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Topic: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide (Read 38963 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #105 –
Quote from: Raydan on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
But Ray we've been through those drafts before and didn't really miss too much remembering they were compromised drafts, other than the obvious ones ie Darling. But that should have no bearing on our ability to run out games.

Yes they do have bearing. Watson should be holding down a key position, Lucas should be doing a Lions share of the ball carrying and Bootsma should also be contributing. Bring in those three plus the two we lost mid pre or mid season and we look fresher. Buckley even with his carry. The same people are being asked to run 15km per game every week with little relief. I know it's their job, but the good teams drafted well and bought the younger players in with talent.

We have bought in three first year players this year and if anything the others have had to work harder to "look after them".

As Mick has stated we have NO DEPTH and that is because of the lost three year in the draft.

All picks between 10-20 should be 150 gamers if you get your recruiting right.

Sure they were compromised drafts but these guys were still rated the 20th and under best players that year, even with GC and GWS getting many picks.

You cannot tell me that the year Watson was chosen we didn't get a single player capable of having a successful AFL career?

Ask Lucas how being such a low pick has effected Nate Fyfe (20), Lewis Jetta (14), Daniel Talia (13), Jasper Pittard (15), Ryan Bastinac (21), Jake Carslile (24), Travis Colyer (26), Mitch Duncan (28) or Jack Guston (29). It was almost harder to miss a 150 gamer than get one.

2009, 2010, 2011 drafts are the reason we are suffering at the moment through lack of depth and quality.

Absolutely, irrefutably correct. We are now paying for the abject failure of this appalling recruiting period in terms of being exposed for having 'no depth'. Had we even achieved a 35-40% success rate from those years we'd be at least 5 or so blokes better off. From that horrible period we only have Meat (and only just), Tuohy and Rowe who are regulars. During this period we recruited 20+ blokes and have barely a 10% success. Howling failures (a few of which were our big KPP hopes - including Watson), to name just a few, include - Lucas, Davies, Tiller, Kerr, Donaldson, McCarthy, Mitchell, McInnes, Carter, Bray, Lodge, Hill, Stanton etcetera!

We have to factor this reality into our disappointment. We're still paying for the sins of the past. Another good recruiting year this year and next, and our progress will at least be competitive... and from there, who knows. I fully expect us to be better next year, much better. And if we're not... then I would expect the guts to be ripped out of the coaching dept. The current coaching group, IMHO, have next year to prove themselves. A couple should go this year, if for no other reason than to inject some youthful passion into the group.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #106 –
It just seems that every time we start to think "we've turned the corner", the players think they've "turned the corner" and (call it what you like)...."get ahead of themselves" ...and lose that notion that they still have to work just as hard for a win.

When it started to go a bit pear shaped on Friday there seemed to me the impression that it was all a bit hard to maintain the effort.

A smart committed side might not have won, or even got close....but they could surely have lessened the size of the defeat.

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #107 –
Correct, there is no doubting the talent of Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Carrazzo, Waite, Yarran, Simpson et al. There was definitely doubt in their commitment to the cause on Friday. Someone gave Gibbs 8 votes FFS! I thought Gibbs set the bar very low in his first few attempts to win the pill. I don't buy into the drafting excuses, they certainly didn't hold us back the previous four weeks. It's too easy to go back there every time we have a poor performance. That's not the problem. Time to move forward.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!
 

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #108 –
Quote from: Lods on
It just seems that every time we start to think "we've turned the corner", the players think they've "turned the corner" and (call it what you like)...."get ahead of themselves" ...and lose that notion that they still have to work just as hard for a win.

When it started to go a bit pear shaped on Friday there seemed to me the impression that it was all a bit hard to maintain the effort.

A smart committed side might not have won, or even got close....but they could surely have lessened the size of the defeat.

The Hawks are a classic example of what to do when things are not going your way at half time in a footy match. The approach to the work rate. Ignore their skills.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #109 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Do we attribute the loss of Daisy's leadership to the blow-out and cue in rack?

Yes hasn't been in rampant form, but I reckon players like him can help drive a teams endeavour when it starts to get flat.

Daisy would have been exposed just like every other player. I am yet to see any acts of leadership that stand out from him (ie Murphy running back to take mark, Gibbs kicking big goals late in games, Carrazzo turning the game vs Selwood). What he is doing behind closed doors I can't judge him on but going by his form this year he would have been swallowed up and spat out.

Maybe, maybe not. 

I know you are not a fan, but I think he has given us more value than you do.

I think Thomas could have a bigger impact in helping us keep our structures and also the workrate.  Stuff like that can be infectious where everyone lifts the workrate and pressure accordingly because there is someone helping. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #110 –
Personally, I think football is a team game, one average player does not make the difference in a 100+ point hiding. Of course you can always cling to the possibility of that happening which is pretty much what your postings and theories rely on so that's fine, we're all entitled to an opinion. ;)
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #111 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Personally, I think football is a team game, one average player does not make the difference in a 100+ point hiding. Of course you can always cling to the possibility of that happening which is pretty much what your postings and theories rely on so that's fine, we're all entitled to an opinion. ;)

Yes, it is a team game, but it is a team game that relies heavily, very heavily, on leadership. Effective on-field leadership.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #112 –
Quote from: Baggers on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Personally, I think football is a team game, one average player does not make the difference in a 100+ point hiding. Of course you can always cling to the possibility of that happening which is pretty much what your postings and theories rely on so that's fine, we're all entitled to an opinion. ;)

Yes, it is a team game, but it is a team game that relies heavily, very heavily, on leadership. Effective on-field leadership.

For sure Baggers but from my perspective, at least with regards to onfield performance, our best leaders were out there and we got spanked. Pretty sure Daisy was out there when the Scum belted us too wasn't he as well as the loss to Melbourne? To suggest that he would have made the difference is drawing an extremely long bow. Not impossible as I said but highly improbable. I would say we've really picked up since Judd and Carrazzo have returned and Murphy has stepped up. Judd and Carrazzo were very poor and Murphy was poor until he went off. That was the issue IMO.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #113 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Personally, I think football is a team game, one average player does not make the difference in a 100+ point hiding. Of course you can always cling to the possibility of that happening which is pretty much what your postings and theories rely on so that's fine, we're all entitled to an opinion. ;)

On field leaders dont just inspire via acts.  They actually "direct traffic" by getting guys into positions to be dangerous or prevent a contest in a part of the ground that will result in a scoring opportunity and other times they put themselves in positions to "plug holes" in structures.  This in turn prevents a 100+ point hiding and although I agree one player wont necessarily make a world of difference, sometimes they can be pretty important and prevent the message from blurring on field.  People stay focussed on the task, people remain composed with the ball rather than blazing away to a long target (and consequentially a turnover) and people fly the flag. 

The irony is, that we are actually agreeing again and you didnt even realise.  How many below average performers would Daisy have been able to replace and impact that 100+ point loss?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #114 –
No we are not agreeing at all. I do not believe Daisy would have made any difference. This is the comment of yours I was addressing. Your comments are based on nothing more than assumption and guesswork, which you're entitled to make, but I totally disagree.

I think you overrate his (Daisy's) leadership in order to justify his poor performances in comparison to his salary. You've mentioned before that you tend to go against what I think because I annoy you. I think you've gone down this method of assumption for that very reason. I think Daisy has been a big flop and you're looking for some way to contradict that.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #115 –
@PI2C

Carrots, you are dead right when you say we have some good core talent on our list. Our top players are pretty good without doubt. The problem is that there is a a significant amount of daylight between them and the rest of the group. That's where our problems lie IMO. It's all very well having good leadership, in fact it's essential, but if your foot soldiers are are not up to it then it makes it very difficult to achieve the desired level of team performance consistently.

Also, leaders are only human too and if they can't get the troops to perform well, then they will also have their off days.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #116 –
The leadership argument makes no sense when you consider we have been flogged before, quite often, or put in miserable performances with Thomas in the squad. He was also evicted from the leadership group at Collingwood which says much about his leadership IMO.

Fact is if he wasn't a high price trade in and was with Carlton the last 2 years, he'd be making appearances on Sheik's sacked lists and most would be making a case to ship him off for a 2nd rounder.

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #117 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: Baggers on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Personally, I think football is a team game, one average player does not make the difference in a 100+ point hiding. Of course you can always cling to the possibility of that happening which is pretty much what your postings and theories rely on so that's fine, we're all entitled to an opinion. ;)

Yes, it is a team game, but it is a team game that relies heavily, very heavily, on leadership. Effective on-field leadership.

For sure Baggers but from my perspective, at least with regards to onfield performance, our best leaders were out there and we got spanked. Pretty sure Daisy was out there when the Scum belted us too wasn't he as well as the loss to Melbourne? To suggest that he would have made the difference is drawing an extremely long bow. Not impossible as I said but highly improbable. I would say we've really picked up since Judd and Carrazzo have returned and Murphy has stepped up. Judd and Carrazzo were very poor and Murphy was poor until he went off. That was the issue IMO.

A difference, not THE difference.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #118 –
Quote from: Mantis on
Quote from: Lods on
It just seems that every time we start to think "we've turned the corner", the players think they've "turned the corner" and (call it what you like)...."get ahead of themselves" ...and lose that notion that they still have to work just as hard for a win.

When it started to go a bit pear shaped on Friday there seemed to me the impression that it was all a bit hard to maintain the effort.

A smart committed side might not have won, or even got close....but they could surely have lessened the size of the defeat.

The Hawks are a classic example of what to do when things are not going your way at half time in a footy match. The approach to the work rate. Ignore their skills.

Absolutely. Did you see Roughead's tackle on Selwood in the third quarter?  Fair, but full of intent and mongrel, and I'm sure no coincidence that it was effected upon Selwood. They are the sorts of "rallying cries" that we are sadly lacking. Who could have/would have done that for us?  Robinson and Bell are willing but don't have the finesse.
Keyboard warrior #24601

Re: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #119 –
One or two leaders can make a difference to the whole team. Kernahan and Williams didn't play in our two losses in 1995. Brazil's defence was in tatters without Thiago Silva against Germany. We had a lot of experience missing on Friday night and Port played as good as any side I've seen this year.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!