The post game starts,,,,, now!
So...Bombers next week.
Score flattered us. :(
I hope big Kruez is OK.
What a mongrel act by the untouchable Danger >:(
Not much you can say about that. Forward line is ok, just never gets there.
Injuries, late season, we've checked out for the year as we do late most years.
We may cop a number of hidings in the coming weeks
Why do we barrack for a footy club again?
Feel some blokes have run their race for the year. Weitering a worry, 3 possies and the missed tackle in the last was terrible.
Unable to generate any run out of the back, misses targets and getting smashed in the middle.
Coaching group have a tough gig to get the boys up
Winner, winner, chicken wing dinner.
Not much you can say about that. Forward line is ok, just never gets there.
Injuries, late season, we've checked out for the year as we do late most years.
Unfortunately our leaders think that is acceptable.
Our kids need better role models or we will never escape this cycle
At work and missed the game....was the Jones boy on Hawkins?
Don't tell me an opponent finally got the better of him
Why do we barrack for a footy club again?
More to the point - why do we barrack for THIS footy club again?
Unfortunately our leaders think that is acceptable.
Our kids need better role models or we will never escape this cycle
Yes, what would've been a good, highly competitive season is unravelling. Some leaders aren't working as they should and the younger ones are either injured or tired.
Not much you can say about that. Forward line is ok, just never gets there.
The forward line is crap, there's no defensive pressure at all apart from Silvagni and unless someone takes a mark the ball comes bouncing back out like it's hit a brick wall.
At work and missed the game....was the Jones boy on Hawkins?
Don't tell me an opponent finally got the better of him
Hawkins beat him on the night no doubt, when they were opposed...but the way we set up Jones was on him, off him.
I think everyone had a turn at some stage and at other times he seemed to have no opponent.
He wasn't handled well
Score flattered us. :(
Yep...Cats looked like they were only at half rat power most of the night.....players like Danger looked like they couldnt care less.
We were very poor and it looks like we are done and looking to just see out the season...
The forward line is crap, there's no defensive pressure at all apart from Silvagni and unless someone takes a mark the ball comes bouncing back out like it's hit a brick wall.
They're the only one's who hit the scoreboard tonight. Wright was the only small to nail a goal. The rest was crap, overall pressure was crap.
Given who we have missing the loss is no surprise. No clear winners, just cameos and glimpses from kids like big Charlie and Fish. Too many blokes are getting games because there simply is nobody else. The likes of Lamb, when is he going to contribute something? No leaders, no physicality, we're currently non competitive and irrelevant.
The lack of physicality in a physical game is pathetic. A million missed or batted aside tackles. Twice Levi could have massacred blokes in the hole and he didn't. Until we get ruthless we are stuffed.
Next week will be even uglier. I predicted 2-4 wins and the spoon. I reckon I'm closest to the pin right now. I'd cough up that pick for Kelly and Hopper, because if we go around in 2018 with the same midfield group we'll be relegated.
The only excitement I got was to jump on Ladbrokes and check Dusty's odd for the Brownlow. Did that about the time Kreuzer went down.
Not a great night. We're really missing Cripps and Ed Curnow. Too many kids running out of steam too. 9 players with single figures is not acceptable, but the cupboard is bare at VFL level too.
Loved Samo and Charlie tonight though, Harry's two goals showed his class. There are some positives in a largely forgettable game.
Given who we have missing the loss is no surprise. No clear winners, just cameos and glimpses from kids like big Charlie and Fish. Too many blokes are getting games because there simply is nobody else. The likes of Lamb, when is he going to contribute something? No leaders, no physicality, we're currently non competitive and irrelevant.
The lack of physicality in a physical game is pathetic. A million missed or batted aside tackles. Twice Levi could have massacred blokes in the hole and he didn't. Until we get ruthless we are stuffed.
Next week will be even uglier. I predicted 2-4 wins and the spoon. I reckon I'm closest to the pin right now. I'd cough up that pick for Kelly and Hopper, because if we go around in 2018 with the same midfield group we'll be relegated.
We are a very small light team, when you lose Cripps then Kreuzer we lack big bodies and its easy to push us around...the lack of size also means we struggle to stick tackles and the amount of
non tackles or broken tackles was high tonight IMO...
Given who we have missing the loss is no surprise. No clear winners, just cameos and glimpses from kids like big Charlie and Fish. Too many blokes are getting games because there simply is nobody else. The likes of Lamb, when is he going to contribute something? No leaders, no physicality, we're currently non competitive and irrelevant.
The lack of physicality in a physical game is pathetic. A million missed or batted aside tackles. Twice Levi could have massacred blokes in the hole and he didn't. Until we get ruthless we are stuffed.
Next week will be even uglier. I predicted 2-4 wins and the spoon. I reckon I'm closest to the pin right now. I'd cough up that pick for Kelly and Hopper, because if we go around in 2018 with the same midfield group we'll be relegated.
You mean there is a chance we could go down a league? We might become top dogs again.
It would nice if we could because it's boys versus men ATM. Watching the likes of Samo and Jack trying to drag down Menegola, Smith and Hawkins... It was just futile.
I was concerned with our drafting last year, a lot of small mids, and they aren't ever going to become big mids.
We are a very small light team, when you lose Cripps then Kreuzer we lack big bodies and its easy to push us around...the lack of size also means we struggle to stick tackles and the amount of
non tackles or broken tackles was high tonight IMO...
That was one area we were up on surprisingly. 85-69.
Not too bad as far as I can make out.
Maybe play Jaksch next week at FF and play Levi as first ruck? Is Byrne is fit I'd give him a run as well.
We need Dusty
We just can't afford to keep on having seasons like this one, there's been way too many of them and with every year that passes near the foot of the ladder it becomes harder to attract new members, particularly school kids.
We've tried short term fixes before and most long term supporters realise that the path we've taken this time is our only hope for success, but it will take time that I'm not sure that we have.
We are still 6 or 8 good players away from being a threat.
It would nice if we could because it's boys versus men ATM. Watching the likes of Samo and Jack trying to drag down Menegola, Smith and Hawkins... It was just futile.
I was concerned with our drafting last year, a lot of small mids, and they aren't ever going to become big mids.
Zac attack had a red hot crack too. Importantly, they tackled. Realistically we can't expect the outcome to be different, so long as the attempt and perseverance is there. One of the few smiles for me was watching Samo go hell for leather trying to bring down the likes of Smith. Was like he was swinging around a big pole ;)
We really have become irrelevant on the field. After some promising signs we are now staring down the barrel of another spoon. 4 years straigh now of absolute sh*t and 23 wins over that period, and tonight would suggest we are still miles away from having a consistent and competent AFL standard team.
There are so many things wrong it's hard to know where to start. Leadership of the team needs to be addressed because it is failing terribly at the moment. The list is still light years from being top 8 material and has more holes than Swiss cheese.
It's very hard to see how we can break the cycle of chronic underperformance with what we have at our disposal right now. We get to add 1 good pick this year which is hardly going to generate the sort of change we need. We are not far off requiring a priority pick to maintain competitiveness.
Really like Samos efforts today.
Extremely disappointed with Cunners meagre 6 posessions in a game where he had to help out stand and be counted in the middle.
Yes terrible game, stayed until the end as have taught the kids you have to stay until the end. Cats supporters were pretty quiet really so it wasn't too annoying.
I still have faith in BB and the boys. We do need some
Big bodies out there tho, I don't know if the navy blue is just particularly slimming but our boys did look like little kids next to the Cats, including our Snr players!
Also realised today, none of our boys take on the game anymore - no running bounces to get closer to the 50 - of course when I thought it, Fish went ahead and did it! But that run seems gone from our game - is that just youth running out of puff?
Charlie really seems Something special. Hope MK is ok and would laugh is Danger went for it.
Oh and absolutely loathe Tuohy and Hendo - makes My blood boil that they'll be playing finals. screwers.
The rot stems from the top - Murphy is a soft leader, Gibbs his equal, arguably not a peanut of a leader...
Our midfield is embarrassing.
Not a great night. We're really missing Cripps and Ed Curnow. Too many kids running out of steam too. 9 players with single figures is not acceptable, but the cupboard is bare at VFL level too.
Loved Samo and Charlie tonight though, Harry's two goals showed his class. There are some positives in a largely forgettable game.
20 disposals and game high 10 tackles. Did well the kid, unfortunately had no mates. CC tried hard, H showed glimpses of the future. The midfield needs sooooooo much work. We can go to the draft obviously but its going to take a few years to fix (ie more drafting and development of what young mids we already have). Cunners would want to get a wriggle on and find some consistency or he will find himself on the scrap heap sooner than he realises. I am not suggesting he needs to single handedly needs win us games as he is just a kid, but he needs to show a hell of a lot more in a side screaming for midfield effort.
Didn't see the game, but not overly surprised by the result.
My question is, with Cripps and Curnow out, why aren't the likes of Palmer and Smedts getting a game? It's times like now, late in the season when we have a few injuries that they should be useful additions to the team.
Not great form in the VFL probably hasn't helped them, but it's disappointing......
Didn't see the game, but not overly surprised by the result.
My question is, with Cripps and Curnow out, why aren't the likes of Palmer and Smedts getting a game? It's times like now, late in the season when we have a few injuries that they should be useful additions to the team.
Not great form in the VFL probably hasn't helped them, but it's disappointing......
Good post.
We drafted these guys for his exact situation and yet they still can't crack a game.
Really like Samos efforts today.
Extremely disappointed with Cunners meagre 6 posessions in a game where he had to help out stand and be counted in the middle.
The game plan is wrong. 98 handballs is an awful worry. We don't share it around.
Didn't see the game, but not overly surprised by the result.
My question is, with Cripps and Curnow out, why aren't the likes of Palmer and Smedts getting a game? It's times like now, late in the season when we have a few injuries that they should be useful additions to the team.
Not great form in the VFL probably hasn't helped them, but it's disappointing......
my thoughts exactly
Is that 3 injuries in 2 years for Dangerfield v Carlton?
Murphy, Judd and Kruezer.
Any chance we ever, ever, ever do anything about it?
Good post.
We drafted these guys for his exact situation and yet they still can't crack a game.
We didn't want them, their clubs didn't want them to stay so we got blackmailed into taking them as steak knives with the players and picks we wanted!
My thoughts exactly JH, that's why I was so p!ssed when Casboult failed to nail a couple standing in his space. While we let blokes like Danger lord it over us we will remain irrelevant - we have zero respect. We have to earn it the hard way.
Just watched the replay of the Kreuzer incident, why didn't he get a free for holding the man?
I think Bryce held Danger for a split second too long and got pinged.
Frigging umpires.
Did you see Selwood tummy tap Kerridge ?
Umpiring didn't affect the result but the Cats get away with murder...constant throws, front on or highish tackles, infringements around the contest - a lot of marginal stuff goes their way.
Just watched the replay of the Kreuzer incident, why didn't he get a free for holding the man?
I think Bryce held Danger for a split second too long and got pinged.
Frigging umpires.
Or when Murph got pinged for holding in the man in the centre of the ground in the 3rd or 4th??? That was a disgrace. Dangerfield you can barely lay a finger on and the umps blow their whistle. The free to Hawkins in a ruck contest with Kruze where the ump said he was dragged down. BS, as soon and Kruze made contact, he dropped his knees and threw himself backwards, arms outstretched (like his kent of a coach does in the box), whistle, free, goal!!! Yes there were some aweful frees, thats not why we got hammered though.
Is that 3 injuries in 2 years for Dangerfield v Carlton?
Murphy, Judd and Kruezer.
Any chance we ever, ever, ever do anything about it?
Ill bet Bambi doesnt even get cited. If he does, it will be a fine at worst. Our Club should complain strongly if this occurs. I see little difference between what he did last night and what Gibbs to Gray a few years ago.
Did you see Selwood tummy tap Kerridge ?
Umpiring didn't affect the result but the Cats get away with murder...constant throws, front on or highish tackles, infringements around the contest - a lot of marginal stuff goes their way.
Those constant throws they do. Selwood got pinged twice for it and he was gobsmacked he did anything wrong.
Our tackling was crape. Would always grab around the waist and leave their arms free to dish the ball off.
85 tackles by us is a fair effort by current standards - the problem is that when you factor in the number of tackles that we missed or that the Cats managed to break, in combination with the amount of ball they had, the 85 doesn't seem so great.
The ease with which Geelong moved the ball all over the park is a big worry. Our forwards and mids don't apply much pressure, and the back 6 are constantly up against it.
Weitering is a huge worry for mine. He looks like a bloke taken from the 3rd round in the Rookie draft, not a former No 1. If this is our club's idea of development, then watch out.
There seems to be a lot of talk about getting games into kids, as if this will somehow make things alright. I'm not convinced by this. The bigger problem for mine is recruitment and body size. We look puny compared to the Cats. Blokes like Murphy, Fisher, Lamb etc., they can have 200 games under their belt, they will still be puny, and easily brushed off the contest. Big worry IMO.
Also, hit outs, contested possessions, clearances, we either won or broke even. When you compare this with the disposal tally, it shows that we can get our hands on the ball, and then lose it far too quickly - in short, we're still turnover merchants, and don't defend well once the turnover occurs. The I50 count is reflective of the forwards and mids not working hard enough.
Ill bet Bambi doesnt even get cited. If he does, it will be a fine at worst. Our Club should complain strongly if this occurs. I see little difference between what he did last night and what Gibbs to Gray a few years ago.
Bambi?
Our side is full of Bambi's.
We are in NO position to call anyone else soft.
Great day to hang our head in shame
Bambi?
Our side is full of Bambi's.
We are in NO position to call anyone else soft.
Great day to hang our head in shame
I think he means Bambi as in sweet and innocent, can do no wrong, protected species etc. Not as in soft.
Danger has to go as the precedent was set with Cam McCarthy. MRP has no way out.
Bambi?
Our side is full of Bambi's.
We are in NO position to call anyone else soft.
Great day to hang our head in shame
Mate not calling him Bambi because he is soft, its because he is protected and loved species.
PS Dangerfield is the best player in the comp by a fair way. Does it all better than most, the complete complete package who wins games off his own boot and is at the peak of his powers.
Mate not calling him Bambi because he is soft, its because he is protected and loved species.
PS Dangerfield is the best player in the comp by a fair way. Does it all better than most, the complete complete package who wins games off his own boot and is at the peak of his powers.
Ok I get it now but I think we all need to understand where we are at.
Stop making excuses for our senior players, because "they have to carry a heavy load" or they are not "inside" mids.
Leaders are supposed to overcome, not fold when the heat is on.
If our leaders give up, what does that say to the kids.
This is exactly the same stuff Murphy and Gibbs learnt from their leaders when they first joined Carlton.
By the time Jude arrived, it was too late.
Nick Stevens had set the "standard"
I hope big Kruez is OK.
What a mongrel act by the untouchable Danger >:(
No free kick? In fact, they got a goal from it!!
BS, as soon and Kruze made contact, he dropped his knees and threw himself backwards, arms outstretched (like his kent of a coach does in the box), whistle, free, goal!!!
Just watching the replay and I can see a bit of the Scott arms out stretched whinging action creeping into Danger's game. As soon as he is touched he looks to the umpire - even during play!! No commentator will ever call him on it though!!
McKay only the four possessions, but we have ourselves a player. Of that I'm sure.
McKay only the four possessions, but we have ourselves a player. Of that I'm sure.
Agree...got good skills for a big bloke and footy nous.....
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/patrick-dangerfield-says-his-tackle-of-matthew-kreuzer-was-fair-20170730-gxlkqu.html
See, he's innocent.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/patrick-dangerfield-says-his-tackle-of-matthew-kreuzer-was-fair-20170730-gxlkqu.html
See, he's innocent.
Of course he is, and the media won't reference a single contradictory precedent to challenge his claims!
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/patrick-dangerfield-says-his-tackle-of-matthew-kreuzer-was-fair-20170730-gxlkqu.html
See, he's innocent.
The pinning of arms and driving his head into the turf is 'fair?' Does the arrogance of this Dangerfield character know no bounds?
But, alas, Cotchin and Dangerfield are two AFL designated players to be cut more slack than anyone else.
Of course he is, and the media won't reference a single contradictory precedent to challenge his claims!
I wish the AFL would impose legal style gag order on these types of incidents - attempting to influence the outcome by commenting publicly is complete BS IMO.
Looks like with injuries and tired young players the last few games are going to be painful. Still up until round 17 we were super competitive, made life miserable for nearly every side we played, actually led 5 times in the last qtr and lost, have had 5 rising star nominations, and Harry could well make 6 before the year is out, we're on the right track. We'll be a much better side again next year with another year under the belt of these young players.
Think I'd rest a few young players next week and bring in some bigger bodies like Palmer, Smedts, and even Jaksch so to give Weitering a rest. They're strugglers admittedly but in a couple of cases there are workers too. The young blokes are out on their feet.
The pinning of arms and driving his head into the turf is 'fair?' Does the arrogance of this Dangerfield character know no bounds?
But, alas, Cotchin and Dangerfield are two AFL designated players to be cut more slack than anyone else.
Agree. Smacks of inequity and boys club, which IS the AFL.
Watson was another such designated player until an expensive, code denigrating battle took place ???
Looks like with injuries and tired young players the last few games are going to be painful. Still up until round 17 we were super competitive, made life miserable for nearly every side we played, actually led 5 times in the last qtr and lost, have had 5 rising star nominations, and Harry could well make 6 before the year is out, we're on the right track. We'll be a much better side again next year with another year under the belt of these young players.
Think I'd rest a few young players next week and bring in some bigger bodies like Palmer, Smedts, and even Jaksch so to give Weitering a rest. They're strugglers admittedly but in a couple of cases there are workers too. The young blokes are out on their feet.
X2 well said.
85 tackles by us is a fair effort by current standards - the problem is that when you factor in the number of tackles that we missed or that the Cats managed to break, in combination with the amount of ball they had, the 85 doesn't seem so great.
The ease with which Geelong moved the ball all over the park is a big worry. Our forwards and mids don't apply much pressure, and the back 6 are constantly up against it.
Weitering is a huge worry for mine. He looks like a bloke taken from the 3rd round in the Rookie draft, not a former No 1. If this is our club's idea of development, then watch out.
There seems to be a lot of talk about getting games into kids, as if this will somehow make things alright. I'm not convinced by this. The bigger problem for mine is recruitment and body size. We look puny compared to the Cats. Blokes like Murphy, Fisher, Lamb etc., they can have 200 games under their belt, they will still be puny, and easily brushed off the contest. Big worry IMO.
All good points PaulP, our size especially through the midfield has been an issue for many years, comes back to recruiting if other teams have them , well we should be able to as well.
Thinking similar re Weitering, seems a shadow of when he started, which is sad hope it's not a permanent step back. Running out of players to try some of the kids look knackered and need a rest before we do more damage.injuries have really cut deep so options are Li tied, but we have a few in the NB's that could get us through the last few weeks
Looks like with injuries and tired young players the last few games are going to be painful. Still up until round 17 we were super competitive, made life miserable for nearly every side we played, actually led 5 times in the last qtr and lost, have had 5 rising star nominations, and Harry could well make 6 before the year is out, we're on the right track. We'll be a much better side again next year with another year under the belt of these young players.
Think I'd rest a few young players next week and bring in some bigger bodies like Palmer, Smedts, and even Jaksch so to give Weitering a rest. They're strugglers admittedly but in a couple of cases there are workers too. The young blokes are out on their feet.
I agree with most of that except for resting the kids, they want to play and need to play.
We'll know where we are by round 10 of 2019, until then we just have to back them in.
Nick Stevens had set the "standard"
Stevens was head and shoulders the best midfielder in the worst Carlton team of all time, Matthews, Barassi and Whitten rolled into one couldn't have done anything more.
I saw him punch the ground in frustration when the siren went at Princes Park one day after a particularly abysmal loss, so hard did he find it to accept.
All good points PaulP, our size especially through the midfield has been an issue for many years, comes back to recruiting if other teams have them , well we should be able to as well.
Thinking similar re Weitering, seems a shadow of when he started, which is sad hope it's not a permanent step back. Running out of players to try some of the kids look knackered and need a rest before we do more damage.injuries have really cut deep so options are Li tied, but we have a few in the NB's that could get us through the last few weeks
Yes Rob. Nothing to lose playing whoever is fit and raring to go, irrespective of form, age or skill level. The season results are meaningless from here on in, apart from more pain and suffering and whinging from us.
Stevens was head and shoulders the best midfielder in the worst Carlton team of all time, Matthews, Barassi and Whitten rolled into one couldn't have done anything more.
I saw him punch the ground in frustration when the siren went at Princes Park one day after a particularly abysmal loss, so hard did he find it to accept.
Played with a broken neck for a few weeks too.
Wasn't the worst 'standard' to have been set.
Stevens was head and shoulders the best midfielder in the worst Carlton team of all time, Matthews, Barassi and Whitten rolled into one couldn't have done anything more.
I saw him punch the ground in frustration when the siren went at Princes Park one day after a particularly abysmal loss, so hard did he find it to accept.
Stevens was a big Ratten fan, which, given certain people's binary world view, is therefore incapable of doing anything good.
Stevens was head and shoulders the best midfielder in the worst Carlton team of all time, Matthews, Barassi and Whitten rolled into one couldn't have done anything more.
I saw him punch the ground in frustration when the siren went at Princes Park one day after a particularly abysmal loss, so hard did he find it to accept.
Punching the ground after a loss is great.
He didn't run defensively or tackle or take an over head mark for fear of body contact tho.
He may have been the best player in a crap side, but what u don't understand or don't get is that half assed defensive efforts from senior players sets an example for kids.
Do u think it's acceptable that some players stick tackles and others get brushed aside?
If we want to improve we need better leaders, win lose or draw, showing the way.
Stevens was a big Ratten fan, which, given certain people's binary world view, is therefore incapable of doing anything good.
Yet at one stage Ratten had him running around in the VFL and Darren Pfeiffer in the seniors, go figure.
When it got to the ridiculous stage after a couple of 100 point thrashings good old Ratts came to his senses, then lost them again when he played Hoops as sub in his 200th game.
Stevo may have been a Ratten fan but I sure wasnt, great player but a disaster as a coach.
Yet at one stage Ratten had him running around in the VFL and Darren Pfeiffer in the seniors, go figure.
When it got to the ridiculous stage after a couple of 100 point thrashings good old Ratts came to his senses, then lost them again when he played Hoops as sub in his 200th game.
Stevo may have been a Ratten fan but I sure wasnt, great player but a disaster as a coach.
Maybe Ratts knew footy wasn't a one way game and was trying to teach him.
I think I will take Ratts knowledge and understanding of what was needed over Stevens one way footy
Punching the ground after a loss is great.
He didn't run defensively or tackle or take an over head mark for fear of body contact tho.
That must have been how he got his neck busted, by avoiding body contact.
We all see the game differently, I thought that Stevens went as hard as anyone and harder than most but became a whipping boy for frustrated supporters like Murphy is for some now.
We'll agree to disagree.
Yet at one stage Ratten had him running around in the VFL and Darren Pfeiffer in the seniors, go figure.
When it got to the ridiculous stage after a couple of 100 point thrashings good old Ratts came to his senses, then lost them again when he played Hoops as sub in his 200th game.
Stevo may have been a Ratten fan but I sure wasnt, great player but a disaster as a coach.
I've been given a polite nudge by Lods to stay away from the Ratten talk, but calling him a disaster as a coach is the biggest load of puke inducing nonsense I've ever heard.
I've been given a polite nudge by Lods to stay away from the Ratten talk, but calling him a disaster as a coach is the biggest load of puke inducing nonsense I've ever heard.
We'll agree to disagree.
Yet at one stage Ratten had him running around in the VFL and Darren Pfeiffer in the seniors, go figure.
When it got to the ridiculous stage after a couple of 100 point thrashings good old Ratts came to his senses, then lost them again when he played Hoops as sub in his 200th game.
Stevo may have been a Ratten fan but I sure wasnt, great player but a disaster as a coach.
LOL!!!! He took us from the bottom to finals in two seasons with a pretty average side and were there the next two years. You not notice the 5 years before and the 3 years after.
Did we lose by 100pts under Ratts? Don't think so. You need to go back to the dill coaching us before for that.
Didn't want to go back to Ratts etc.. but B4L this will not go down as your best post. Wish we were this disastrous now...lol.
LOL!!!! He took us from the bottom to finals in two seasons with a pretty average side and were there the next two years. You not notice the 5 years before and the 3 years after.
Did we lose by 100pts under Ratts? Don't think so. You need to go back to the dill coaching us before for that.
Didn't want to go back to Ratts etc.. but B4L this will not go down as your best post. Wish we were this disastrous now...lol.
It's been done to death already Laj, we'd best leave it at that.
No free kick? In fact, they got a goal from it!!
Similarly, JSelwood kicked in danger (fresh air) just missing Simo's head. Simo as usual with his head over the ball. No free. Goal to cats >:(
Anyway, when does the "protect the head" come into decisions??
Ratten's problem was he relied on the same pretenders who still let us down today. Never forget Marc Murphy's performance on the footy show after Ratten was sacked.
Is that 3 injuries in 2 years for Dangerfield v Carlton?
Murphy, Judd and Kruezer.
Any chance we ever, ever, ever do anything about it?
Snap
Just watching the replay and I can see a bit of the Scott arms out stretched whinging action creeping into Danger's game. As soon as he is touched he looks to the umpire - even during play!! No commentator will ever call him on it though!!
Made me puke to have to listen to how "brave" Lonergan is when both he and Kruezer went down within a few seconds of eachother. It was almost like the commentators were thankful for a distraction so they wouldn't have to cast aspersions on Dangerfield's intent. Later in the quarter one of them expressed surprise that social media was buzzing about the tackle. Nice one Paddy - take out our prime mover. Nothing to see here though folks - it was only against Carlton.
On the other hand, love the way the cameras are now trained on Scott - the second worst coach in the AFL - who's becoming a parody of himself and a great role model for coaches of junior sides throughout the country.
Ratten's problem was he relied on the same pretenders who still let us down today. Never forget Marc Murphy's performance on the footy show after Ratten was sacked.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0sEiCGImk
Yes? And? What the fck was he supposed to say and do?
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/patrick-dangerfield-says-his-tackle-of-matthew-kreuzer-was-fair-20170730-gxlkqu.html (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/patrick-dangerfield-says-his-tackle-of-matthew-kreuzer-was-fair-20170730-gxlkqu.html)
Listen to the commentator - Ling I'd reckon - on about how Kreuzer "hurt himself".
Did Kreuzer even ever have the ball?
Certainly got held onto a long time after the ball had gone and he most certainly was unable to break his fall....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0sEiCGImk
Yes? And? What the fck was he supposed to say and do?
Thanks for making me watching that train wreck again. Problem for starters not saying we were a bit in holiday mode going into the game. :))
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0sEiCGImk
Yes? And? What the fck was he supposed to say and do?
Heath Scotland came out after Ratts was sacked and said the only thing that could be said - that the players had Ratts' blood on their hands and made his sacking so much easier for the board, who in all likelihood already had Mick in the bag.
Poor showing by Murph - looked like he didn't care.
Heath Scotland came out after Ratts was sacked and said the only thing that could be said - that the players had Ratts' blood on their hands and made his sacking so much easier for the board, who in all likelihood already had Mick in the bag.
Poor showing by Murph - looked like he didn't care.
Agree...looked like he agreed with the decision to sack Ratten....at the time I probably agreed with Rattens sacking but looking back now given where we are his results were not too bad
given what he had to work with..
Ratten is a really good coach - this isnt hindsight stuff even Parkin was saying out of all coaches under his tutelage Ratten has probably got the best understanding of the game,
What screwed him over was Swann - Ratts wanted to go out and trade for tall forwards end of 2011 and Swann did not allow it and instead we draft Josh Bootsma and Sam Rowe
Was at the game last night and one thing i noticed was their direct hardness at the player when we had the ball.
I hate Selwood and Dangerfield with a passion but FMD you have to respect them. They go all game and they go hard when they don't have the ball. Selwood in particular runs like a madman direct at our blokes and his pressure is why we turn it over so often.
We tend to guard space and corral the opposition rather then commit and go straight at a player and tackle - and when we do go the amount of missed tackles drove me forking mad.
Gibbs has a interesting technique when the opposition has the ball - he tackles and then continues to softly hold the opposition player that just moved the ball on even if by a handball only 5 metres away rather then busting his arse running to the next contest. Its obvious why he does it.
I remember Simmo's 250th last year. Dying minutes Murphy, Gibbs and Simmo were sprinting from contest to contest to save that game.
So I guess if it matter enough to them they will put defensive pressure on.
It was clear last night it didn't matter. :-[
Feel sorry for our young kids...almost will have to do it on their own to get us to improve.
Agree...looked like he agreed with the decision to sack Ratten....at the time I probably agreed with Rattens sacking but looking back now given where we are his results were not too bad
given what he had to work with..
Ah brother Elwood, just like Saul on the road to Damascus, you've seen the light. Now, some more proselytising on my part, followed by the conversion of mbb and kruddler, and then my work here is done.
Is that 3 injuries in 2 years for Dangerfield v Carlton?
Murphy, Judd and Kruezer.
Any chance we ever, ever, ever do anything about it?
Glad there are others who have noticed the same thing...
Heath Scotland came out after Ratts was sacked and said the only thing that could be said - that the players had Ratts' blood on their hands and made his sacking so much easier for the board, who in all likelihood already had Mick in the bag.
Poor showing by Murph - looked like he didn't care.
Just looked unprepared to me. Would be surprised if the ch9 muppets threw him under the bus.
Glad there are others who have noticed the same thing...
The bullies can bully because they know the crew we had on the park won't stand up to them!
Our lot appear to me to be too obsessed with the safe working environment, getting home unscathed. I genuinely believe our introverts think "If we don't push them, they won't push us!" But it's AFL kiddies, turning the other cheek just means the opponent will smash both. The sport is full of pricks, if you think you can be nice, stay quiet and safe you put a massive target on your back to end up as road kill!
Agree...looked like he agreed with the decision to sack Ratten....at the time I probably agreed with Rattens sacking but looking back now given where we are his results were not too bad
given what he had to work with..
He had 5 1/2 years and at the end of it our playing list was rooted, which partly but not wholly explains why we are where we are today.
Undoubtedly the recruiting and list management decisions weren't all down to him but there's no doubt that our list was in worse shape at the end of his tenure than at the beginning.
Make of it what you will.
Just looked unprepared to me. Would be surprised if the ch9 muppets threw him under the bus.
I guess there's that - also, the club probably had him on a very short leash.
Heath Scotland came out after Ratts was sacked and said the only thing that could be said - that the players had Ratts' blood on their hands and made his sacking so much easier for the board, who in all likelihood already had Mick in the bag.
Poor showing by Murph - looked like he didn't care.
Murph interviews like he plays. He reminds me of longshanks son...the thought just doesn't go away
(loved the horn at the end)
I've been waiting for the Green Shoot thread but my patience is wearing thin.
I thought Samo played his best game for us last night. Obviously he still has a long way to go but his impact on the game was streets ahead of Cuningham and Fisher and he really did make a meaningful contribution to our hopelessly outnumbered midfield.
However, there was one moment in the game that warmed the cockles of my heart. There was a ball up just outside Geelong's 50 in the last quarter. As soon as the ball was tossed up, Samo ran past the the contest and ran through J Selwood. It looked to be a heavy hit although Selwood could have been trying to milk a free.
I don't know if Samo was evening up for one of Selwood's cheap shots against him or a team mate, but for a 19 year old lightweight to take out one of the polished tirds of the game, and get away with it, promises so much for the future. :)
AFL top 10 round 19
H running goal from a huge soccer kick by Charlie. Charlie managed the hands free kick while being mauled by his opponent.
Surprised that Charlie's beautiful one arm grab against Hendo didn't get a gig. He held hendo off with one arm and marked with the other.
Congratulations to H and Charlie.
It's hilarious.
People on this forum want Murphy and Gibbs to go harder.
Some players aren't built for it. They are not driven by it, and even when going hard will not go like the others who go hard.
They're different types. Murphy has gotten belted from pillar to post going hard. He's a smaller sized classy type who can win the hard ball, but can't drop a player. That's ok, you don't go rally driving with a sports car.
Gibbs is more of an all terrain vehicle. Doesn't have another gear but can get down and dirty with the best of them, just don't expect any punishment to get dished out by these guys.
You set yourself up for disappointment.
What you are looking for is a tank. We only have a couple and the only effective ones are on ice for the season. kerridge looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. THATS one you should ask questions of. He finds intensity sparingly
Just looked unprepared to me. Would be surprised if the ch9 muppets threw him under the bus.
He looked like the 25yo put in the spotlight for the biggest story going around at the time. And Sam was goading him to make him look as crap as possible.
Some Captains have that egotistical swagger, some say arrogance - Murph just doesn't have that, never has. Those types know how to deflect because they're used to bullsh1tting bullsh1tters - Murph wasn't one back then and not one now. He had very obviously been coached to death about what to say and being the good boy he is, he towed the company line.
Meanwhile Scotty was older, had some street smarts and knew by saying what he really thought would do him no damage.
However, there was one moment in the game that warmed the cockles of my heart. There was a ball up kust outside Geelong's 50 in the last quarter. As soon as the ball was tossed up, Samo ran past the the contest and ran through J Selwood. It looked to be a heavy hit although Selwood could have been trying to milk a free.
I don't know if Samo was evening up for one of Selwood's cheap shots against him or a team mate, but for a 19 year old lightweight to take out one of polished tirds of the game, and get away with it, promises so much for the future
Love this - might have to watch the replay just to see this
It's hilarious.
People on this forum want Murphy and Gibbs to go harder.
Some players aren't built for it. They are not driven by it, and even when going hard will not go like the others who go hard.
They're different types. Murphy has gotten belted from pillar to post going hard. He's a smaller sized classy type who can win the hard ball, but can't drop a player. That's ok, you don't go rally driving with a sports car.
Gibbs is more of an all terrain vehicle. Doesn't have another gear but can get down and dirty with the best of them, just don't expect any punishment to get dished out by these guys.
You set yourself up for disappointment.
What you are looking for is a tank. We only have a couple and the only effective ones are on ice for the season. kerridge looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. THATS one you should ask questions of. He finds intensity sparingly
It's hilarious
Imagine John Longmire saying that about two of his mids and one being the captain.
Seriously they're our captain and vice captain and two of our highest paid players and you want to make excuses for them?
Why? Because that's not their go.
Wow that is exactly why we are in the position we are in.
We continue to accept this crap.
When did Carlton become so pathetic
Murphy and Gibbs are fine, early in the year Murphy was tackling as hard and ferocious as anyone. I suspect the change is that he is now carrying an injury.
I'm more worried about the general passiveness of our list, initially the young kids seemed to show aggression, there were clear signs we stuck up for each other. But as the year progressed they have become more and more submissive, they too could be carrying injuries we don't know about. In the absence of ACoS it seems Daisy is now about the most aggressive player we have!
Probably the only player who has progressed in the positive direction is Charlie Curnow, it's clear he isn't happy getting picked off at the edge of the herd! When opposition attempt to bully or push him about he goes up a gear, which is the right thing to do if you want to avoid being a victim!
I'll be super pissed off if we find post season a bunch of these kids have been played injured barely before they stopped growing!
When Bolton came on board, part of his reset was to assess the captaincy and leadership group. I don't remember the exact process, but Murph was voted back in as the Captain, with I believe, Bolton's full backing.
Now whether you think this process was fair dinkum or a load of PR mumbo jumbo is up to you.
It's the Casboult principle - we play Murph and Gibbs, and make them Captain / Vice Captain, because other potential candidates are too young or unsuitable. I.e, there really isn't anyone else at this point.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2016-02-16/murphy-to-captain-new-generation
Question is.... have things changed twelve months down the track?
I'd like to see a change...I even wonder whether Murphy wouldn't mind being relieved of the captaincy.
Question is.... have things changed twelve months down the track?
I'd like to see a change...I even wonder whether Murphy wouldn't mind being relieved of the captaincy.
We'll know soon enough.
I'll be super pissed off if we find post season a bunch of these kids have been played injured barely before they stopped growing!
I think that's exactly what you'll find. I know BB expects players to play through the pain (subject to team doctor approval) - it was the Clarkson/Hawthorn mantra as well which was fine with seasoned bodies or with players like Hodge who have fewer neurons. Weitering is still 19. 19!!! Yet he's been poleaxed by monsters week in week out. Hardly been the same since he nearly broke his neck saving that goal last year.
Also of concern to me are the observations that, once again, it was "boys v. men" on Saturday night. Weren't we saying this 5 years ago? ... 10 years ago? Sheesh, we just can't get the recruiting mix right. Words fail me.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/patrick-dangerfield-must-be-suspended-for-tackle-on-matthew-kreuzer-concussion-researcher-20170730-gxln9u.html
MRP, are you there ?
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/patrick-dangerfield-must-be-suspended-for-tackle-on-matthew-kreuzer-concussion-researcher-20170730-gxln9u.html (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/patrick-dangerfield-must-be-suspended-for-tackle-on-matthew-kreuzer-concussion-researcher-20170730-gxln9u.html)
I think that's exactly what you'll find. I know BB expects players to play through the pain (subject to team doctor approval) - it was the Clarkson/Hawthorn mantra as well which was fine with seasoned bodies or with players like Hodge who have fewer neurons. Weitering is still 19. 19!!! Yet he's been poleaxed by monsters week in week out. Hardly been the same since he nearly broke his neck saving that goal last year.
Also of concern to me are the observations that, once again, it was "boys v. men" on Saturday night. Weren't we saying this 5 years ago? ... 10 years ago? Sheesh, we just can't get the recruiting mix right. Words fail me.
Who was monstering him? Hawkins?
Its a tough, hard game. If he's injured - agreed, get him off the park. if he's right to go, he plays.
His problems are mostly between his ears right now imo.
The Gilbert incident.
Hard to say there's much/any diference imo.
https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/is-fremantles-cam-mccarthy-in-mrp-trouble-for-his-tackle-on-sam-gilbert-ng-b88524936z (https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/is-fremantles-cam-mccarthy-in-mrp-trouble-for-his-tackle-on-sam-gilbert-ng-b88524936z)
It's hilarious
Imagine John Longmire saying that about two of his mids and one being the captain.
Seriously they're our captain and vice captain and two of our highest paid players and you want to make excuses for them?
Why? Because that's not their go.
Wow that is exactly why we are in the position we are in.
We continue to accept this crap.
When did Carlton become so pathetic
You need to adjust your expectations.
Dan Hannebery doesnt go as hard as you think he does, and doesn't cope when getting heavy attention. Thing is he is surrounded by enough players that can shoulder the go hard load for him and then sticks to what is his go.
I watched Murphy emerge from no less than 3 Geelong players in a pack with the ball in hand on a couple of occasions on Saturday. The fact that he wasn't then able to bring down the next Geelong player with the footy in hand doesn't make him any less hard at the contest, it's just not a strength of his (bringing players down). We need to start playing our boys to their strengths, rather than expecting them to play like super heroes who don't get tired, and don't make errors who have perfectly functioning limbs. His shoulder is about as cooked as Jamo's was, and I suspect that Murphy will not last much longer playing footy unless he changes the way he approaches his game.
Gibbs also looks like he struggles with his arms due to the torn pectoral muscle off the bone, and his issue isnt that he doesnt drag players down, his issue is that he is not capable of emerging from a pack of 3 or more opponents with the ball in hand, and getting the ball going on our terms but he is a very good play maker who can get rough and ready.
The players are not the problem, the expectations on them are.
This is what we have been contending with for the better part of the last 14 years. A couple of guns, a few players that are handy and quite a few that would struggle to get a game on any other list.
You need to adjust your expectations.
Dan Hannebery doesnt go as hard as you think he does, and doesn't cope when getting heavy attention. Thing is he is surrounded by enough players that can shoulder the go hard load for him and then sticks to what is his go.
I watched Murphy emerge from no less than 3 Geelong players in a pack with the ball in hand on a couple of occasions on Saturday. The fact that he wasn't then able to bring down the next Geelong player with the footy in hand doesn't make him any less hard at the contest, it's just not a strength of his (bringing players down). We need to start playing our boys to their strengths, rather than expecting them to play like super heroes who don't get tired, and don't make errors who have perfectly functioning limbs. His shoulder is about as cooked as Jamo's was, and I suspect that Murphy will not last much longer playing footy unless he changes the way he approaches his game.
Gibbs also looks like he struggles with his arms due to the torn pectoral muscle off the bone, and his issue isnt that he doesnt drag players down, his issue is that he is not capable of emerging from a pack of 3 or more opponents with the ball in hand, and getting the ball going on our terms but he is a very good play maker who can get rough and ready.
The players are not the problem, the expectations on them are.
This is what we have been contending with for the better part of the last 14 years. A couple of guns, a few players that are handy and quite a few that would struggle to get a game on any other list.
You're onto something here 3 Leos.
I jumped into the car around 9 last night for a quick visit to the supermarket and tuned to SEN and caught them talking about our poor midfield. The commentator pointed out that we have one of the lightest and smallest midfields (except for Crippa) and that we must bring into the club bigger bodied mids. Hard to argue with that. Has anyone here stood next to Murphy? Expecting him to do in-and-under stuff is sending a lamb to the slaughter and then expecting Cripps to do it all (as was pointed out by the commentator) is just pounding him too much. Food for thought.
You're onto something here 3 Leos.
I jumped into the car around 9 last night for a quick visit to the supermarket and tuned to SEN and caught them talking about our poor midfield. The commentator pointed out that we have one of the lightest and smallest midfields (except for Crippa) and that we must bring into the club bigger bodied mids. Hard to argue with that. Has anyone here stood next to Murphy? Expecting him to do in-and-under stuff is sending a lamb to the slaughter and then expecting Cripps to do it all (as was pointed out by the commentator) is just pounding him too much. Food for thought.
I don't expect him to do it.
But he aint doing a lot else.
If he wants to play on the wings and in the pockets, pay him accordingly and don't make him Captain FFS.
He is not an elite kick. He is not super fast.
JH, I'm safely assuming you've never been a fan of his appointment as Captain - not when it was first announced, and not now. No doubt there are others who feel the same. But we have to accept that he's been endorsed by 2 very different regimes and playing groups, so whatever we as supporters see, the club and its various individuals appear to see it differently.
At most, next season will be his last as skipper IMO, and a change may happen at the end of this season.
JH, I'm safely assuming you've never been a fan of his appointment as Captain - not when it was first announced, and not now. No doubt there are others who feel the same. But we have to accept that he's been endorsed by 2 very different regimes and playing groups, so whatever we as supporters see, the club and its various individuals appear to see it differently.
At most, next season will be his last as skipper IMO, and a change may happen at the end of this season.
I have no issue with Murphy, but I don't believe that type of player is captaincy material.
He should never have been paid as our top player. Cripps is far more valuable, and a Dusty Martin is worth 2 - 2.5 times as much as Murphy.
The basics of our game don't change.
Look at the midfields of Brisbane circa 2001, Sydney last 8 years, Hawthorn last 8 years.
They all have multiple players providing grunt, and their captains are tough and ruthless.
I doubt the new regime/board was prepared to make a change, once he had been given the role.
Finding a Voss or a Hodge is not that easy.
Who was your choice for Captain when Judd vacated the position ?
Finding a Voss or a Hodge is not that easy.
Who was your choice for Captain when Judd vacated the position ?
I get that, but now Cripps should be.
I would have made him skipper this year.
Kruezer or Simpson would have been a better bet at the time.
I don't expect him to do it.
But he aint doing a lot else.
If he wants to play on the wings and in the pockets, pay him accordingly and don't make him Captain FFS.
He is not an elite kick. He is not super fast.
Captains are more than just 4 quarters on a saturday.
Simpson, Carrazzo or Murphy were our candidates at the time of Judds departure.
Dressing room politics dictates who the better captain is, not what they will do on a weekend.
This is why Nick Maxwell and Tom Harley made good captains.
This is why Marc Murphy may have been the best choice that our club had at the time, and why his tenure has been somewhat laboured, because our dressing room is anything but united.
Only Chris Judd could unite our dressing room, and even he could only manage it for 2 seasons.
I get that, but now Cripps should be.
I would have made him skipper this year.
Kruezer or Simpson would have been a better bet at the time.
I was a fan of Simmo being made Captain.
Whilst one could argue that these guys mentioned (Cripps, Krooz, Simmo) may have been an upgrade on Murph, they still leave us short, because none of them have the mongrel and the crossing-the-line dirtiness of Voss or Hodge.
Just on Cripps, I can see why he wasn't made Captain this year - he's young and his burden is heavy enough as it is. The club was right on this one IMO.
I was a fan of Simmo being made Captain.
Whilst one could argue that these guys mentioned (Cripps, Krooz, Simmo) may have been an upgrade on Murph, they still leave us short, because none of them have the mongrel and the crossing-the-line dirtiness of Voss or Hodge.
No but a vast difference between them and Murphy.
Captains are more than just 4 quarters on a saturday.
Simpson, Carrazzo or Murphy were our candidates at the time of Judds departure.
Dressing room politics dictates who the better captain is, not what they will do on a weekend.
This is why Nick Maxwell and Tom Harley made good captains.
This is why Marc Murphy may have been the best choice that our club had at the time, and why his tenure has been somewhat laboured, because our dressing room is anything but united.
Only Chris Judd could unite our dressing room, and even he could only manage it for 2 seasons.
Ok so Murphy is a better politician and that's why he was captain.
No wonder we are where we are
Just on Cripps, I can see why he wasn't made Captain this year - he's young and his burden is heavy enough as it is. The club was right on this one IMO.
He's hardly played yet, to lead a captain must know all the game plans and tactics intimately. So experience counts!
Over at Devils Island the fans used to ask the very same about Jones versus Viney, I suppose that is why they ended up with co-captains! ;)
There were six players in the side on Saturday who are not going to make the team better in the future, Wright, White, Thomas, Lamb, Kerridge & Simpson. All of whom give 100% week in. We had Cripps, Curnow and Byrne missing and I have high hopes for Kerr, McCreadie, Polson & Pickett. We need another five or six players on out list who can actually make the team better and not just guys who will do their jobs to the best of their abilities. In three more seasons we will know whether the Bolton approach has been successful. It is very painful at the moment.
Dangerfield gets one week!
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/patrick-dangerfield-handed-suspension-for-matthew-kreuzer-tackle-which-would-make-him-ineligible-for-2017-brownlow-medal/news-story/e62d1017d0020fcc5466369da415212c
Interesting if he gets the most votes does he get to present it to the winner?
Dangerfield gets one week!
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/patrick-dangerfield-handed-suspension-for-matthew-kreuzer-tackle-which-would-make-him-ineligible-for-2017-brownlow-medal/news-story/e62d1017d0020fcc5466369da415212c
Interesting if he gets the most votes does he get to present it to the winner?
There's talk about him appealing.
There's talk about him appealing.
Then he'll get 2 weeks.
There's talk about him appealing.
There is also talk that Linfox has been asked to make two low loaders available to help transport home Danger's and Scott's jowls!
Then he'll get 2 weeks.
Yes, assuming he doesn't get off.
I'll be very keen to see how the Cats go against the Swans and the Tiges if he gets rubbed out for both.
Is this a sign that the AFL is starting to see it's obligations to act in the greater good of the game?
There is also talk that Linfox has been asked to make two low loaders available to help transport home Danger's and Scott's jowls!
Despite the fact that your hyperbole tends to strain for effect a lot of the time, and loses effectiveness as a result, there are rare moments when it gives me a chuckle.
How does Scott look after commenting that Dangerfield's tackle was exactly how the coach teaches ...?? ::)
Ok so Murphy is a better politician and that's why he was captain.
No wonder we are where we are
Partially.
Partially because the club wanted him as captain. More marketable i believe.
IIRC, at the time Mick Malthouse was unhappy with that choice as he wanted either Carrazzo or Simpson but was overruled.
How does Scott look after commenting that Dangerfield's tackle was exactly how the coach teaches ...?? ::)
Like this!
(https://proxy.bigfooty.com/forum/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F13%2F10%2F03%2Feby6u6a2.jpg&hash=e47f5a9293a9897d13e1e5d03c3dc8b0)
or maybe this,
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1f/48/26/1f48266d546a1fca176a16bdcc5eba35.jpg)
Partially.
Partially because the club wanted him as captain. More marketable i believe.
IIRC, at the time Mick Malthouse was unhappy with that choice as he wanted either Carrazzo or Simpson but was overruled.
I would have liked Simmo myself but I heard that he can be rather brusque.
I would have liked Simmo myself but I heard that he can be rather brusque.
Maybe so, but the younger generation needs a bit of a foot up the behind.
Partially.
Partially because the club wanted him as captain. More marketable i believe.
IIRC, at the time Mick Malthouse was unhappy with that choice as he wanted either Carrazzo or Simpson but was overruled.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-21/malthouse-could-spring-skipper-surprise/4532312?section=afl
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-03-09/blue-rule
Make of all that what you will.
Maybe so, but the younger generation needs a bit of a foot up the behind.
I don't think it has anything to do with generations.
Some are self motivated greatly, some a bit, and many lazy as fark.
A good leader won't tolerate laziness and will stamp it out quickly
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=303.0
And just for a trip down memory lane.
Maybe so, but the younger generation needs a bit of a foot up the behind.
As I said, I like Simmo so that's OK by me. 8)
Richard Hinds has written a very good article outlining why there should be more concern about Kreuzer's concussion than Dangerfield's Brownlow hopes. I have posted an extract below:
... This should be apparent to those in the jockocracy who leapt to Dangerfield's defence. Surely, more than anyone, ex-players now appreciate the potential long-term consequences of the damage suffered by Kreuzer.
That should be apparent even to Geelong coach Chris Scott, who virtually demanded Dangerfield be cleared.
Although anyone who has regularly observed Scott and his twin, Brad, in the coach's box knows that what makes them identical is not their appearance. It is that neither has ever seen a justifiable free kick paid against their teams.
Most reprehensible were those who thought first of the impact of Dangerfield's potential suspension on the Brownlow Medal — and, even more ghastly, Brownlow Medal betting — than the precedent a "not guilty" finding would create ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-31/matthew-kreuzer-concussion-more-important-patrick-dangerfield/8758658?section=sport
The bleating on Geelong radio after the one match suspension was announced is unbearable >:(
And let's not forget the other favourite, Dusty, should have been scrubbed for what he did to Curnow imo.
Anyone got that match recorded?
Richard Hinds has written a very good article outlining why there should be more concern about Kreuzer's concussion than Dangerfield's Brownlow hopes. I have posted an extract below:
The bleating on Geelong radio after the one match suspension was announced is unbearable >:(
Wow great quote and so true.
It does take a bit of time to turn the talk around when the commentator was Ling tho
The radio callers have indeed been unbareble. One imbecile caller to SEN even had the gaul to have whinge and about it and somehow brought the fact that they have 7 home games at SS into the argument and that they were behind the 8 ball (or something utterly ridiculous like that). Seriously I know people are entitled to an opinion but if your not going to put up a credible, logical, rational argument, STFU. If this wasn't Dangerfield the gun or Dangerfield the Brownlow favourite, it would not even be worthy of being discussed. Everyone would have simply said "Yep, fair call, next". Instead, a load of rubbish excuses (mainly by Geel supporters). "He didnt sling", "He thought he had the ball" blah blah blah. All irrelevant, the correct decision was made. Watch this space though, I'm a sceptic and think that Geel will appeal and it will be successful (and staged). This way, the AFL hedges their bets and says "See? We found him guilty and suspended him but the appeal process worked and the Brownlow Favorite Geelong champion player Dangerfield is free to play".
Meanwhile, our AA Ruckman faces a week on the sidelines and no one give a flying feck cos its all about Bambifield and his feckin Brownlow. Feck the feckin Brownlow >:(.
Richard Hinds has written a very good article outlining why there should be more concern about Kreuzer's concussion than Dangerfield's Brownlow hopes. I have posted an extract below:
The bleating on Geelong radio after the one match suspension was announced is unbearable >:(
Absolutely... and in the print media. Imagine their bleating had Kreuzer done the same to Dangerfield and he'd been out for the remainder of the game!!! They'd be calling for 2-4 weeks. C0ckheads. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
Absolutely... and in the print media. Imagine their bleating had Kreuzer done the same to Dangerfield and he'd been out for the remainder of the game!!! They'd be calling for 2-4 weeks. C0ckheads. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
It makes me vomit.
I'll play devils advocate here.
Whilst it's unfortunate that Kreuzer was concussed, I am a firm believer in the outcome of an action not dictating whether or not that action is legal.
I thought that the tackle itself was ok, and that Kreuzer was more unlucky than anything else.
A week seems harsh to me. Particularly when you have blokes being punched and getting a fine as a result like cotchin.
I'll play devils advocate here.
Whilst it's unfortunate that Kreuzer was concussed, I am a firm believer in the outcome of an action not dictating whether or not that action is legal.
I thought that the tackle itself was ok, and that Kreuzer was more unlucky than anything else.
A week seems harsh to me. Particularly when you have blokes being punched and getting a fine as a result like cotchin.
I saw it differently Thry. Dangerfield pinned Kreuzer's arms so he couldn't protect himself, then smashed his head into the ground. It was deliberate and Dangerfield clearly intended to hurt Kreuzer and gain an advantage for his team. Two weeks would be a fair penalty, regardless of whether Kreuzer misses a week.
The research into repeated concussions has produced frightening results and the AFL must do more to stamp out tackles that are likely to cause head injuries.
Aye. the bloke knew exactly what he was doing and to suggest he didn't know the ball was long gone is simply laughable....
The pinning of arms is about prevention of disposal.
I saw plenty moaning about how our blokes don't do it, and tackle round the waist.
How easy would Kreuzer be to tackle at 200cm and roughly 100kg?
I'm guessing danger was just trying his hardest to bring him down let alone smash him into the turf head first.
And let's not forget the other favourite, Dusty, should have been scrubbed for what he did to Curnow imo.
Anyone got that match recorded?
No. Here's what i find really interesting. We've now had several opposition players rubbed out by the mrp. Yet the umpire on the day fails to award a 50m penalty, or free kick. In fact, it somehow results in an opposition goal (occasionally). Go figure. I'll admit, I'm as bias as the next person, but seriously there's been more of these to be a fluke :o
What screwed him over was Swann - Ratts wanted to go out and trade for tall forwards end of 2011 and Swann did not allow it and instead we draft Josh Bootsma and Sam Rowe
Provide a source... ????
The players don't care about individual honours - they all say it! It is surely obvious that it shouldn't matter who you are - if you do the wrong thing by the MRP, then you need to accept the penalty.
Only problem is that players do care about individual awards and the MRP is one of the more baffling things going round.
I am a little surprised that Danger had one week, however I'm just going to get splinters up the date from sitting on the fence on this one.
The pinning of arms is about prevention of disposal.
Dangerfield was on Kreuzer's left side during the tackle, the ball exited on the left side, there is no way Dangerfield didn't know the ball had left the scene. The tackle was about preventing Kreuzer from re-entering the contest and the sling was unnecessary. Also Dangerfield stuffed up, he lied to the media when he claimed he thought Kreuzer had the ball but he had both of Kreuzers wrists/forearms pinned by his side, what was Kreuzer holding the ball with his teeth?
The minute Dangerfield completed the tackle and Kreuzer hit his head he knew he was in potential trouble, he spun around and watched the replay rather than returning to the contest with the ball still in play.
Media types are arguing there was no free to Kreuzer as a Dangerfield defence, but the question can be flipped on it's head and we can ponder why Kreuzer wasn't awarded a free for Dangerfield hanging on!
I saw plenty moaning about how our blokes don't do it, and tackle round the waist
I think that is a extremist view, there are plenty of complaints about our blokes not sticking tackles or otherwise acting meekly failing to constrain arms. Nobody is seriously asking for our guys to sling players in tackle, it cost Gibbs weeks.
The sling is probably more dangerous than tunnelling, and it's just lucky a player hasn't been slung into an adjacent players knee causing horrific car crash type injuries.
How easy would Kreuzer be to tackle at 200cm and roughly 100kg?
I'm guessing danger was just trying his hardest to bring him down let alone smash him into the turf head first.
There is not that much difference between Kreuzer and Dangerfield, these are similarly sized and strength trained AFL professionals, it's not a kindergarten kid trying to tackle Cameron Munster!
Also the sling action by design is a levering action, it allows the tacklers force to be amplified by using their body mass and feet anchor point as a pivot.
Provide a source... ????
Ratts certainly wanted to target a tall forward at the end of 2011 - whether Swann interfered with that, I know not.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-18/blues-gutted-by-finals-exit/2904886
Ratts certainly wanted to target a tall forward at the end of 2011 - whether Swann interfered with that, I know not.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-18/blues-gutted-by-finals-exit/2904886
Sam Rowe was recruited as a key forward ... more blue collar than blue chip though.
Dangerfield was on Kreuzer's left side during the tackle, the ball exited on the left side, there is no way Dangerfield didn't know the ball had left the scene. The tackle was about preventing Kreuzer from re-entering the contest and the sling was unnecessary. Also Dangerfield stuffed up, he lied to the media when he claimed he thought Kreuzer had the ball but he had both of Kreuzers wrists/forearms pinned by his side, what was Kreuzer holding the ball with his teeth?
The minute Dangerfield completed the tackle and Kreuzer hit his head he knew he was in potential trouble, he spun around and watched the replay rather than returning to the contest with the ball still in play.
Media types are arguing there was no free to Kreuzer as a Dangerfield defence, but the question can be flipped on it's head and we can ponder why Kreuzer wasn't awarded a free for Dangerfield hanging on!
I think that is a extremist view, there are plenty of complaints about our blokes not sticking tackles or otherwise acting meekly failing to constrain arms. Nobody is seriously asking for our guys to sling players in tackle, it cost Gibbs weeks.
The sling is probably more dangerous than tunnelling, and it's just lucky a player hasn't been slung into an adjacent players knee causing horrific car crash type injuries.
There is not that much difference between Kreuzer and Dangerfield, these are similarly sized and strength trained AFL professionals, it's not a kindergarten kid trying to tackle Cameron Munster!
Also the sling action by design is a levering action, it allows the tacklers force to be amplified by using their body mass and feet anchor point as a pivot.
Danger is 188 and 91 kilos.
Kreuzer is 200 cm and 101 kilos.
Bringing down big blokes is not something that everyone can do easily, and whilst I get your point if you think that he was able to exert that amount of force, concentrate on holding onto his opponent, AND see what ELSE was happening around him (regarding the ball coming loose) then you have a higher estimation of what he can do. Lets not pretend that Danger is in peak phyical condition either, which means he was probably pushing through some sort of pain barrier himself, and his stats certainly would show that hes down on his usual output.
I dont like that one of our boys got hurt any more than anyone else but I see a certain level of hypocrisy in many people's comments here regarding these incidents.
Now that I have written the above, do not be surprised to see Geelong appeal, and for the suspension to get over turned at the tribunal because aside from Kreuzers medical report, the rest of it is line ball as to whether or not its a suspendable offense, and as far as Im concerned, if the umpires started paying holding the ball free kicks quicker, and balling things up sooner, they will do more to prevent these sort of tackles and rolling mauls than restriction of interchange or any other factor like that. If you go back to the 80's you will see that the umpires get involved before these massive packs form which is where most of it comes undone.
I don't see why there is an obsession with bringing the ball carrier crashing to the ground. If they're completely wrapped up and standing, the ball won't be coming out regardless, and the tackle is equally effective. Unless there are ulterior motives to the said crashing to the ground.
Geelong not challenging Danger's ban.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-01/geelongs-dangerfield-challenge-decision
Geelong not challenging Danger's ban.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-01/geelongs-dangerfield-challenge-decision
I was hoping that they would ... and he'd end up with 2 weeks off.
I guess from a team perspective, giving one of your key players a week off to refresh is a good thing. Two weeks is a different matter.
I was hoping that they would ... and he'd end up with 2 weeks off.
I guess from a team perspective, giving one of your key players a week off to refresh is a good thing. Two weeks is a different matter.
Yep, I was hoping the Pudding Faces would cut up and cry about the perceived unfair treatment and take it all the way to the tribunal winning Dangerfield an extra weeks break. Bartlett was actively encouraging the Handbaggers on SEN knowing full well they play Nthmond in two weeks.
The rumors behind the scenes are that because of his recent ankle he was borderline week to week and they were probably going to have to rest him anyway! But they are spinning it now that it's all about doing the right thing by the team!
I was waiting for the whole thing to go to appeal and then conveniently get dismissed. Pleased to see that all involved did the right thing and accepted the findings.
I was waiting for the whole thing to go to appeal and then conveniently get dismissed. Pleased to see that all involved did the right thing and accepted the findings.
I was sort of hoping for some more Pudding Face, I know I write that I'm sick of it but it also gives me a good laugh! ;D
Schadenfreude! :(
Whilst it's unfortunate that Kreuzer was concussed, I am a firm believer in the outcome of an action not dictating whether or not that action is legal.
So am i. but the afl is not....and thus the right result prevailed....for consistency
I was sort of hoping for some more Pudding Face, I know I write that I'm sick of it but it also gives me a good laugh! ;D
Schadenfreude! :(
I think its hilarious. The disbelief on the guys face is so incongruous with the play everyone else is watching. Cracks me up every time. I'm happy to get any giggles I can at this end of the season. Especially as the mighty Blues are reduced to a skeleton crew :-\
but he had both of Kreuzers wrists/forearms pinned by his side, what was Kreuzer holding the ball with his teeth?
This was this first thought that entered my mind. Danger had both arms well pinned, so if he believed Kreuzer still had the ball, which he really barely had had in any event, how was the big Special holding it....
It's a BS story, for sure imo.
No. Here's what i find really interesting. We've now had several opposition players rubbed out by the mrp. Yet the umpire on the day fails to award a 50m penalty, or free kick. In fact, it somehow results in an opposition goal (occasionally). Go figure. I'll admit, I'm as bias as the next person, but seriously there's been more of these to be a fluke :o
Lewis - Cripps, anyone?
I don't see why there is an obsession with bringing the ball carrier crashing to the ground. If they're completely wrapped up and standing, the ball won't be coming out regardless, and the tackle is equally effective. Unless there are ulterior motives to the said crashing to the ground.
This.
It's been an evolution linked to macho bullcrap from Sheedy and the 80's. Jezza was one of the best tacklers I have seen and when he wrapped a player up and pinned his arms he just set those big thighs like pylons which meant tackled player and ball was going nowhere.
Lots of commentators (esp. SEN) lamenting the fact that players have been taught to pin the arms while tackling - Robert Walls said it was a focus when they employed an ex-rugby tackling coach at the Brisbane Bears. Well guess what, I have a 'How to Play Aussie Rules' manual from the 1950's which demonstrates the right way and wrong way (with photos) to execute the skills. Right way to tackle is to bear hug the opposition and pin his arms. Player can't handball or kick, end of story.
Nowadays it's all about psychological ascendance and intimidation - i.e. slinging, driving into the ground, giving them an extra shove when you've already won the free, humiliating a la Cale Hooker on Daniel Neilsen, etc., etc.
This.
It's been an evolution linked to macho bullcrap from Sheedy and the 80's.
Sheedy is incredibly vindictive, he doesn't just want to defeat opponents, he wants to hurt them removing them from the game or even end their career.
One time Sheedy severely chastised David Hille after seeing Hille assist an opponent up off the ground. Hille thought that the player was seriously hurt after a collision, but coming to his aid did not wash as an excuse with Sheedy. The inference Hille took was that if an opponent was dying on the ground then Sheedy thought the team should use the number advantage to score a goal first, then call for help second!
I recall Hille's father, a life long CheatsFC supporter, hint to me that he lost all respect for Sheedy after that day!
But that is the way Sheedy played as well, those of us old enough know about the ankle taps, king hits and corkies that Sheedy would hand out with monotonous regularity!
This.
It's been an evolution linked to macho bullcrap from Sheedy and the 80's. Jezza was one of the best tacklers I have seen and when he wrapped a player up and pinned his arms he just set those big thighs like pylons which meant tackled player and ball was going nowhere.
Lots of commentators (esp. SEN) lamenting the fact that players have been taught to pin the arms while tackling - Robert Walls said it was a focus when they employed an ex-rugby tackling coach at the Brisbane Bears. Well guess what, I have a 'How to Play Aussie Rules' manual from the 1950's which demonstrates the right way and wrong way (with photos) to execute the skills. Right way to tackle is to bear hug the opposition and pin his arms. Player can't handball or kick, end of story.
Nowadays it's all about psychological ascendance and intimidation - i.e. slinging, driving into the ground, giving them an extra shove when you've already won the free, humiliating a la Cale Hooker on Daniel Neilsen, etc., etc.
Nice post Ivan. Notwithstanding all of that, I would have thought there is an advantage to the tackling team in being awarded a htb or illegal disposal free in the player is standing. It makes it clearer and easier to see what the ball carrier is intending, rather than bodies flying everywhere, players being slung every which way etc., which I think tends to put doubt in the umpires minds.
There are definitely those on here who feel that you can never have too much hurt and intimidation on a footy field. For those of us, er.., pussy cats, the jury is definitely out.
I much prefer the way the great Geelong teams from a few years ago went about it rather than the Lions 3peat teams, for example.
Sheedy is incredibly vindictive, he doesn't just want to defeat opponents, he wants to hurt them removing them from the game or even end their career.
One time Sheedy severely chastised David Hille after seeing Hille assist an opponent up off the ground. Hille thought that the player was seriously hurt after a collision, but coming to his aid did not wash as an excuse with Sheedy. The inference Hille took was that if an opponent was dying on the ground then Sheedy thought the team should use the number advantage to score a goal first, then call for help second!
I recall Hille's father, a life long CheatsFC supporter, hint to me that he lost all respect for Sheedy after that day!
But that is the way Sheedy played as well, those of us old enough know about the ankle taps, king hits and corkies that Sheedy would hand out with monotonous regularity!
I think Sheedy was a typical player from his era in this respect. Balme, Nicholls, Rob Walls, plenty of them could dish out thuggish acts. Clearly anything to do with Essendon puts you into hyperbolic overdrive - my guess is that plenty of other coaches would have had issues with the David Hille incident - Leigh Matthews, the Kray twins, Clarko just off the top of my head.
I think Sheedy was a typical player from his era in this respect. Balme, Nicholls, Rob Walls, plenty of them could dish out thuggish acts. Clearly anything to do with Essendon puts you into hyperbolic overdrive - my guess is that plenty of other coaches would have had issues with the David Hille incident - Leigh Matthews, the Kray twins, Clarko just off the top of my head.
Then is no hyperbole in the Hille story about Sheedy berating him, it's been written about before in the media, nobody denies it and I know his father personally.
Ratts certainly wanted to target a tall forward at the end of 2011 - whether Swann interfered with that, I know not.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-18/blues-gutted-by-finals-exit/2904886
Geez, we all wanted to target a tall forward... and we still do !!
We wanted a tall forward and we drafted one, Rowe.
The fact that he's functioned better in defense is irrelevant.
What other tall forwards were available around our picks ?
This BS of sheeting every (bad ????) trading/drafting decision home to one man or two, having some secret agenda to destroy the club or some such crap, has to stop kids.
If a list manager drafts the players he wants to the exclusion of the coaches preferred type of player, the team will go nowhere.