Covid-19 or no, I feel very ripped off with this fixture. having to play games in Geelong when we can't play them at Ikon is ... not satisfactory. Not in the least. Just another of those anti-Carlton things that have become a part of the AFL.
On the playing front, Geelong played well against Hawthorn.
We will get smashed by 10 goals plus at KP against Dads Army
Covid-19 or no, I feel very ripped off with this fixture. having to play games in Geelong when we can't play them at Ikon is ... not satisfactory. Not in the least. Just another of those anti-Carlton things that have become a part of the AFL.
On the playing front, Geelong played well against Hawthorn.
It will probably cost them more money playing at their stadium than it would us travelling there.
Its a blessing in disguise.
If we can channel some of the 2nd half stuff into the 1st half, we are a chance. Their rucks are not a patch on Gawn. However, our midfield really needs to be working for 4 quarters.
To be honest, I can't see us doing it, but we are not without a chance. But we have to squash their ball winners. We don't do that enough.
In Williamson Silvagni Philps
Out Lang Newman Newnes
Get the vaseline ready...
Its gonna be ugly.
Play like the whorks did and we'll get smashed.
Hope Teague watched the game, pretty clear that springing straight down the ground from half back is the key. Tagging/playing close to Selwood and Ablett is key. The cats key forwards suck, it's their smaller crew that cut you up.
Play like the whorks did and we'll get smashed.
Hope Teague watched the game, pretty clear that springing straight down the ground from half back is the key. Tagging/playing close to Selwood and Ablett is key. The cats key forwards suck, it's their smaller crew that cut you up.
I can tell you what will happen if you like:
We will be asleep for the first qtr, they will kick 8 goals, we will half wake up in the 2nd and kick 2 to their 5. We ill play ok for the 3rd and 4th, lose but everyone will be happy with an honourable loss because its in Geel.
By the time we wake up and realise we are playing in a game of footy it will be pretty much game over. >:(
If we can channel some of the 2nd half stuff into the 1st half, we are a chance. Their rucks are not a patch on Gawn. However, our midfield really needs to be working for 4 quarters.
To be honest, I can't see us doing it, but we are not without a chance. But we have to squash their ball winners. We don't do that enough.
Can i please have some of what you are smoking?
In Williamson Silvagni Philps
Out Lang Newman Newnes
Newnes wasn't too bad once he'd settled in around his team mates, at least he has a crack.
Lang, he leaves guys like Martin, Gibbons and Betts to smash themselves on the inside and takes the cheap outside football, which leaves him as a luxury we cannot afford!
Not sure the McKay, McGovern, Casboult thing is going to work, none of them are much use close to goal and we get cleaned up on the last line of defense over and over again. SoJ would be nice to have in the forward pocket.
Hate cats with a passion. They have been up as long as we have been down. They are as professional and well drilled team as their is in the comp.
We are at the other end of the scale.
Even if we play well they will comfortably account for us.
If we don’t come to play they will hammer us.
Cats are OK at best, they seem better than they are because they play that ground ridiculously well and clubs get lost there.
Their rucks suck, they have no key forwards and they rely on brilliant individuals and an incredibly efficient defensive unit.
Make their defence accountable, don't turn the ball over coming out of defence like the whorks and watch their small forwards closely and they'll struggle, but we won't do any of these things. I'll call it now, Weeters will be BOG and Jones will take 14 marks.
Need to stop Stewart getting 30 possies at full back and not play bozo's on their second string mids like Duncan who actually do a lot more damage than their big names.
Got some big improvers in players like Parfitt too...it will be players like Myers who kick goals as our smaller defenders don't man up at all. Cripps will have another hard game with Cam Guthrie hanging off him all day... Guthrie gets a bit of ball too so Cripps will need some help.
We should improve and maybe surprise with Betts and Martin capable of winning us the game. Cats might be over confident, can only hope and try and stay positive..
Well, we've lost another one for the season (Newman), which hurts our defence.
It might give Williamson a chance to make a spot his.
But our #1 aim has to be stopping Geelong's midfield, without which they have little.
Other clubs have taggers: look at Matt de Boer. De Boer is one of the best in the business. Where are our taggers?
The only we have is Ed Curnow and he isn't doing a tagging job much any more. Stick him on Gablett: keep the bugger honest.
I'd love to be able to play Murphy in a forward pocket. But where are the next generation of mids to get the ball out of the middle?
We have a few guys who really need to have a good look at themselves.
Danger and Selwood and the Golden Sun Moth get all the kudos, but Duncan is a very, very damaging player. Stewart is another, I expect JSOS' role will be to keep him honest.
I'd give express instructions to go very hard on Cripps'minder....hello Pittonet after the bounce...and to really serve it up to their big three, none of whom like any attention. Why was Selwood by himself all night versus the Whorks? If Dangerflog starts squealing, they're in trouble. Selwood gets frees anyway, may as well make him earn it.
Taylor and Zac crap themselves if they have to defend.... So make them defend!
I reckon the cats are the most over rated outfit in the league, we can do this.
We won't finish within 10 goals of them
Danger and Selwood and the Golden Sun Moth get all the kudos, but Duncan is a very, very damaging player. Stewart is another, I expect JSOS' role will be to keep him honest.
I'd give express instructions to go very hard on Cripps'minder....hello Pittonet after the bounce...and to really serve it up to their big three, none of whom like any attention. Why was Selwood by himself all night versus the Whorks? If Dangerflog starts squealing, they're in trouble. Selwood gets frees anyway, may as well make him earn it.
Taylor and Zac crap themselves if they have to defend.... So make them defend!
I reckon the cats are the most over rated outfit in the league, we can do this.
Proff I agree the Cats list is overrated and aging. But they are well coached in the sense that they will not underestimate Carlton and wait until the 2nd qtr to start playing. They will take advantage of the home ground advantage and give them an absolute hiding. What will you all say if Carlton starts the game with a scoreless first qtr?
Based upon the last round we will be absolutely nailed to the cross. I am filled with dread. Continuing the religious theme I hope my prayers are answered and we find salvation.
Based upon the last round we will be absolutely nailed to the cross. I am filled with dread. Continuing the religious theme I hope my prayers are answered and we find salvation.
You could not ask for a worse fixture given Carltons predicament.
Not sure the McKay, McGovern, Casboult thing is going to work, none of them are much use close to goal and we get cleaned up on the last line of defense over and over again. SoJ would be nice to have in the forward pocket.
I'd like to see us going back to junior footy. Have at least 2 of those guys starting in the goal square and making runs at 45 degrees and 90 degrees... Over and over again. Higher workrate, and give the midfielders a target every time the ball is coming forward. The defence either runs with us leaving the 3rd tall deep to either mark, or knock the ball down to one of the smalls or we get a mark on the lead.
I still dont think our forwards work hard enough inside 50.
We won't finish within 10 goals of them
That sounds about what the half time result will be. God help us by the final siren.
Newman will be out.
Lang needs to be dropped, as does Newnes: they simply do not put enough pressure on their opponents.
Setters needs to produce, or he'll get dropped. He doesn't look urgent enough and he doesn't put enough pressure on.
I'd like to see more from Betts, H, Levi, Plowman & Cuningham. I'd like to 4 quarters from McGovern, Martin and Simmo. And I'd like to see a 100% fit Cripps (getting a few frees).
O'Brien and Stocker have to be close after decent performances in the midfield for the 2's.
Willo has be a good chance to replace Newman, whose drive we missed.
Philp must also be a chance with good possessions and 7 tackles.
I would like to bring de Koning in, but we con't do that with our present forward structure. We be too big and not mobile enough. As it is, he'll probably play in the 2's where he will be the only ruck we have.
Jack Silvagni must also be chance, as he does provide pressure and can play a defensive mid game.
Last week showed a number of things to really need to address this year:
[1] Intensity towards the ball:
At the moment, we don't appear to have the desperation or to put the pressure on that a top team does. We need to work on that a lot.
[2] Ruck:
We have a big weakness here. Pittonet did a great job, but he was killed early. He is going to play games for us for some time. However, he isn't the guy to dominate. We need a top ruckman and we don't have one.
[3] Midfield:
Our midfield is still a work in process. We have some bodies, but I think we may trade a few of them if they don't step up soon. We were really thumped there last weekend. There have been talks about Wines: he would be a good get.
We also need another top stopper, a guy like de Boer. At the moment we have only 1 negative mid, Ed Curnow, and he can't play on everybody.
Newman will be out.
Lang needs to be dropped, as does Newnes: they simply do not put enough pressure on their opponents.
Setters needs to produce, or he'll get dropped. He doesn't look urgent enough and he doesn't put enough pressure on.
I'd like to see more from Betts, H, Levi, Plowman & Cuningham. I'd like to 4 quarters from McGovern, Martin and Simmo. And I'd like to see a 100% fit Cripps (getting a few frees).
O'Brien and Stocker have to be close after decent performances in the midfield for the 2's.
Willo has be a good chance to replace Newman, whose drive we missed.
Philp must also be a chance with good possessions and 7 tackles.
I would like to bring de Koning in, but we con't do that with our present forward structure. We be too big and not mobile enough. As it is, he'll probably play in the 2's where he will be the only ruck we have.
Jack Silvagni must also be chance, as he does provide pressure and can play a defensive mid game.
Last week showed a number of things to really need to address this year:
[1] Intensity towards the ball:
At the moment, we don't appear to have the desperation or to put the pressure on that a top team does. We need to work on that a lot.
[2] Ruck:
We have a big weakness here. Pittonet did a great job, but he was killed early. He is going to play games for us for some time. However, he isn't the guy to dominate. We need a top ruckman and we don't have one.
[3] Midfield:
Our midfield is still a work in process. We have some bodies, but I think we may trade a few of them if they don't step up soon. We were really thumped there last weekend. There have been talks about Wines: he would be a good get.
We also need another top stopper, a guy like de Boer. At the moment we have only 1 negative mid, Ed Curnow, and he can't play on everybody.
Nice post and agree with it, although would like to see OBrien and Stocker back up their performance one more time.
Unfortunately you can’t teach intensity at the ball, so the drums are really beating for Setterfield whose time is now, not next year. Ditto SPS.
Williamson is surely a lock out of the backline this week to replace Newman and I’d also really like to see Silvagni in the team to bolster our inside midfield.
Murphy forward.
Newman will be out.
Lang needs to be dropped, as does Newnes: they simply do not put enough pressure on their opponents.
Setters needs to produce, or he'll get dropped. He doesn't look urgent enough and he doesn't put enough pressure on.
I'd like to see more from Betts, H, Levi, Plowman & Cuningham. I'd like to 4 quarters from McGovern, Martin and Simmo. And I'd like to see a 100% fit Cripps (getting a few frees).
O'Brien and Stocker have to be close after decent performances in the midfield for the 2's.
Willo has be a good chance to replace Newman, whose drive we missed.
Philp must also be a chance with good possessions and 7 tackles.
I would like to bring de Koning in, but we con't do that with our present forward structure. We be too big and not mobile enough. As it is, he'll probably play in the 2's where he will be the only ruck we have.
Jack Silvagni must also be chance, as he does provide pressure and can play a defensive mid game.
Last week showed a number of things to really need to address this year:
[1] Intensity towards the ball:
At the moment, we don't appear to have the desperation or to put the pressure on that a top team does. We need to work on that a lot.
[2] Ruck:
We have a big weakness here. Pittonet did a great job, but he was killed early. He is going to play games for us for some time. However, he isn't the guy to dominate. We need a top ruckman and we don't have one.
[3] Midfield:
Our midfield is still a work in process. We have some bodies, but I think we may trade a few of them if they don't step up soon. We were really thumped there last weekend. There have been talks about Wines: he would be a good get.
We also need another top stopper, a guy like de Boer. At the moment we have only 1 negative mid, Ed Curnow, and he can't play on everybody.
Good stuff, Capt CRASH.
Like you I have concerns over some individuals and their 'mental toughness' and they'd be in the 'last chance' category... last chance to deliver some authority, some intensity and some influence. Cuningham, Setterfield and Lang chief among them. Stuffed if I can see, thus far, why we recruited Newnes.
Good stuff, Capt CRASH.
Like you I have concerns over some individuals and their 'mental toughness' and they'd be in the 'last chance' category... last chance to deliver some authority, some intensity and some influence. Cuningham, Setterfield and Lang chief among them. Stuffed if I can see, thus far, why we recruited Newnes.
I was scratching my head at the time, and the more I see of him, the more that decision dumbfounds me. If he had a standout quality, I might understand. But he doesn't. Vanilla ordinaire.
I know I should get behind our guys, but we don't need list cloggers. We need to develop our players and teach them what is necessary to win. We don't appear to do that, and haven't this century.
Ruck is an even bigger problem this week, not because the Cats rucks are better but because they are ultra-mobile.
Gawn is aerobic and clever but he's not quick, Pittonet could still follow him around the ground.
Cats have Stanley, Blicavs and Ratugolea that they rotate through the ruck, they are not Gawn but Pittonet won't keep pace with any of them.
Winning the midfield will be ultra-critical this week, and we are up against the likes of Selwood and The Popsicle Dangerfield so it's hard to see how we can win this game.
btw., Almost 100% certainty Dangerfield will dump one or more of our mids in a revenge tackle for Burgoyne treatment of him last week, and be cleared of any wrong doing, he's a playground bully that picks on those who are passive! But do not be surprised that if we retaliate one of our guys gets the book thrown at them, what odds Cripps?
btw., Almost 100% certainty Dangerfield will dump one or more of our mids in a revenge tackle for Burgoyne treatment of him last week, and be cleared of any wrong doing, he's a playground bully that picks on those who are passive! But do not be surprised that if we retaliate one of our guys gets the book thrown at them, what odds Cripps?
But LP they've changed the rules because of that tackle?? No longer be able to get away with it. Cannot imagine the AFL letting anyone get away with it and certainly not Danger.
But LP they've changed the rules because of that tackle?? No longer be able to get away with it. Cannot imagine the AFL letting anyone get away with it and certainly not Danger.
Very funny, that gave me a great belly laugh! :D
Jake Niall in the age has written a report about the lack of tackling by Carlton in the first quarters. Intensity is the key. Geelong has good but front running mid-field, their back line is solid but can be taken apart if the ball enters quickly into their opponents forward line, and their forwards are a bunch of names put together like a quilt and only functions if the mid-field is on top. This is why they keep getting cleaned up in the finals by good teams. We need to make an absolute raging contest from the first bounce, if we do that we might find Geelong out.
Jake Niall in the age has written a report about the lack of tackling by Carlton in the first quarters. Intensity is the key. Geelong has good but front running mid-field, their back line is solid but can be taken apart if the ball enters quickly into their opponents forward line, and their forwards are a bunch of names put together like a quilt and only functions if the mid-field is on top. This is why they keep getting cleaned up in the finals by good teams. We need to make an absolute raging contest from the first bounce, if we do that we might find Geelong out.
Go back and watch the replay yourself, you'll find Carlton players getting first to the ball but not being clean on the pickup and getting pegged by the Dees. Then the Dees are very clean, and break away leaving nobody to tackle, it distorted the stats and blaming tackling hides the real problem.
Go back and watch the replay yourself, you'll find Carlton players getting first to the ball but not being clean on the pickup and getting pegged by the Dees. Then the Dees are very clean, and break away leaving nobody to tackle, it distorted the stats and blaming tackling hides the real problem.
What you're saying is true IMO - all facets of the game are interdependent, and the stats can only be interpreted correctly in relation to the actual game, and in relation to understanding footy in some vaguely holistic way.
In Williamson Silvagni Philps
Out Lang Newman Newnes
I'd be very curious to know how we can properly assess the form of those not playing seniors without a proper VFL team. These scratch matches don't really fill me with much hope to be honest.
Going to (potentially) very wet Saturday.
Three talls + SOJ up forward top heavy?
Going to (potentially) very wet Saturday.
Three talls + SOJ up forward top heavy?
SOJ to the midfield.
SOJ to the midfield.
SOJ, like his father, relishes wet weather footy.
Jake Niall in the age has written a report about the lack of tackling by Carlton in the first quarters. Intensity is the key. Geelong has good but front running mid-field, their back line is solid but can be taken apart if the ball enters quickly into their opponents forward line, and their forwards are a bunch of names put together like a quilt and only functions if the mid-field is on top. This is why they keep getting cleaned up in the finals by good teams. We need to make an absolute raging contest from the first bounce, if we do that we might find Geelong out.
Intensity - exactamundo. And that's above the shoulders, that's attitude. Too often we start games trying to finesse... now where does that instruction (and lack of intent) come from?
Playing against the Cats at their irregular Kardina Park is really unfair, we'll be crunched unfortunately, a top 4 side with home ground advantage is the cruel reality.
Playing against the Cats at their irregular Kardina Park is really unfair, we'll be crunched unfortunately, a top 4 side with home ground advantage is the cruel reality.
I'm surprised its $1.14 v $5.50 with the line at 27.5. 11 odd goal flogging last year IIRC, they will be doing well to get within that I reckon.
Ruck is an even bigger problem this week, not because the Cats rucks are better but because they are ultra-mobile.
We could unleash the king this week, which would help in that area.
But it could make us too top heavy.....especially if it is as wet as predicted.
Drop Gov for TDK?
I'm surprised its $1.14 v $5.50 with the line at 27.5. 11 odd goal flogging last year IIRC, they will be doing well to get within that I reckon.
We always get flogged last game. Year before down there it was a close one. Bar that game last year when we switched off for the year, no matter who we play we don't get flogged by anyone under Teague. So far that's included Richmond twice and the Eagles. Richmond both times got close after we gave away a massive headstart. They're better than Geelong. It's not that we are going badly generally, often going well, we are just going badly early and it's costing us.
Covid-19 or no, I feel very ripped off with this fixture. having to play games in Geelong when we can't play them at Ikon is ... not satisfactory. Not in the least. Just another of those anti-Carlton things that have become a part of the AFL.
On the playing front, Geelong played well against Hawthorn.
They did but like any first match some side seems more ready to go than others. Hawthorn mostly likely ran out of puff. When a side is shot it's very easy to end up winning by a big margin. It's was very close before then.
We could unleash the king this week, which would help in that area.
But it could make us too top heavy.....especially if it is as wet as predicted.
Drop Gov for TDK?
Possibly. Like what De Koning offers and he certainly more than matched Grundy in the pre season game. Rucks as well as being able to play forward.
I worry about putting De Koning in the ruck. He has the height but must be giving away 20kg in weight to the likes of Gawn etc. My concern is that as he tires he'll be pushed aside and have little impact in a game.
I haven't seen him this year but have had the impression he will not bulk up as he ages and will always have a light frame.
Would we be better off developing him as a forward position player?
have you seen his brothers?
He'll fill out.
We always get flogged last game. Year before down there it was a close one. Bar that game last year when we switched off for the year, no matter who we play we don't get flogged by anyone under Teague. So far that's included Richmond twice and the Eagles. Richmond both times got close after we gave away a massive headstart. They're better than Geelong. It's not that we are going badly generally, often going well, we are just going badly early and it's costing us.
Teague was coaching when they flooged us by 68pts
Teague was coaching when they flogged us by 68pts
It was the wind what did it. All of a sudden now, it can't be the coach. And apparently, now honourable losses are ok for some, whereas before they were totally unacceptable.
As W.F Deedes would have said, "shurely shome mishtake."
It was the wind what did it. All of a sudden now, it can't be the coach. And apparently, now honourable losses are ok for some, whereas before they were totally unacceptable.
As W.F Deedes would have said, "shurely shome mishtake."
Yep. Excuses are over.
Everyone cut BB slack in his first two years. It was a 'rebuild' so he had a buffer. But just couldn't get us winning games.
But not the TT (Teague Train). We cut him slack when he took over and fair enough. He had a lot to learn, and quickly. But that was 2019.
The TT has publicly declared an emphasis on winning... that's the only acceptable outcome. To me that means no such thing as 'honourable losses' anymore. Full stop.
For a club that has stated that wins are the goal now, 0-2 is failure. Having the midfield turn up to the Melb game like a group of sloths on Valium is astonishing, especially as poor starts are a trend. How long from R1 did we have to work on that aspect of our game? I hope there has been some pretty intense discussions with the midfield/stoppage coaches.
An 'honourable' loss to the Pussycats will be unacceptable (let alone a shyte loss). No excuses. Only a win is acceptable.
Losing = Failure !!
My previous post was just me being a smart ar$e - it's not to be taken literally.
This idea that we are going to get a big jump in performance from Bolton to Teague is illusory, certainly in the short to medium term - just some supporters engaging in wishful thinking and going the early crow. We've all done it.
We still have too many issues across several areas to be taken seriously as a contender or a finals threat. Honourable losses and being competitive and jagging the odd win are the reality for now. Saying losses are unacceptable, won't be tolerated etc. are just pie-in-the-sky benchmarking IMO.
We do get the irony PaulP even if it's difficult to express in written words.
If only some more of our fans would look at "our club's good helpers" like McGuire and Dangerfield with the same scepticism as they apply to each other!
My previous post was just me being a smart ar$e - it's not to be taken literally.
This idea that we are going to get a big jump in performance from Bolton to Teague is illusory, certainly in the short to medium term - just some supporters engaging in wishful thinking and going the early crow. We've all done it.
We still have too many issues across several areas to be taken seriously as a contender or a finals threat. Honourable losses and being competitive and jagging the odd win are the reality for now. Saying losses are unacceptable, won't be tolerated etc. are just pie-in-the-sky benchmarking IMO.
Hey, Pauly, there was merit in your 'sm@rt@rse' comments.
When the club declares it's now in the business of winning, and it loses, then we call them to account regardless of what we supporters think is reality.
If we are in the business of winning then 2020 must deliver more wins than loses and 2021 must see strong finals action. Delusional? Nuh. When we set winning as the benchmark (and not 'growth' or improvement only) then you must deliver. Things can change very, very quickly. There will be a tipping point and that has to be reached sooner rather than later.
FWIW, I still think we have a few passengers and hopefully, over this season they'll be weeded out to give us the best chance of 'winning'.
(As an aside, the sight of Simmo pulling the players aside last week and giving his talk was very disconcerting to me, he should have whispered in the ears of the skippers for them to deliver).
If we aren't being strictly measured against our stated target of winning then what is the incentive to win and how can we expect to ever start winning? Repeatedly failing means being held to account. Simple management. We must get it into the minds of the players what is expected and provide the guidance/tools/training etc. to achieve it. A bit of work still required yet - focus, focus, focus!
Hey, Pauly, there was merit in your 'sm@rt@rse' comments.
When the club declares it's now in the business of winning, and it loses, then we call them to account regardless of what we supporters think is reality.
If we are in the business of winning then 2020 must deliver more wins than loses and 2021 must see strong finals action. Delusional? Nuh. When we set winning as the benchmark (and not 'growth' or improvement only) then you must deliver. Things can change very, very quickly. There will be a tipping point and that has to be reached sooner rather than later.
FWIW, I still think we have a few passengers and hopefully, over this season they'll be weeded out to give us the best chance of 'winning'.
(As an aside, the sight of Simmo pulling the players aside last week and giving his talk was very disconcerting to me, he should have whispered in the ears of the skippers for them to deliver).
The point is, clubs and supporters can engage in as much tough talk, minimum standards and pronouncements as they want - until the reality matches the words, it's all hot air. Reality will continue to mock and laugh at us until that occurs. That could happen this weekend, or it could happen in 2025.
Suggestion from left field (well over the border!!) bring in Sam Ramsay to play on (run with) Ablett and lock down defender.
cheers for now
Ab
The point is, clubs and supporters can engage in as much tough talk, minimum standards and pronouncements as they want - until the reality matches the words, it's all hot air. Reality will continue to mock and laugh at us until that occurs. That could happen this weekend, or it could happen in 2025.
You have to start somewhere, you must set a goal -- to quote the corny old saying, but nonetheless true -- that is within sight but a little out of reach. You achieve naught without vision and goals and mongrel persistence.
Words, even those full of hot air, set standards, set a measurement for accountability and measurement of progress.
You speak of the 'line in the sand' game that turned around the Dawks... started with strong words, words that challenged a group, words that challenged a group to create a new culture and not-negotiable standards. Never underestimate the power of words, Pauly.
You have to start somewhere, you must set a goal -- to quote the corny old saying, but nonetheless true -- that is within sight but a little out of reach. You achieve naught without vision and goals and mongrel persistence.
Words, even those full of hot air, set standards, set a measurement for accountability and measurement of progress.
You speak of the 'line in the sand' game that turned around the Dawks... started with strong words, words that challenged a group, words that challenged a group to create a new culture and not-negotiable standards. Never underestimate the power of words, Pauly.
I'm a big fan of the power of words, but saying "it's wins or nothing" is not an example of how to use words well, and it's not going to get the desired result. It's lazy, and amateurish to boot.
So what is this .... Defcon 1?
I don't think we have a hope in hell this weekend. We are so deficient in so many areas, it's demoralising. So dilute that down to the essence of the problem. Who can take us forward?
Suggestion from left field (well over the border!!) bring in Sam Ramsay to play on (run with) Ablett and lock down defender.
cheers for now
Ab
We dont listen to your kind from over the border here :) :)
I like the idea, cant hurt.
Suggestion from left field (well over the border!!) bring in Sam Ramsay to play on (run with) Ablett and lock down defender.
cheers for now
Adelaideblue
ps recall when Aaron Joseph ran with Ablett in a pre-season game some years ago, stuck like glue and restricted the Little Master.
We let Ed Curnow run with a bloke called Gary Ablett Jnr one day, I think it was up on a sunny Gold Coast.
Ed was close to BoG that day, and I don't think we've done it again since!
A milestone occurs this week, one which is embarrassing and typifies our plight. When Geelong smack us back up the highway to Melbourne, Kade Simpson equals the VFL/AFL games lost record of 208 (with Kevin Murray). Congrats Simmo...not!
We let Ed Curnow run with a bloke called Gary Ablett Jnr one day, I think it was up on a sunny Gold Coast.
Ed was close to BoG that day, and I don't think we've done it again since!
Ed did have another game on Gablett. He got thrashed. But that has been the exception, rather than the rule. Ed has a good record on Gablett.
We do need another lock down type, as Dangermouse doesn't like it close and hard. I'd suggest Jack Silvagni, but I don't think SOJ can run fast enough. Maybe Ramsay would be a reasonable attempt. He is young and has some athleticism.
Crash I think Jack would be very handy in the close quarter combat, trying to win the ball for us and stopping the Cats getting it. No good as a run with option.
Ed did have another game on Gablett. He got thrashed. But that has been the exception, rather than the rule. Ed has a good record on Gablett.
We do need another lock down type, as Dangermouse doesn't like it close and hard. I'd suggest Jack Silvagni, but I don't think SOJ can run fast enough. Maybe Ramsay would be a reasonable attempt. He is young and has some athleticism.
Team-mates are supposed to help slow blokes like Dang down, like Oliver's team-mates did to Cripps last weekend!
I'm a big fan of the power of words, but saying "it's wins or nothing" is not an example of how to use words well, and it's not going to get the desired result. It's lazy, and amateurish to boot.
I think you missed the point of what I was saying, which was in response to your position - and you'll be hard-pressed to find where I wrote 'wins or nothing'... if I'd actually said that, then, yes, it would have been churlish. I was discussing the power of words in setting goals for a vision. And resorting to put-downs doesn't strengthen your argument.
It's okay to have a stated goal to 'win' you know, Pauly, in fact it's preferable. It's equally okay to be intolerant of losing.
Team-mates are supposed to help slow blokes like Dang down, like Oliver's team-mates did to Cripps last weekend!
Yep. And this has been an issue for some time, Spotted One.
Although it is more difficult these days to take out an opponent, you can fly the flag and let the opposition know that anyone giving your team mate undue attention will be in line for some attention themselves.
I have fond memories (here we go again, down memory lane!) of Braddles getting undue attention in a particular game and Dora dished out a hip and shoulder to the 'minder' and his bad tactics. Stretcher. Ribs. Braddles free to play.
Crash I think Jack would be very handy in the close quarter combat, trying to win the ball for us and stopping the Cats getting it. No good as a run with option.
Cookie Nat Fyfe says hi.
I think you missed the point of what I was saying, which was in response to your position - and you'll be hard-pressed to find where I wrote 'wins or nothing'... if I'd actually said that, then, yes, it would have been churlish. I was discussing the power of words in setting goals for a vision. And resorting to put-downs doesn't strengthen your argument.
It's okay to have a stated goal to 'win' you know, Pauly, in fact it's preferable. It's equally okay to be intolerant of losing.
The put down was directed at clubs who think that setting winning as a goal is some sort of powerful, never before thought of idea that will inspire the players to greater heights and put the club ahead of the pack, as if somehow the players hadn't already figured this out or may have forgotten. It's as idiotic as telling them to put on their jumpers. Has there ever been a team / coach anywhere in the AFL/VFL that has said it's no biggie if the team loses ?
If you play poker, you can have all the skills and pep talks in the world - you can't win with a losing hand, which is my point about reality.
Cookie Nat Fyfe says hi.
I'm very pleased and flattered to hear from him GTC, but please explain. Apologies but not feeling 100% in the brain dept tonight. 🤯
I'm very pleased and flattered to hear from him GTC, but please explain. Apologies but not feeling 100% in the brain dept tonight. 🤯
Last year when we played Freo and won, Fyfe was going nuts and SOS moved onto him, ran with him and quelled his influence. So he can do a run with role if needed.
Jack and Willo in
Lang and Newmy out
Deleted
No hope of a win which is sad considering they are probably not even a top 4 team.
The thing is I bet they come out harder then us early on and again game will be over before half time, cause because all the negative talk this week means they will be waiting for it knowing it will be on early.
Again will be slaughtered in the midfield. Apart from Cripps wont win one other midfield spot against their group.
Game over.
Teague was coaching when they flooged us by 68pts
I said "bar that game".
Jack and Willo in
Lang and Newmy out
About right.
Newnes and Cuningham can consider themselves fortunate. Setterfield has to step up.
Are we top heavy for what will be a wet night?
Who are our emergencies...? Are clubs not obliged to provide emergencies this far out from the game?
Last year when we played Freo and won, Fyfe was going nuts and SOS moved onto him, ran with him and quelled his influence. So he can do a run with role if needed.
👍I didn't remember that GTC but great to hear, thanks mate.
The put down was directed at clubs who think that setting winning as a goal is some sort of powerful, never before thought of idea that will inspire the players to greater heights and put the club ahead of the pack, as if somehow the players hadn't already figured this out or may have forgotten. It's as idiotic as telling them to put on their jumpers. Has there ever been a team / coach anywhere in the AFL/VFL that has said it's no biggie if the team loses ?
If you play poker, you can have all the skills and pep talks in the world - you can't win with a losing hand, which is my point about reality.
Green shoots and getting comfortable being uncomfortable is all we heard about for 4 years.
Would have been nice to have hear a bit more about trying to set standards.
Green shoots and getting comfortable being uncomfortable is all we heard about for 4 years.
Would have been nice to have hear a bit more about trying to set standards.
Coming from you of all people, that's a strange post. It's a caricature of something with much greater ambition and much greater depth.
What I want to see is bringing our terrific 3rd qtr mental attitude to our soft 1st qtr attitude.
[2] Ruck:
We have a big weakness here. Pittonet did a great job, but he was killed early. He is going to play games for us for some time. However, he isn't the guy to dominate. We need a top ruckman and we don't have one.
There's been a few people on here saying similar.
I don't get it.
Bloke plays his first game for us. Gets smashed in the first quarter, but without much help from his midfielders. Comes back to win the following 3 quarters.
So on the basis of what weve seen from this guy, you are saying he cant be our frontline ruck?
I'm not saying he is definitely going to be all that, but geez, give him a chance before we write him off.
For those saying a 12 goal loss is inevitable, and that honourable losses are unacceptable.
If we get done by a goal in a close game how will you interpret that?
Coming from you of all people, that's a strange post. It's a caricature of something with much greater ambition and much greater depth.
I think the getting comfortable with being uncomfortable was embraced a little to vehemently and that perhaps we were a little bit too concerned with trying to change the whole club, and forgot that football is a business built on winning footy games as well as having a sound business model.
Or we could go back to what we were doing before, retire Simpson and Betts then trade out Curnow,Kreuzer, Murphy and Cripps, secure some new draft picks and wait another 5 years to set our sights on winning games again?
The put down was directed at clubs who think that setting winning as a goal is some sort of powerful, never before thought of idea that will inspire the players to greater heights and put the club ahead of the pack, as if somehow the players hadn't already figured this out or may have forgotten. It's as idiotic as telling them to put on their jumpers. Has there ever been a team / coach anywhere in the AFL/VFL that has said it's no biggie if the team loses ?
If you play poker, you can have all the skills and pep talks in the world - you can't win with a losing hand, which is my point about reality.
No-one is saying that by stating that only winning is acceptable, that wins will magically materialise. You couldn't really have thought we meant that. I'll try another approach. By stating that only winning is acceptable you are setting a new standard for us on how to achieve 'winning' where it had NOT been a clearly stated primary objective for us, for some years. When 'winning' takes centre stage, then the focus, the efforts and strategies turn to just that rather than simply 'growth & learning' (and other cliches) from games. That's what stating our goal of winning does, creates clarity and raises expectation... and you soon learn who can help you achieve that and who cannot.
When you say that no coach would say that losing is no biggie, well, let me remind you that winning was not a priority under BB. Losing was acceptable as we were rebuilding. We wanted to win, but accepted that with such huge changes of personnel that that would be increasingly difficult, hence searching for positives in the constant losing... hence green shoots, growth, learning etc. BUT losing became ingrained and habitual to the point where we are now fighting our way through those years of low W/L expectations. Now our expectations are high and clearly stated, as they should be.
As for your poker metaphor, I really think that assuming we are holding a losing hand is premature and unnecessarily defeatist. And remember, it's not only what you're dealt but perhaps even more so how you play (your hand).
I think the getting comfortable with being uncomfortable was embraced a little to vehemently and that perhaps we were a little bit too concerned with trying to change the whole club, and forgot that football is a business built on winning footy games as well as having a sound business model.
Or we could go back to what we were doing before, retire Simpson and Betts then trade out Curnow,Kreuzer, Murphy and Cripps, secure some new draft picks and wait another 5 years to set our sights on winning games again?
We tried winning games in the here and the now under Pagan - get any recycled, desperado, washed up has been, as long they have experience and just cobble together a team to get a season like 2004, which falls apart very soon thereafter.
The big rebuild idea (in place before Bolton got there, for those who have no interest in historical fact), was based on the rather appealing notion of building a culture of sustained success. Whether or not it was successful, whether or not it was a good idea, is besides the point. It was a long term strategy, and much like the guy at uni who puts up with crap cars and takeaway food whilst they study, in order to get a better job and better life later, in our case you have to take a few hits along the way. This is very different to embracing failure or being disinterested in winning.
The reason we have been down for so long is because the ENTIRE CLUB, from TOP TO BOTTOM, is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It has nothing to do with accepting failure, embracing mediocrity, forgetfulness or any other dubious idea that fans latch onto. The entire club knows and has always known exactly why the players take the field - nobody has forgotten anything. The club in toto is simply not good enough to win.
No-one is saying that by stating that only winning is acceptable, that wins will magically materialise. You couldn't really have thought we meant that. I'll try another approach. By stating that only winning is acceptable you are setting a new standard for us on how to achieve 'winning' where it had NOT been a clearly stated primary objective for us, for some years. When 'winning' takes centre stage, then the focus, the efforts and strategies turn to just that rather than simply 'growth & learning' (and other cliches) from games. That's what stating our goal of winning does, creates clarity and raises expectation... and you soon learn who can help you achieve that and who cannot.
When you say that no coach would say that losing is no biggie, well, let me remind you that winning was not a priority under BB. Losing was acceptable as we were rebuilding. We wanted to win, but accepted that with such huge changes of personnel that that would be increasingly difficult, hence searching for positives in the constant losing... hence green shoots, growth, learning etc. BUT losing became ingrained and habitual to the point where we are now fighting our way through those years of low W/L expectations. Now our expectations are high and clearly stated, as they should be.
As for your poker metaphor, I really think that assuming we are holding a losing hand is premature and unnecessarily defeatist. And remember, it's not only what you're dealt but perhaps even more so how you play (your hand).
Using the poker metaphor again, I think we were throwing out cards that could have got us a straight, or perhaps a flush, whilst we were focusing too much on putting together a full house.
@ Baggers
I watched the Tigers v Hawks game last night. The Hawks performance after a poor week previously was what I would call a winning focus. Every one of them was out their with that single unified focus. Clarko is a great coach, like him or not!
We tried winning games in the here and the now under Pagan - get any recycled, desperado, washed up has been, as long they have experience and just cobble together a team to get a season like 2004, which falls apart very soon thereafter.
The big rebuild idea (in place before Bolton got there, for those who have no interest in historical fact), was based on the rather appealing notion of building a culture of sustained success. Whether or not it was successful, whether or not it was a good idea, is besides the point. It was a long term strategy, and much like the guy at uni who puts up with crap cars and takeaway food whilst they study, in order to get a better job and better life later, in our case you have to take a few hits along the way. This is very different to embracing failure or being disinterested in winning.
The reason we have been down for so long is because the ENTIRE CLUB, from TOP TO BOTTOM, is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It has nothing to do with accepting failure, embracing mediocrity, forgetfulness or any other dubious idea that fans latch onto. The entire club knows and has always known exactly why the players take the field - nobody has forgotten anything. The club in toto is simply not good enough to win.
Setting standards isnt solely about winning.
2004 is not a sound analogy.
Pagan didnt have a raft of draft picks, he had a raft of draft penalties.
Our recruitment was average back then too.
One of the biggest failures of our club is the inability to stay the course.
That is a different argument to what the course looked like, and setting standards.
The real death knell came for Brendan when we got spanked by GWS, and the boys had to talk about standards. 4 years into a rebuild....
THAT is the problem with the rebuild. There were a few ignored warning signs, that didnt make much sense, but were accepted as part of developing green shoots, but Im tired of prognosticating.
Its really all we have had to talk about as Carlton supporters which is part of the reason we are so focussed on it.
Setting standards isnt solely about winning.
2004 is not a sound analogy.
Pagan didnt have a raft of draft picks, he had a raft of draft penalties.
Our recruitment was average back then too.
One of the biggest failures of our club is the inability to stay the course.
That is a different argument to what the course looked like, and setting standards.
The real death knell came for Brendan when we got spanked by GWS, and the boys had to talk about standards. 4 years into a rebuild....
THAT is the problem with the rebuild. There were a few ignored warning signs, that didnt make much sense, but were accepted as part of developing green shoots, but Im tired of prognosticating.
Its really all we have had to talk about as Carlton supporters which is part of the reason we are so focussed on it.
I saw and heard Bolton refer to setting standards dozens of times in his tenure.
Every regime over the last 20 years has reasons for failure. You can make excuses for all of them with very little effort.
Rubbish clubs make rubbish decisions - we sacked Bolton because of results, and the Crows sacked Pyke (resigned, LOL), despite him having the best record of any Crows full time coach, and the 5th best record of any then current coach. Once a club decides on a fall guy, they can spin it any way they want.
A failed strategy is not a strategy of failure.
For those saying a 12 goal loss is inevitable, and that honourable losses are unacceptable.
If we get done by a goal in a close game how will you interpret that?
12g or 1 pt, same thing for mine
Getting Teague (and Digby to a lesser extent) from North was a smart move by Pagan. However, getting Sean Charles and MIck Martyn were disasters. Such were the times.
We still don't really know exactly what we're doing through every reset and getting more desperate in the process. Meh .... I should care a little more than I do.
Last year when we played Freo and won, Fyfe was going nuts and SOS moved onto him, ran with him and quelled his influence. So he can do a run with role if needed.
True, but Fyfe is not quick like Dangerfield.
I'd certainly pencil in SoJ to have a crack at the Bont!
SoJ plays quite tall, and is relatively mobile, and a smart footballer, is he an option to quell Blicavs and hurt them going the other way?
There's been a few people on here saying similar.
I don't get it.
Bloke plays his first game for us. Gets smashed in the first quarter, but without much help from his midfielders. Comes back to win the following 3 quarters.
So on the basis of what weve seen from this guy, you are saying he cant be our frontline ruck?
I'm not saying he is definitely going to be all that, but geez, give him a chance before we write him off.
Pittonet was the dominant ruckman after Q1.
That in his first game for the Blues against one of the true giants in the game.
Terrific effort.
Bloke plays his first game for us. Gets smashed in the first quarter, but without much help from his midfielders. Comes back to win the following 3 quarters.
Sorry, but I feel the part in bold is just fantasy! I love the fact our fans support our players, but it has to be grounded in realistic frame of reference. Perhaps that winning assessment makes sense relative to what we've had available in the past, but not relative to Gawn at the weekend.
If he did better for a win over the last 3 quarters, by our assessment, then shizen if that's a win no wonder we are on the bottom of the ladder!
FYI;
(AFLCA Votes)
10 Petracca
8 Gawn6 Weitering
3 Oliver
2 Docherty
1 Salem
How can Pittonet have won 3 or the 4 quarters against Gawn and not get a coaches vote while Gawn gets two second place votes?
Watch the replay LP.
Was serviceable after quarter time but game was over by the time he adjusted. Overall he is young so not a bad first effort.
We could have Gawn and I still wouldn’t be sure our midfield group would take advantage of it. We have no clue when an opposition ruck is carving us up how to shark any of the taps.
I’ve watched games where Kreuzer was dominating against a second tier ruck yet The opposition midfield still got more clearances.
Said it countless times until we get some established ready made midfielders and we need at least 2 preferably 3 to support Cripps we will remain a bottom side.
Interesting stat from last night's game:
Tigers - 9 players without a tackle, another 5 with one only.
Sound familiar?
We tried winning games in the here and the now under Pagan - get any recycled, desperado, washed up has been, as long they have experience and just cobble together a team to get a season like 2004, which falls apart very soon thereafter.
The big rebuild idea (in place before Bolton got there, for those who have no interest in historical fact), was based on the rather appealing notion of building a culture of sustained success. Whether or not it was successful, whether or not it was a good idea, is besides the point. It was a long term strategy, and much like the guy at uni who puts up with crap cars and takeaway food whilst they study, in order to get a better job and better life later, in our case you have to take a few hits along the way. This is very different to embracing failure or being disinterested in winning.
The reason we have been down for so long is because the ENTIRE CLUB, from TOP TO BOTTOM, is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It has nothing to do with accepting failure, embracing mediocrity, forgetfulness or any other dubious idea that fans latch onto. The entire club knows and has always known exactly why the players take the field - nobody has forgotten anything. The club in toto is simply not good enough to win.
Come on, Pauly, no one here has suggested anything like 'embracing failure' or 'being disinterested in winning.' Fck ups? Yep, there's been plenty of those but realised mainly in hindsight.
Raking over the Pagan era coals really doesn't serve any useful purpose as just about every position at the club now is very different to then.
And as for the 'entire club not being good enough,' it's way too early to make that call. The TT senior coaching career thus far is measured in games and weeks! We gave your boy 4 years, let's at least give the TT 18 months or so!
The CEO, Head of Footy and the raft of other new-to-the-role folks have barely got their tootsies under the desk... let's at least give them until the end of the year before calling them to the stocks!
Was serviceable after quarter time but game was over by the time he adjusted. Overall he is young so not a bad first effort.
We could have Gawn and I still wouldn’t be sure our midfield group would take advantage of it. We have no clue when an opposition ruck is carving us up how to shark any of the taps.
I’ve watched games where Kreuzer was dominating against a second tier ruck yet The opposition midfield still got more clearances.
Said it countless times until we get some established ready made midfielders and we need at least 2 preferably 3 to support Cripps we will remain a bottom side.
The game was level with 6 minutes on the clock.
Over? That's simply wubbish.
Watch the replay LP.
Always do before I vote, I've watch the game live and Kayo replay twice now, and not through navy blue coloured glasses.
I would have thought Gawn was BoG, I was surprised to read the coaches gave Petracca top votes especially as he feed off Oliver quite a lot.
Come on, Pauly, no one here has suggested anything like 'embracing failure' or 'being disinterested in winning.' Fck ups? Yep, there's been plenty of those but realised mainly in hindsight.
Raking over the Pagan era coals really doesn't serve any useful purpose as just about every position at the club now is very different to then.
And as for the 'entire club not being good enough,' it's way too early to make that call. The TT senior coaching career thus far is measured in games and weeks! We gave your boy 4 years, let's at least give the TT 18 months or so!
The CEO, Head of Footy and the raft of other new-to-the-role folks have barely got their tootsies under the desk... let's at least give them until the end of the year before calling them to the stocks!
Pagan was chosen arbitrarily - you could nominate any of our coaches over the last 2 decades and the answer would be the same. And the most critical and important voices at the club have not changed since Pagan - by which i mean power brokers and other influencers with deep pockets. And compare our board to Essendon's. Looks like a cheer squad in comparison.
I'm not calling anyone to the stocks - simply stating historical fact.
And Bolton was given 3 1/2 years.
Sorry, but I feel the part in bold is just fantasy! I love the fact our fans support our players, but it has to be grounded in realistic frame of reference. Perhaps that winning assessment makes sense relative to what we've had available in the past, but not relative to Gawn at the weekend.
If he did better for a win over the last 3 quarters, by our assessment, then shizen if that's a win no wonder we are on the bottom of the ladder!
FYI;
(AFLCA Votes)
10 Petracca
8 Gawn
6 Weitering
3 Oliver
2 Docherty
1 Salem
How can Pittonet have won 3 or the 4 quarters against Gawn and not get a coaches vote while Gawn gets two second place votes?
You're right LP, I reckon Gawn was BoG.
The difference in the last two thirds of the game was that our midfielders realised that Gawn was dominating and changed their tactics at stoppages. We won the clearances and Gawn's hitouts to advantage plummeted. However, he was still a dominant force around the ground (helped by some dubious umpiring decisions).
Pittonet was far from disgraced though and he certainly improved as the game wore on. It was a good sign that he just didn't drop his head but fought it out to the end. I reckon he could do OK against Stanley but a lot will depend on whether our midfielders are switched on at the first bounce.
Jack Steven in, replacing Parfitt.
Jack Steven in, replacing Parfitt.
Another comeback kid for the media to drool over...just got over all the hype with Bennell, are we that bad that clubs pick these players cos they think its an easy game?
For those saying a 12 goal loss is inevitable, and that honourable losses are unacceptable.
If we get done by a goal in a close game how will you interpret that?
Be alot more acceptable if it good, close, hard fought game all day. I think we'd accept that. If we're 6 goals down again, fly home and lose by a goal then it will frustrate the life out of us. So it depends on the nature of a one goal loss.
Always do before I vote, I've watch the game live and Kayo replay twice now, and not through navy blue coloured glasses.
I would have thought Gawn was BoG, I was surprised to read the coaches gave Petracca top votes especially as he feed off Oliver quite a lot.
Twice? you're brave..lol.
Pittonet was far from disgraced though and he certainly improved as the game wore on. It was a good sign that he just didn't drop his head but fought it out to the end. I reckon he could do OK against Stanley but a lot will depend on whether our midfielders are switched on at the first bounce.
Agreed, as I said in the voting thread if Gawn hadn't run rampant I would have given Pittonet votes.
Pagan was chosen arbitrarily - you could nominate any of our coaches over the last 2 decades and the answer would be the same. And the most critical and important voices at the club have not changed since Pagan - by which i mean power brokers and other influencers with deep pockets. And compare our board to Essendon's. Looks like a cheer squad in comparison.
I'm not calling anyone to the stocks - simply stating historical fact.
And Bolton was given 3 1/2 years.
Ah, this has been quite a dance, Pauly.
Okay, if you check the history books you'll see that the 'Carlton way' of choosing/appointing senior coaches hadn't changed until your boy, BB, was chosen by a selection committee. It probably started in the mid 60s when the CFC broke the mold with the brilliant and risky appointment of Ronald Dale Barassi - worked alright. The appointment of the 'Hawthorn bloke', David Alex Parkin, was also out of left field and didn't do too badly for us either. We just didn't know when to ease up on that approach... and also throw away the brown paper bag system!
Unfortunately we didn't move with the times which has cost us dearly, in fact we probably only caught up about 5 years ago. (And if you don't think other clubs have wealthy 'influencers' behind the scenes, you wouldn't be right).
As I said before, it's just too early to make a call on us right now, we're a work in progress new to the modern way of doing things. Patience, Grasshopper, patience.
Ah, this has been quite a dance, Pauly.
Okay, if you check the history books you'll see that the 'Carlton way' of choosing/appointing senior coaches hadn't changed until your boy, BB, was chosen by a selection committee. It probably started in the mid 60s when the CFC broke the mold with the brilliant and risky appointment of Ronald Dale Barassi - worked alright. The appointment of the 'Hawthorn bloke', David Alex Parkin, was also out of left field and didn't do too badly for us either. We just didn't know when to ease up on that approach... and also throw away the brown paper bag system!
Unfortunately we didn't move with the times which has cost us dearly, in fact we probably only caught up about 5 years ago. (And if you don't think other clubs have wealthy 'influencers' behind the scenes, you wouldn't be right).
As I said before, it's just too early to make a call on us right now, we're a work in progress new to the modern way of doing things. Patience, Grasshopper, patience.
I'm not making a call right now. But facts are facts, and in the realm of educated opinion, there isn't one thing that I see in the current regime that is much better than any of the previous ones. Not one. Does anyone really think that Teague, long term, will be better than anyone else ? That Lloyd will be better than McKay ? That Liddle will be better than Trigg ? LoGiudice better than Kernahan ? And don't get me started on the board.
I think you will find the cattle available plays a far greater role than any coach in achieving success. For a while you could be fooled into thinking we had a factory assembly line, where we could produce (or purchase) stars seemingly at will. Which is not in any way to suggest that those teams weren't skilled, didn't train hard etc. But good players make a massive difference. You won't find teams from the 60's to the 80's that were more star studded than ours.
I'm not making a call right now. I think you are - read back over your posts, plenty of 'calls' in there. But facts are facts, and in the realm of educated opinion, there isn't one thing that I see in the current regime that is much better than any of the previous ones. Too early to tell. Not one. Does anyone really think that Teague, long term, will be better than anyone else ? Too early to tell, but I hope he's more successful than a few of his predecessors! That Lloyd will be better than McKay ? Hope so... too early to tell. That Liddle will be better than Trigg ? Probably is already, delivering on the bottom line big time and chooses to live in Victoria... good indicators! LoGiudice better than Kernahan ? By a mile. And don't get me started on the board. Okay, I won't get you started on the Board.
I think you will find the cattle available plays a far greater role than any coach in achieving success. Disagree. It's not an either/or situation. You need both to be really successful and establish the right culture. Though I believe the leadership provided by superior coaching is the best first step. For a while you could be fooled into thinking we had a factory assembly line, where we could produce (or purchase) stars seemingly at will. Which is not in any way to suggest that those teams weren't skilled, didn't train hard etc. But good players make a massive difference. Naturally, but if not well led it'll be a waste. You won't find teams from the 60's to the 80's that were more star studded than ours. And in 1980, we were star-studded but poorly coached and crashed out of the finals, big time. Also around the same time Tom Hafey was taking an ordinary list into grand finals, year in, year out. In fact, he took over a wooden spoon group and the following year got them into the GF. Whether we like it or not, leadership is a key, on and off the field.
Agree
It's much too early to tell on Teague....but he wont get the same amount of time as Bolton.
But I reckon it's also much too soon to tell on this season.
There's a lot of doom and gloom around this place at the moment.
I'm struggling to see the reason for it given the general mess this season is.
Win on the weekend and the narrative will be completely different.
I'm quite happy with the off-field folk at present.
They've shown they're prepared to make some hard calls...and they'll live or die on the results of those.
Too early to tell is what I've been saying for a few pages, but the evidence submitted so far is not that great.
And how exactly is LoGiudice better than Sticks (not that Sticks was that great) ? - ineffectual, nebbish already presided over 2 mid season sackings, and involved as a board member in a third.
Too early to tell is what I've been saying for a few pages, but the evidence submitted so far is not that great.
And how exactly is LoGiudice better than Sticks (not that Sticks was that great) ? - ineffectual, nebbish already presided over 2 mid season sackings, and involved as a board member in a third.
Exactly, my beef with Bolton sacking wasnt the fact that he was sacked, but the fact that the main people responsible for his hiring didnt go with him. Thats you Juddy and MLG.
The game was level with 6 minutes on the clock.
Over? That's simply wubbish.
Did we win?
Gotta echo Lod's comments. 2020 will be about getting rid of the dead wood (inc overdue retirements) but that doesn't include the coach
Gotta echo Lod's comments. 2020 will be about getting rid of the dead wood (inc overdue retirements) but that doesn't include the coach
Spot on.
Agree
It's much too early to tell on Teague....but he wont get the same amount of time as Bolton.
But I reckon it's also much too soon to tell on this season.
There's a lot of doom and gloom around this place at the moment.
I'm struggling to see the reason for it given the general mess this season is.
Win on the weekend and the narrative will be completely different.
I'm quite happy with the off-field folk at present.
They've shown they're prepared to make some hard calls...and they'll live or die on the results of those.
Our starts since Teague has been coach have been poor but, bar round 23 where we always tend to switch off anyway, we have fought every game out really hard. Previously the white flag would've been raised. We're 6-7 with Teague, better first qtrs and it's alot better. Culture is still our big issues and that won't change overnight. Malthouse's first year with the Pies was 2nd last, off a previous wooden spoon year. 2 years later they were in the GF. Hardwick hard to start off with Richmond's poor culture and eventually turned it around but far from overnight. That's what Teague will need to do, turn round the culture. Right now, with that aspect he's starting from the "bottom". At least, as I said, we are fighting every game out to the death no matter how far we are behind. Not easy doing that week in, week out. Very few sides could keep doing that. The big issue now is being way behind in game, which is hurting and frustrating all of us.
Too early to tell is what I've been saying for a few pages, but the evidence submitted so far is not that great.
And how exactly is LoGiudice better than Sticks (not that Sticks was that great) ? - ineffectual, nebbish already presided over 2 mid season sackings, and involved as a board member in a third.
He presided over strong financial improvement.
I think you will find the cattle available plays a far greater role than any coach in achieving success. If you look at tonight's GWS v the Dishlickers game you'll very clearly see the importance and significance of strong coaching/leadership.
Another very average game of boring modern footy. Just can't out my finger on what's wrong with GWS. They have so many awesome individual players, but they just don't seem to be a connected unit. They played very dumb footy tonight, movement was so slow and unfocused I thought it was us for a while.
Another very average game of boring modern footy. Just can't out my finger on what's wrong with GWS. They have so many awesome individual players, but they just don't seem to be a connected unit. They played very dumb footy tonight, movement was so slow and unfocused I thought it was us for a while.
Arguably two of their best players were missing in Kelly and Green. We saw what happended to Rich when their best player was out. Imagine if Crippa didnt play tomorrow night, it would be a dead set
cricket score.
Another very average game of boring modern footy. Just can't out my finger on what's wrong with GWS. They have so many awesome individual players, but they just don't seem to be a connected unit. They played very dumb footy tonight, movement was so slow and unfocused I thought it was us for a while.
GWS were shizen for sure. I thought the way the doggies played was very watchable. Wish we played a bit more like they did last night.
And as for my prediction against the cats - we will win! Ever the optimist, I believe our turnaround is just around the corner. We are fit enough for sure, and we have enough talent around the ground, there's just something lacking between then ears. IF we play with the same intensity as the doggies did, we'll give the cats a real shake. Bring the intensity lads, that's really all I'm asking.
I think everyone would agree, regardless of things like honorable losses sucking balls, and winning being everything, if both teams turn up and play their hearts out, and we lose by a kick or two, i'd be happy enough. If the cats are down, and we slack off for a quarter or two and lose by a kick i'll be demoralised, as per usual. if we get absolutely smacked it will be very, very worrying indeed, considering how much emphasis we should be placing on competing hard this week.
Another very average game of boring modern footy. Just can't out my finger on what's wrong with GWS. They have so many awesome individual players, but they just don't seem to be a connected unit. They played very dumb footy tonight, movement was so slow and unfocused I thought it was us for a while.
GWS is overloaded with athletes, but very few footballers. When the few footballers GWS have on hand go missing the opposition footballers put the GWS athletes to the torch and the athletes fold. You just cannot teach players to naturally become uncompromising at the football, you've either got it or you haven't.
It's why I think teams built of athletes will rarely succeed on the big day, because footballers will treat them with brutality on that day! It's my big reservation about our list, we've built a list that is a safe workplace, and guys spend the week planning for a long and happy retirement.
I think too many modern coaches are enamoured with athletes, as a result they do not get the balance right they just invoke more athletes. The coaches drool at the thought of the athlete winning the football on the 5th or 6th repeat effort, the victory at the last gasp of breath, running an opponent into the ground Craig Bradley or Robert Harvey style, which is a certain type of hardness. While hard edged footballers on that ultimate day, the likes of Hodge or Selwood, will inevitably end that contest on the 1st or 2nd attempt! ;)
Coaches can't escape this reality, and the GWS list is ironic given that Sheedy built it and no bigger finals football sniper you will find! Sheedy is exactly the type of footballer that causes GWS players to fold, but he helped build the list that he admires, full of players that have exactly what he didn't, athleticism, skill, endurance and agility! But almost zero of his brutality!
And as for my prediction against the cats - we will win! Ever the optimist, I believe our turnaround is just around the corner. We are fit enough for sure, and we have enough talent around the ground, there's just something lacking between then ears. IF we play with the same intensity as the doggies did, we'll give the cats a real shake. Bring the intensity lads, that's really all I'm asking.
The betting odds our way don't look too generous.
GWS were shizen for sure. I thought the way the doggies played was very watchable. Wish we played a bit more like they did last night.
And as for my prediction against the cats - we will win! Ever the optimist, I believe our turnaround is just around the corner. We are fit enough for sure, and we have enough talent around the ground, there's just something lacking between then ears. IF we play with the same intensity as the doggies did, we'll give the cats a real shake. Bring the intensity lads, that's really all I'm asking.
I think everyone would agree, regardless of things like honorable losses sucking balls, and winning being everything, if both teams turn up and play their hearts out, and we lose by a kick or two, i'd be happy enough. If the cats are down, and we slack off for a quarter or two and lose by a kick i'll be demoralised, as per usual. if we get absolutely smacked it will be very, very worrying indeed, considering how much emphasis we should be placing on competing hard this week.
Not a hope in hell.
The betting odds our way don't look too generous.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/840/283/350.png)
We are a chance if the Cats turn up over cocky and think we are toast before the ball is bounced, resting Parfitt so new chum Stevens can play with no match fitness is a sign they dont rate us and think they just have to turn up.
I give us a chance if we can be with them at half time, its a weird season with clubs in pre season mode really and everyone looking out of tune and surprise results will be more common IMO.
Blues by 17 points over a cocky half arsed Cats lineup.....just love to see C. Scotts face in the box and the excuses he finds, we are due some luck and the law of averages has to have us winning at the Cattery sooner than later, this weird season might make it happen.
If we lose and are none from three its probably season over and Teague under the blowtorch, the players have to show they care and respond in the 1st quarter.
We are a chance if the Cats turn up over cocky and think we are toast before the ball is bounced, resting Parfitt so new chum Stevens can play with no match fitness is a sign they dont rate us and think they just have to turn up.
I give us a chance if we can be with them at half time, its a weird season with clubs in pre season mode really and everyone looking out of tune and surprise results will be more common IMO.
Blues by 17 points over a cocky half arsed Cats lineup.....just love to see C. Scotts face in the box and the excuses he finds, we are due some luck and the law of averages has to have us winning at the Cattery sooner than later, this weird season might make it happen.
If we lose and are none from three its probably season over and Teague under the blowtorch, the players have to show they care and respond in the 1st quarter.
Tell all the boys that they don't have a game next week (we play positive covid testing bombers!) and that this will be a defining game (and potentially their last) for 2020. Don't have to worry about backing it up next week, leave nothing in the tank!
We are a chance if the Cats turn up over cocky and think we are toast before the ball is bounced, resting Parfitt so new chum Stevens can play with no match fitness is a sign they dont rate us and think they just have to turn up.
I give us a chance if we can be with them at half time, its a weird season with clubs in pre season mode really and everyone looking out of tune and surprise results will be more common IMO.
Blues by 17 points over a cocky half arsed Cats lineup.....just love to see C. Scotts face in the box and the excuses he finds, we are due some luck and the law of averages has to have us winning at the Cattery sooner than later, this weird season might make it happen.
If we lose and are none from three its probably season over and Teague under the blowtorch, the players have to show they care and respond in the 1st quarter.
They rested Parfitt because they only have a one man band midfield to be concerned with. A half fit Stevens can easily rip us a new one as his opponent will likely be a kid.
Way too many stars in the midfield for our group to contend with. Weight of numbers will prevail. Watch for one of Dangerfield Ablett Stevens Selwood to get off the lease.
Can’t tag them all.
Can’t see us getting close to them.
Too many stars, too many contributors, too well coached, play that ground amazingly well, the perfect storm for us.