2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

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Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #105 – April 09, 2015, 10:32:28 am

Quote from: townsendcalling on April 09, 2015, 06:53:10 am

Tutt, Ellard, Armfield and Casboult all on the plane to Perth in a squad of 24.

I love Davey Ellard but... Does anyone else feel a sense of dread when these names are our next best in line for a game.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #106 – April 09, 2015, 10:35:01 am

Ellard and Casboult are clearly in my best team. Armfield isn't as he had a poor 2014 but we do need to inject some pace into the side after our pathetic chasing efforts last week.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #107 – April 09, 2015, 10:59:19 am

Quote from: shadesy on April 09, 2015, 10:32:28 am

I love Davey Ellard but... Does anyone else feel a sense of dread when these names are our next best in line for a game.

One thing is for sure he gives 100%, it's just that his 100% it's only about 80% of what he actually needs to be a part of an AFL team! It's not his fault, it's his limitations.

So yes some dread, he's our club version of a DUFF.

How we still have Ellard while Kane Lambert gets a gig at Nthmond is a puzzle! I suggest our 2s coaching crew has some hard questions it needs to answer!

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #108 – April 09, 2015, 11:02:33 am

Pretty sure Ellard has a trip to Perth written in his contract.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #109 – April 09, 2015, 11:05:03 am

Quote from: LP on April 09, 2015, 10:59:19 am

One thing is for sure he gives 100%, it's just that his 100% it's only about 80% of what he actually needs to be a part of an AFL team! It's not his fault, it's his limitations.

So yes some dread, he's our club version of a DUFF.

How we still have Ellard while Kane Lambert gets a gig at Nthmond is a puzzle! I suggest our 2s coaching crew has some hard questions it needs to answer!

Webster seems to be acting on strict orders from the senior coaching group at Ikon Park from what I read yesterday, with CFC players filling roles in the NBs as directed. Not sure how that works out but the outcomes in terms of player development don't seem too flash that's for sure.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #110 – April 09, 2015, 11:07:46 am

Quote from: DJC on April 08, 2015, 11:27:18 pm

Do we have a tackling coach? I don't think we do. We have had a tradition of utilizing rugby players as tackling coaches (my PE teacher Paddy McGoldrick was tackling coach in the 1960s) and we worked with Melbourne Storm when they trained at Princes Park.

He was my PE teacher also, which school DJC?

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #111 – April 09, 2015, 11:14:45 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton on April 09, 2015, 11:07:46 am

He was my PE teacher also, which school DJC?

Newlands High School in Murray Rd, Coburg, next to Pentridge.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #112 – April 09, 2015, 11:29:37 am

Quote from: LP on April 09, 2015, 10:59:19 am

One thing is for sure he gives 100%, it's just that his 100% it's only about 80% of what he actually needs to be a part of an AFL team! It's not his fault, it's his limitations.

So yes some dread, he's our club version of a DUFF.

How we still have Ellard while Kane Lambert gets a gig at Nthmond is a puzzle! I suggest our 2s coaching crew has some hard questions it needs to answer!

I don't buy that argument LP.

Ellard when fit and playing VFL racks up more quality possessions that Lambert ever would. Before he made his debut, he as having ridiculous numbers and won the Northen Bullants Best and Fairest in 2009.

We look longingly at someone like Kane Lambert, when in reality, Davey Ellard is above his standard and is an AFL standard player. If he wasn't on our list, he would probably win a Sandover or JJ Liston and we would be sitting here debating how he would be someone we should draft next year.

The argument is Back to Front.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #113 – April 09, 2015, 11:54:14 am

Quote from: DJC on April 09, 2015, 11:14:45 am

Newlands High School in Murray Rd, Coburg, next to Pentridge.

Ah ok, he taught me at Thornbury High School. Hard as nails the old fella was. He was a coach for the Vic Rugby Union Team if I recall.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #114 – April 09, 2015, 12:04:18 pm

Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on April 09, 2015, 06:28:06 am

I don't think it's a work rate thing I think it's a confidence thing. For whatever reason our boys are rooted to the spot, perhaps afraid to break team rules or make an error? Our best players used to love to burst forward of the ball, that is but a remnant of a bygone era for us.

Just on this, i think perception is clouding judgement a little.

Off the ball I saw a whole host of players making a lead, or an option, only for them to be ignored until the decision to pass to them was too late, and they had an opponent on them. The flow on effect of having ignored that option once or twice, means that come the third or fourth time, the player making that option has already decided the ball isnt coming their way, and then they either stop making that effort, or worse still make that effort half baked. Working for no good reason will render any player useless quickly. In soccer it is a dead set killer, and I would imagine it would be no different in footy.

The issue is, the bloke in posession, taking too long to move it on, or thinking about their decision making too much. This is a repetition, learning, error. Our players make poor decisions. Particularly under pressure. This has been the case for years. In the past, the Ratten game plan was simple in this regard. Kick long to a big man, or bomb to the forwardline when under extreme pressure and it masked the problem because we had a ruckman with 3 nippy blokes down there, or a dead set legend in Fev who could make crap into gold in terms of delivery because of the way he hunted the footy. We forget, he was required to kick most of his goals outside 50, and the only thing that made it okay was the fact that his conversion of set shots outside of fifty was greater than 60% across his career.

We have not drilled our blokes well enough over the years in terms of making good decisions, and good delivery to create opportunities for our forwards. The result is players reluctant to lead (ignored options plus crap delivery).

We have a way to go, but you wont see any of the top teams do this. They might play direct footy, but they never ever just hit and hope with their kicking.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #115 – April 09, 2015, 12:15:00 pm

@Thry

OK, but it really puzzles me that it's taking our guys so long to learn this, surely Mick would be right on it and drilling it into their minds?? Or is it again reflective of poor onfield leadership?

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #116 – April 09, 2015, 12:21:26 pm

Re Cacboult and Warnock, I don't reckon either should play. Casboult is out of form and hasn't earned his spot, Warnock like Walker and Kreuzer should come back via the magoos.

Unfortunately we look like needing 1 to play, it looks like Casboult got the nod.

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #117 – April 09, 2015, 12:29:04 pm

Quote from: Amers on April 09, 2015, 12:21:26 pm

Re Cacboult and Warnock, I don't reckon either should play. Casboult is out of form and hasn't earned his spot, Warnock like Walker and Kreuzer should come back via the magoos.

Unfortunately we look like needing 1 to play, it looks like Casboult got the nod.

Amers, I think we will try and exploit WCE's KPD injuries so Casboult may be a good choice even if his form has been down so far. Could in fact play him back into form?

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #118 – April 09, 2015, 01:00:53 pm

Quote from: shadesy on April 09, 2015, 11:29:37 am

I don't buy that argument LP.

Ellard when fit and playing VFL racks up more quality possessions that Lambert ever would. Before he made his debut, he as having ridiculous numbers and won the Northen Bullants Best and Fairest in 2009.

We look longingly at someone like Kane Lambert, when in reality, Davey Ellard is above his standard and is an AFL standard player. If he wasn't on our list, he would probably win a Sandover or JJ Liston and we would be sitting here debating how he would be someone we should draft next year.

The argument is Back to Front.

What did you think of McLean's selection back in the day?

Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton

Reply #119 – April 09, 2015, 01:18:22 pm

Quote from: cookie2 on April 09, 2015, 12:15:00 pm

@Thry

OK, but it really puzzles me that it's taking our guys so long to learn this, surely Mick would be right on it and drilling it into their minds?? Or is it again reflective of poor onfield leadership?

I think it might be a learned behaviour. I did point to Ratten's game plan masking the problem. It would be very easy for a player to slip back into old habits (particularly when fatigued) and given the Malthouse game plan requires everyone being on the same page, it makes it hard when players perform the above.

Some will point to this being more astute coaching by Ratten, and they might be right, but thats a matter of philosophy rather than bonafide clear black and white decision making.

Contrast it to Hawthorn. Each and every kick is put into an area designed to maximise their advantage, and unsettle their opponent. Have a look at the method deployed to really stifle us. Richmond waited for the eventual turnover at half back with the loose man to launch a counter attack. Would Ratten's game plan have helped here? Im not so confident.

The hardest thing to do in the face of pressure, is maintain your composure. That's probably the key to us improving. If we can master our composure and confidence under pressure we will improve very quickly.