the 2 key factors i mentioned, height and speed.

Joe the Goose is always 100% caused by extra numbers around the ball carrier, speed is never the issue. No extra numbers, no Joe the Goose, and it is rarely if ever caused by the defence, it's nearly always caused by players allowing overlap further up the field.
The Force Awakens!

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #173 –
Pack marks....yep... Heights an advantage but it's more about timing and leap.

Many variables...and the winner of one contest is not always the winner of the next one. ;)

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #174 –
Quote from: Lods on
Pack marks....yep... Heights an advantage but it's more about timing and leap.

Many variables...and the winner of one contest is not always the winner of the next one. ;)

Most of the AFLs best pack marking players are 190cm or under.

A 200cm type marking on the lead has little to do with speed, and more about timing and strength. Most 200cm types taking lead up marks result from strength to dispose of the defender before the break and are done and dusted within two or three steps. Some rely on aerobic capacity, guys who run two or three dummy leads, but that isn't about speed either, that is about finding a match up that has size and equal endurance.

atm., Probably the only genuine KPF who can boast a significant speed advantage over the typical defender is Franklin. Franklin is so unique because he's got it all.

FYI, a Weitering article today.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-04-14/how-is-weiterings-first-45-tracking-against-the-best
The Force Awakens!
 

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #175 –
Weather pretty good down here actually, Carlton supporters absolutely everywhere ????????????
Football is life, there is nothing else....

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #176 –
Quote from: Brettie on
Weather pretty good down here actually, Carlton supporters absolutely everywhere ????????????

Help our boys bring it home Brettie and fellow Bluebaggers

Go Blues
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #178 –
I reckon we'll learn a bit from the effort shown tonight.
Hoping for a positive showing.
Stand tall!

Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart

Reply #179 –
Quote from: Lods on
I reckon we'll learn a bit from the effort shown tonight.
Hoping for a positive showing.
Stand tall!

I expect to win...Nth are on the way down, have average leadership and  few stars, doesnt get much easier than Nth IMO apart from maybe Brisbane down in Melbourne....
No excuses IMO if we lose tonight, weather seems good, neutral venue......