just watched the jumper presentations to "the plow" and "hot sumner". Geoff Southby to the plow, Collo to Sumner,
Why is Ian Collins presenting jumpers.
Why is Ian Collins presenting jumpers.
He's a former premiership player. 1968. Played 149 games. Imagine that's the reason.
Why is Ian Collins presenting jumpers.
Ian Collins wore number 19 and presented it to Sumner.
Geoff Southby wore number 20 and presented it to Lachie Plowman.
Why is Ian Collins presenting jumpers.
Strange club.
I wouldn't let him in the door.
He's a former premiership player. 1968. Played 149 games. Imagine that's the reason.
He used the club to further his career when it was on it's knees. Promised the world, got what he wanted and moved on. Didn't even bother to show up to the handover. He's as un-Carlton as you can get. A walking dogs act if you will.
@CIMM
Could not agree more.
He used the club to further his career when it was on it's knees. Promised the world, got what he wanted and moved on. Didn't even bother to show up to the handover. He's as un-Carlton as you can get. A walking dogs act if you will.
@CIMM
Could not agree more.
Yes, there's that too.
Why is Ian Collins presenting jumpers.
Because collo is a premiership player, brilliant carlton administrator and former president. ...if trigg and the judge had any sense they should be chewing his ear getting up to speed with carlton and how to run the club properly...
He used the club to further his career when it was on it's knees. Promised the world, got what he wanted and moved on. Didn't even bother to show up to the handover. He's as un-Carlton as you can get. A walking dogs act if you will.
@CIMM
Could not agree more.
You must think john elliott should still be president
You must think john elliott should still be president
Probably not given how it ended and how he left our club but we did play in 5 Grand Finals during his era for 2 flags. I'd take that.Led the club brilliantly for a decade or more, fk'ed it up big time at the end.
Probably not given how it ended and how he left our club but we did play in 5 Grand Finals during his era for 2 flags. I'd take that.Led the club brilliantly for a decade or more, fk'ed it up big time at the end.
Collo kicked out elliott who had to be removed. For that collo saved carlton. ..we were insolvent under elliott and mathieson wanted to hand the keys back to wipe off the debt but collo sent us to etihad for the cash we needed to stay solvent..collo told the players to take a pay.cut to save the club....note.pratt was no where to be seen during this point. ..
Collo kicked out elliott who had to be removed. For that collo saved carlton. ..we were insolvent under elliott and mathieson wanted to hand the keys back to wipe off the debt but collo sent us to etihad for the cash we needed to stay solvent..collo told the players to take a pay.cut to save the club....note.pratt was no where to be seen during this point. ..
I tend to agree. Collo made the hard decisions that had to be made to save the club . . . and he was a tough premiership player. If Sumner is half as good as Collo he will be a good pick up.
I think that it is really good that the club is bringing back past greats to present jumpers. It was a nice touch for Robert Walls to slip a note into Tuohy's locker to congratulate him on getting his name painted on it.
I tend to agree too DJC.
Collo was one of the hardest players ever to pull on the navy blue jumper.
As a president he had some extremely hard decisions to make, and he is one of the main reasons we still have a football club today.
Good to see him back at the club.
Good to see Geoff Southby there too.
Collo kicked out elliott who had to be removed. For that collo saved carlton. ..we were insolvent under elliott and mathieson wanted to hand the keys back to wipe off the debt but collo sent us to etihad for the cash we needed to stay solvent..collo told the players to take a pay.cut to save the club....note.pratt was no where to be seen during this point.
How did he save us??? We are still forked remember and we are still at Etihad. The only people that disagree are those who loved him as a player. Take the bias out of it and he's a walking dogs act AFAIC.
I tend to agree. Collo made the hard decisions that had to be made to save the club . . . and he was a tough premiership player. If Sumner is half as good as Collo he will be a good pick up.
I think that it is really good that the club is bringing back past greats to present jumpers. It was a nice touch for Robert Walls to slip a note into Tuohy's locker to congratulate him on getting his name painted on it.
Agree DJC. I went to the SOC Lunch during the Ess NAB game at PP. Collo (along with Sticks) were walking around like rockstars. Only Big Nic commanded more respect in that room. Some of the crape written about the likes of Collo and Sticks is bewildering. They made decisions under extenuating circumstances which they thought were in the best interests of the CFC.
How did he save us??? We are still forked remember and we are still at Etihad. The only people that disagree are those who loved him as a player. Take the bias out of it and he's a walking dogs act AFAIC.
we were "forked" in your words by john elliott and his useless board and his NCA issues - he was cause of the collapse of carlton...not collo...
carlton must do more to thank collo as a great carlton man he was and still is...
i agree on Princes Park, as I never wanted to leave and want to return and develop PP to a 50K seater stadium, but on balance we had no choice, afl, media right games, ground rationalization - we were so insolvent, the home ground issue at the time was a secondary issue at the time- because of actions of mr john elliott...
again pratt was no where to be seen at this time...
Strange club.
I wouldn't let him in the door.
if it wasnt for collo, the doors would have been permanently closed.
we were "forked" in your words by john elliott and his useless board and his NCA issues - he was cause of the collapse of carlton...not collo...
carlton must do more to thank collo as a great carlton man he was and still is...
i agree on Princes Park, as I never wanted to leave and want to return and develop PP to a 50K seater stadium, but on balance we had no choice, afl, media right games, ground rationalization - we were so insolvent, the home ground issue at the time was a secondary issue at the time- because of actions of mr john elliott...
again pratt was no where to be seen at this time...
Forget Pratt, all he did was prop us up for a little, let's not forget he brought Greg Swann to the club, if you want to bag Elliot for what he did, Pratt was just as bad.
if it wasnt for collo, the doors would have been permanently closed.
Absolute bullshight. All he did was use the club to further himself.
Okay, wrong thread, I just realised this is the match thread, let's pollute somewhere else.
Agree DJC. I went to the SOC Lunch during the Ess NAB game at PP. Collo (along with Sticks) were walking around like rockstars. Only Big Nic commanded more respect in that room. Some of the crape written about the likes of Collo and Sticks is bewildering. They made decisions under extenuating circumstances which they thought were in the best interests of the CFC.
Fking bullshight, geez your ignorance and bias knows no bounds at times. You forgive these blokes but pay out on Carlton players that wanted to leave the club these blokes ruined with incompetence and ineptitude. Blokes that were forced out by tyrants these guys employed....but no, they are cleanskins in your eyes. Hard to take you seriously sometimes.*
*I mean that in the nicest possible way. ;D
Forget Pratt, all he did was prop us up for a little, let's not forget he brought Greg Swann to the club, if you want to bag Elliot for what he did, Pratt was just as bad.
i totally agree with you. pratt was not there in 2003, he brought swan in. Im no fan of pratt.
the fact that pratt annointed sticks as the interim president whilst pratt had his personal issues was the worst decision he made..other directors wanted the role from my understanding,
it was that decision that set the club back 20 years.
Absolute bullshight. All he did was use the club to further himself.
who kept the doors open from receivership - micky mouse?
who kept the doors open from receivership - micky mouse?
Anyone could have done that, he took advantage of his club when it was on it's knees, his family. And once he got what he wanted he happily bailed.
Anyone could have done that, he took advantage of his club when it was on it's knees, his family. And once he got what he wanted he happily bailed.
how did he take advantage?
how did he take advantage?
By signing us up to the then Colonial Stadium, who just happened to need more clubs, who he just happened to be CEO of, on a super shight deal. No doubt there was a nice bonus waiting for him upon the signing of that contract. He saw his opportunity with the club on it's knees and Elliot in an extremely weak position and just like the ruthless player he was, he took it. Did nothing to help the club whilst in charge, but he did manage to publicly call the list 'z-grade' players which was a lot of help. Did not even bother showing up to his handover (great respect for the club there). He is dirt in my eyes and always will be. All you that saw him play think differently, you probably have a soft spot for him. You know, human nature and all that.
By signing us up to the then Colonial Stadium, who just happened to need more clubs, who he just happened to be CEO of, on a super shight deal. No doubt there was a nice bonus waiting for him upon the signing of that contract. He saw his opportunity with the club on it's knees and Elliot in an extremely weak position and just like the ruthless player he was, he took it. Did nothing to help the club whilst in charge, but he did manage to publicly call the list 'z-grade' players which was a lot of help. Did not even bother showing up to his handover (great respect for the club there). He is dirt in my eyes and always will be. All you that saw him play think differently, you probably have a soft spot for him. You know, human nature and all that.
I'm with you Carrots, he is stain on the club's history. >:(
Because collo is a premiership player, brilliant carlton administrator and former president. ...if trigg and the judge had any sense they should be chewing his ear getting up to speed with carlton and how to run the club properly...
Oh my a "brilliant Carlton administrator"?
How brilliant was it to agree to working with the AFL with the salary cap charges for a lenient sentence, then get bent over with no lube. 2 years out of the first two rounds of the draft, we got Walker due to the poor wording of the penalties, something the AFL tried to stop. I forget the fine, but it was huge for the time and more than the Essendon fine when adjusted for time. This was then said years later to be too harsh a penalty by none other that Vlad himself.
He took Carlton away from home to an ground that did not suit our game and a poor return when we had strong ties to the MCG, tried to run the football department on a shoestring budget and blamed the players for being greedy expecting to be paid what the club agreed to. Then he resigned Pagan when the football world could see he wasn't the coach for Carlton.
Say what you want about Essendon, but they fought the fight to stand up for their club, Collins just whimpered us into penalties that would stuff Carlton up for 15 years.
So that leaves him as a premiership player and former president, I wonder if there are any more around who we could ask how to run the club, maybe if they were a former captain that would help too?
That being said I have no problem with Premiership players who wore a number presenting it to a new player, especially when they speak about pride in the jumper, however I believed Southby more.
Fking bullshight, geez your ignorance and bias knows no bounds at times.
Takes one to know one. :P
But on this subject i 100% agree with you.
Part of the reason we were so far 'in the poo' was because Collo wrote of the legends stand and that meant instead of having this big asset, we were left with nothing more than a useless slab of concrete. We ended up paying out millions to cover that, putting us in debt.
Now we were short on cash, so what did he do? He sold out. He sold us out of our home for a measly $1mil. At the same time lining his own pockets as no doubt he get some kickbacks being the numero uno in charge of Etihad at the time.
So we get signed up for a long term etihad deal that, incidentally, would end up costing us more than 1mil a year in lost revenue!
Sure, we were in a very tough position when he took over, but he made out it was worse than it really was. Then by his own calls, put us in a far worse position than he even made out to begin with.
On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being fitzroy type trouble.
Under Elliot - maybe a 6.5
When Collo took over he said it was, maybe a 8 (even though it was a 6.5)
After Collo 'worked his magic' it turned into a 9!
Just because we were stuffed when Collo took over, doesn't mean he didn't stuff us up more!
I couldn't disagree more with some of the things posted below, but I think the club has moved on from this... it's ancient history now, I'm more concerned with what happens going forward.
Time to build a bridge and get over whatever you think happened 10-15 years ago. It really doesn't have any impact on where we are now, or what we need to do to get back.
I was at the Carlton In Business function yesterday... 800 people, 70- odd businesses involved, they announced a significant donation from Fraser Brown, Bolton and Murphy spoke well... just think the club is working hard to get better, and everyone knows we have a big job in front of us.
Like most topics...too much "black and white" opinion.
Yep... You can make an argument for a poor performance as President, although we played the salary cap stuff in a morally correct manner.
When you do the wrong thing you take it on the chin. You don't delay, cloud the issue and run off to courts to win on technicalities.
I much prefer the Carlton approach to the Essendon one.
Our delay in improvement wasn't because of decisions made at the time of the cap penalties.
As for his previous efforts.
Very good player. (premiership player, hall of famer)
Outstanding (yep brilliant administator, secretary-manager (recruiter)
(http://www.blueseum.org/show_image.php?id=4638&scalesize=0&nocount=y)
http://australian-rules-football.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Motley
Motley decided to compete with his close friend Bradley with Carlton. Carlton would have arguably the best recruiting campaign in professional football after Ian Collins (Carlton Recruiting Manager) would secure Motley, Bradley, long time target Stephen Kernahan and Western Australian Jon Dorotich.
- Kernahan, Bradley, Motley Dorotitch Williams.
-3 premierships under his watch
By all means criticise him for the things he's done wrong... but give it a little balance.
Our history may have been very different without the efforts of Ian Collins as CEO during the1980s
It's not that he did something wrong or made a wrong choice lods, mistakes can be forgiven. But to manipulate the poor place the club was in at the time to better himself? Unforgivable, no matter what he'd done in the past.
Fking bullshight, geez your ignorance and bias knows no bounds at times. You forgive these blokes but pay out on Carlton players that wanted to leave the club these blokes ruined with incompetence and ineptitude. Blokes that were forced out by tyrants these guys employed....but no, they are cleanskins in your eyes. Hard to take you seriously sometimes.*
*I mean that in the nicest possible way. ;D
Its good to see you got the point of my post. ::)
Like most topics...too much "black and white" opinion.
Yep... You can make an argument for a poor performance as President, although we played the salary cap stuff in a morally correct manner.
When you do the wrong thing you take it on the chin. You don't delay, cloud the issue and run off to courts to win on technicalities.
I much prefer the Carlton approach to the Essendon one.
Our delay in improvement wasn't because of decisions made at the time of the cap penalties.
As for his previous efforts.
Very good player. (premiership player, hall of famer)
Outstanding (yep brilliant administator, secretary-manager (recruiter)
(http://www.blueseum.org/show_image.php?id=4638&scalesize=0&nocount=y)
http://australian-rules-football.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Motley
- Kernahan, Bradley, Motley Dorotitch Williams.
-3 premierships under his watch
By all means criticise him for the things he's done wrong... but give it a little balance.
Our history may have been very different without the efforts of Ian Collins as CEO during the1980s
Is it time to point out that Collo was in fact in charge when some of the brown paper bags were organised and distributed?
After leaving Carlton he went to work for the AFL. To engratiate himself with the AFL and show no allegiance to his former club, he pointed the finger at us and pointed out that we cheating the cap. How did he know? He set it up!
In any event, the point about Collins is this.
When someone presents you with your jumper you are supposed to be humbled, thrilled and look up to the person and one day hopefully emulate what they have been able to achieve.
Do we expect the kids to be able to distinguish 'collo the player', from 'collo the administrator' or even president?
Its like telling the kids to look up to fev. Sure, on the field he was (usually) very good. However, off field he was not what you'd call a role model over his career.
I'd be interested to hear Collo's version one day of the conversations that transpired between he and Jackson/Evans/Demitriou back in 01/02. I seldom wish harm on anyone but I would not be sad to learn that Wayne Jackson has been inflicted with a massive infestation of air breathing piranha to his little nether region!
Collins sold us down the river and dressed it up as "saving the club" later.
I cant forgive Collins ether, shafted the club over the salary cap rort which he helped organise then did some nest feathering at our expense and we wind up at his new home at Etihad....
I'd be a bit embarrassed to be presenting jumpers after those achievements....I know some can forgive and move on and remember his other football achievements but
this is the club who gave him a start and helped him progress in the world.....likewise I have little time also for Mike Fitzpatrick and his admin career at the AFL , the old saying of when you lay with swine you end up smelling like a pig is so true when applied to Collins and Fitzpatrick...
we were "forked" in your words by john elliott and his useless board and his NCA issues - he was cause of the collapse of carlton...not collo...
carlton must do more to thank collo as a great carlton man he was and still is...
i agree on Princes Park, as I never wanted to leave and want to return and develop PP to a 50K seater stadium, but on balance we had no choice, afl, media right games, ground rationalization - we were so insolvent, the home ground issue at the time was a secondary issue at the time- because of actions of mr john elliott...
again pratt was no where to be seen at this time...
Thats BS. When Pratt became president and was asked what took you so long, he answered simply " i was never asked"
with so many jewish people involved in the club, going to Pratt would unequivocally deem them as failures among their community.
They only went to pratt in an absolute crisis. If they went to him earlier, much earlier, things would have been different.
Pratts only condition becoming president was the unanimous support of the board, which he had.
By signing us up to the then Colonial Stadium, who just happened to need more clubs, who he just happened to be CEO of, on a super shight deal. No doubt there was a nice bonus waiting for him upon the signing of that contract. He saw his opportunity with the club on it's knees and Elliot in an extremely weak position and just like the ruthless player he was, he took it. Did nothing to help the club whilst in charge, but he did manage to publicly call the list 'z-grade' players which was a lot of help. Did not even bother showing up to his handover (great respect for the club there). He is dirt in my eyes and always will be. All you that saw him play think differently, you probably have a soft spot for him. You know, human nature and all that.
Well said Carrots. Couldn't agree more.
We are all posting about the same basic thing, it's called conflict of interest! ;)
Is it time to point out that Collo was in fact in charge when some of the brown paper bags were organised and distributed?
After leaving Carlton he went to work for the AFL. To engratiate himself with the AFL and show no allegiance to his former club, he pointed the finger at us and pointed out that we cheating the cap. How did he know? He set it up!
In any event, the point about Collins is this.
When someone presents you with your jumper you are supposed to be humbled, thrilled and look up to the person and one day hopefully emulate what they have been able to achieve.
Do we expect the kids to be able to distinguish 'collo the player', from 'collo the administrator' or even president?
Its like telling the kids to look up to fev. Sure, on the field he was (usually) very good. However, off field he was not what you'd call a role model over his career.
I don't know of any other 100 game number 19s who would be available to present the jumper. Eddie is otherwise occupied and (I think) John O'Connell passed away.
I don't know of any other 100 game number 19s who would be available to present the jumper. Eddie is otherwise occupied and (I think) John O'Connell passed away.
I have no problem with Collins presenting a jumper or being around the club.
We must divorce our opinions about administrative and governance issues which affect Carlton from the on-field playing history.
There are a lot of players, past greats, who have not necessarily acted in the Carlton's best interest off the field. If we don't separate their off-field from their on-field history then potentially blokes like SOS, Brown, Jesaulenko, Sheldon, Harris, Harmes, Austin, Fitzpatrick, Williams, etc., etc., would all be unwelcome back at Carlton. Which would clearly be wrong if it was the case.
I don't know of any other 100 game number 19s who would be available to present the jumper. Eddie is otherwise occupied and (I think) John O'Connell passed away.
Who presented Wright with his #46 guerney? We have no 100 game players in the 46 or premiership players
Doesn't have to be a 100 game player, premiership player or even someone who wore the same number!
I'm sure those things are nice to do in the right circumstances, but you can make exceptions.
Thats BS. When Pratt became president and was asked what took you so long, he answered simply " i was never asked"
with so many jewish people involved in the club, going to Pratt would unequivocally deem them as failures among their community.
They only went to pratt in an absolute crisis. If they went to him earlier, much earlier, things would have been different.
Pratts only condition becoming president was the unanimous support of the board, which he had.
With Board matters, there is not enough information on the records but word of mouth,
My word of mouth is Pratt couldn't remove some directors and that was a fact.
Ask youself wh
y Pratt did not take on the destructive elliott and take the Presidency- but 5 years after Elliott was pushed out by Collo?
In 1981 Collo was appointed Secretary-Manager of the Carlton Football Club, a position he filled with distinction for twelve years. In this time the Blues won three more flags. In 1993 he became the AFL Director of Football Operations, and in 1999 was appointed CEO of Stadium Operations Ltd, responsible for the AFL's showpiece Docklands Stadium. He was elected to the Carlton Hall of Fame in 2001, and awarded an Order of Australia for his service to the game.
In 2002 Collo
returned to Princes Park as President, heading a reform group that successfully ousted the administration of high-profile incumbent John Elliott. Collins had spent much of his time as Secretary under Elliott's tenure, but there was no love lost when Carlton under Elliott was found guilty of serious breaches of the AFL's salary cap regulations. The Blues were fined heavily and denied access to the best young players in the country for three years. It was a savage blow that plummeted Carlton to the lowest point in our history, and two wooden spoons in three years resulted.
Throughout this dark and bitter time, Collins and his board worked hard to limit the damage to Carlton's profile, prestige and financial position. Despite health scares brought on by the pressures of juggling two demanding jobs, Collo led the club through some of its darkest hours until he stepped down from the Presidency in April 2006, and was replaced by Graham Smorgon.
So Collo already had another role and came back to get rid of elliott. Why ? because no one had the courage to directly take on a bloke who was wrecking the club.
so those posters that punish collo - effectively wanted Elliott to stay, because no one - i repeat no-one was prepared to take on the destructive elliott and remove him, including Pratt
so posters that say - Collo was feathering his own nest is talking BS themselves.
Who presented Wright with his #46 guerney? We have no 100 game players in the 46 or premiership players
Doesn't have to be a 100 game player, premiership player or even someone who wore the same number!
I'm sure those things are nice to do in the right circumstances, but you can make exceptions.
The coach did, actually.
Oh my a "brilliant Carlton administrator"?
How brilliant was it to agree to working with the AFL with the salary cap charges for a lenient sentence, then get bent over with no lube. 2 years out of the first two rounds of the draft, we got Walker due to the poor wording of the penalties, something the AFL tried to stop. I forget the fine, but it was huge for the time and more than the Essendon fine when adjusted for time. This was then said years later to be too harsh a penalty by none other that Vlad himself.
When Vlad, Ron Evans and co were holding the whip hand - we had no power. You cannot blame collo for the punishment
My only criticism of Carlton then is that they should have went to court and killed the penalties - but we had no money
He took Carlton away from home to an ground that did not suit our game and a poor return when we had strong ties to the MCG, tried to run the football department on a shoestring budget and blamed the players for being greedy expecting to be paid what the club agreed to. Then he resigned Pagan when the football world could see he wasn't the coach for Carlton.
the afl controlled the situation and sent us to Etihad - we had no say because we were insolvent
Say what you want about Essendon, but they fought the fight to stand up for their club, Collins just whimpered us into penalties that would stuff Carlton up for 15 years.
agree with you there. Hindsight a wonderful thing
So that leaves him as a premiership player and former president, I wonder if there are any more around who we could ask how to run the club, maybe if they were a former captain that would help too?
That being said I have no problem with Premiership players who wore a number presenting it to a new player, especially when they speak about pride in the jumper, however I believed Southby more.
Collo was a great administrator when at Carlton before he was President if you know your history
I'd be interested to hear Collo's version one day of the conversations that transpired between he and Jackson/Evans/Demitriou back in 01/02. I seldom wish harm on anyone but I would not be sad to learn that Wayne Jackson has been inflicted with a massive infestation of air breathing piranha to his little nether region!
agree - i want someone to write the definitive story- we need the truth for the sake of our club as its an open wound still imo
Like most topics...too much "black and white" opinion.
Yep... You can make an argument for a poor performance as President, although we played the salary cap stuff in a morally correct manner.
When you do the wrong thing you take it on the chin. You don't delay, cloud the issue and run off to courts to win on technicalities.
I much prefer the Carlton approach to the Essendon one.
Our delay in improvement wasn't because of decisions made at the time of the cap penalties.
As for his previous efforts.
Very good player. (premiership player, hall of famer)
Outstanding (yep brilliant administator, secretary-manager (recruiter)
(http://www.blueseum.org/show_image.php?id=4638&scalesize=0&nocount=y)
http://australian-rules-football.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Motley
- Kernahan, Bradley, Motley Dorotitch Williams.
-3 premierships under his watch
By all means criticise him for the things he's done wrong... but give it a little balance.
Our history may have been very different without the efforts of Ian Collins as CEO during the1980s
totally agree Lods :)
agree - i want someone to write the definitive story- we need the truth for the sake of our club as its an open wound still imo
You're dreaming if you think a germ like Collins would come out and admit he bent the club over for a bonus.
You're dreaming if you think a germ like Collins would come out and admit he bent the club over for a bonus.
where is the ""bonus"'"on the record?
he removed himself from the board decision by the club to go to etihad did he not?
where is the ""bonus"'"on the record?
You do understand how the corporate world works don't you?
With Board matters, there is not enough information on the records but word of mouth,
My word of mouth is Pratt couldn't remove some directors and that was a fact.
Ask youself why Pratt did not take on the destructive elliott and take the Presidency- but 5 years after Elliott was pushed out by Collo?
In 1981 Collo was appointed Secretary-Manager of the Carlton Football Club, a position he filled with distinction for twelve years. In this time the Blues won three more flags. In 1993 he became the AFL Director of Football Operations, and in 1999 was appointed CEO of Stadium Operations Ltd, responsible for the AFL's showpiece Docklands Stadium. He was elected to the Carlton Hall of Fame in 2001, and awarded an Order of Australia for his service to the game.
In 2002 Collo returned to Princes Park as President, heading a reform group that successfully ousted the administration of high-profile incumbent John Elliott. Collins had spent much of his time as Secretary under Elliott's tenure, but there was no love lost when Carlton under Elliott was found guilty of serious breaches of the AFL's salary cap regulations. The Blues were fined heavily and denied access to the best young players in the country for three years. It was a savage blow that plummeted Carlton to the lowest point in our history, and two wooden spoons in three years resulted.
Throughout this dark and bitter time, Collins and his board worked hard to limit the damage to Carlton's profile, prestige and financial position. Despite health scares brought on by the pressures of juggling two demanding jobs, Collo led the club through some of its darkest hours until he stepped down from the Presidency in April 2006, and was replaced by Graham Smorgon.
So Collo already had another role and came back to get rid of elliott. Why ? because no one had the courage to directly take on a bloke who was wrecking the club.
so those posters that punish collo - effectively wanted Elliott to stay, because no one - i repeat no-one was prepared to take on the destructive elliott and remove him, including Pratt
so posters that say - Collo was feathering his own nest is talking BS themselves.
elliot wasnt pushed out by collo, the members did.
If you remember the losses around that time were so horrific, people were baying for elliots blood and got it
collo, the perennial bridesmaid, now becomes president.
Elliot in my view, was an antiquated administrator that refused to yield to the clubs position and act accordingly
Collins failure was , he didnt negotiate a better position for sanctions against some paper bags on the evidence of some hack from fremantle and forced admissions by another at the AFL.
These sanctions were from the AFL, worse than 34 players who systematically doped. Those sanctions, fkd the club for a decade.
The office of the president of the carlton football club was and is as prestigious then as it is now. Wanted by all and not necessarily for the right reasons.
So bad was the management of all in the last 15 years, they squandered the millions tipped in by the likes of pratt over the years. Pratt was a busy man. Too busy to worry
about the massive ego's of smorgon collins and elliot to stand.
He only stood when he was asked to do so by elliot and kernahan on a cap in hand visit to raheen with the keys of the club on the table.
if you're looking for an answer as to the real savior of the CFC , the 11th hour man who stood up and saved the club when it was on life support, when no one else saw life left in the club, It was Richard J Pratt and continued to be the Pratt family at the bequest of Richard long after.
There should be a 30ft high statue in honor of that man facing royal parade so no one ever forgets him or what he did for the CFC
if you're looking for an answer as to the real savior of the CFC , the 11th hour man who stood up and saved the club when it was on life support, when no one else saw life left in the club, It was Richard J Pratt and continued to be the Pratt family at the bequest of Richard long after.
There should be a 30ft high statue in honor of that man facing royal parade so no one ever forgets him or what he did for the CFC
He saved us no doubt but he too made some horrendous errors.
Mozzie, i'm not sure why i bother trying to explain this to you, this is more for others who may actually believe what you say.
With Board matters, there is not enough information on the records but word of mouth,
My word of mouth is Pratt couldn't remove some directors and that was a fact.
Ask youself why Pratt did not take on the destructive elliott and take the Presidency- but 5 years after Elliott was pushed out by Collo?
Why didn't anyone take on Elliot? You blame Pratt because he put his hand up after Collo dug is deeper in the hole that we couldn't get out of?
In 1981 Collo was appointed Secretary-Manager of the Carlton Football Club, a position he filled with distinction for twelve years. In this time the Blues won three more flags. In 1993 he became the AFL Director of Football Operations....
On wikipedia (yes, i know) there is a whole stack of salary cap breaches listed.
I find these 2 the most interesting in light of what you quoted above.
- Three clubs were fined for minor breaches in 1993: Melbourne ($13,450), Carlton ($9,750) and Footscray ($2,700).[7]
- In 1994, Carlton were fined $50,000 after it was found that they had exceeded the salary cap by $85,000 during the 1993 season.[8]
So yes, he was in charge. In doing so he would've set up things for a few years in advance (contracts run for more than 1 year) and are setup before the season starts - ie, while Collo was in charge.
He setup dodgy payments. Went to his new role at the AFL and pointed the finger straight back at us and got us fined.
Not only that, because of these prior breaches, when our 2001/2 salary cap breaches came out we got a bigger fine because we were 'serial offenders'.
So sure all hail collo, who has bent us over multiple times.
Fork me Collins is a dog of a bloke. He should have his name scrubbed off the locker.
You do understand how the corporate world works don't you?
Given that you support the price fixer pratt, I assume you do?
Mozzie, i'm not sure why i bother trying to explain this to you, this is more for others who may actually believe what you say.
Why didn't anyone take on Elliot? You blame Pratt because he put his hand up after Collo dug is deeper in the hole that we couldn't get out of?
On wikipedia (yes, i know) there is a whole stack of salary cap breaches listed.
I find these 2 the most interesting in light of what you quoted above.So yes, he was in charge. In doing so he would've set up things for a few years in advance (contracts run for more than 1 year) and are setup before the season starts - ie, while Collo was in charge.
He setup dodgy payments. Went to his new role at the AFL and pointed the finger straight back at us and got us fined.
Not only that, because of these prior breaches, when our 2001/2 salary cap breaches came out we got a bigger fine because we were 'serial offenders'.
So sure all hail collo, who has bent us over multiple times.
Collo didn't point the finger. He as president confessed to the salary cap breach by elliott
Collo didn't point the finger. He as president confessed to the salary cap breach by elliott
You are talking about the 2001/2 breaches. The one we got the 1mil fine, lost picks 1+2 etc.
I'm talking about before that. When he first left to the AFL.
Don't tell me you didn't know we got in trouble for something he setup and dobbed on us for.
You are talking about the 2001/2 breaches. The one we got the 1mil fine, lost picks 1+2 etc.
I'm talking about before that. When he first left to the AFL.
Don't tell me you didn't know we got in trouble for something he setup and dobbed on us for.
Elliot was president in 1993...not collins
What you say Kruds regarding 1994 may actually be the case.. do you have a link to show that's what happened (Collins dobbed) or is it an educated guess?
What do you do in that position?
It's a bit of a dilemma
You go to a new job.
You know that there is information that you have that could affect your old club.
Do you keep it concealed....If it comes to light down the track and you've kept it hidden you're out the door....sacked.
or
Do you go in and say "I know of a problem we have.....How do we fix it?"
Elliot was president in 1993...not collins
What is it that you think the secretary/manager does? He was in charge of the salaries. President ultimately signs off on it, but it was collos job
What you say Kruds regarding 1994 may actually be the case.. do you have a link to show that's what happened (Collins dobbed) or is it an educated guess?
I've read a few things about it. I can't remember everything, but no doubt there is something in John Elliots book about it.
Not sure if it is also from the same book, but i seem to recall that the salary cap breaches were so convulted and hard to track down that once it was finally revealed how we breached the cap, they gave Collo a standing ovation!
He was good at what he did, unfortunately what he did got us in trouble big time. :(
What you say Kruds regarding 1994 may actually be the case.. do you have a link to show that's what happened (Collins dobbed) or is it an educated guess?
What do you do in that position?
It's a bit of a dilemma
You go to a new job.
You know that there is information that you have that could affect your old club.
Do you keep it concealed....If it comes to light down the track and you've kept it hidden you're out the door....sacked.
or
Do you go in and say "I know of a problem we have.....How do we fix it?"
Hahaha you are dreaming if you think he was thinking of doing the best thing for someone other than himself. He is a self serving prick.
Hahaha you are dreaming if you think he was thinking of doing the best thing for someone other than himself. He is a self serving prick.
Two points....
Did it play out as Kruddler said?
I'd like to know.
If that's the case then that's exactly what I'm suggesting...he made a very wise personal career choice.
What is it that you think the secretary/manager does? He was in charge of the salaries. President ultimately signs off on it, but it was collos job
I recall Elliott saying he took care of a lot of the aspects of contracts. ;)
Two points....
Did it play out as Kruddler said?
I'd like to know.
If that's the case then that's exactly what I'm suggesting...he made a very wise personal career choice.
Yep, he dobbed us in for something he oversaw, for his own benefit. That's Ian Collins.
Tracked down this from John Elliotts book 'Big Jack: My sporting life'
"Collins, who had been CEO of Carlton up to the end of 1994, knew that in those days all sorts of payments were made outside the system - because he was making them. In 1993, Carltons salary cap figures were known only by Ian Collins.
But at the beginning of 1994, when Collins went to the AFL, the first thing he did was indentify that the Carlton Football Club had breached the salary cap by about $50,000, and fine us. I was absolutely incensed. He had given us no indication of a problem, he had finalised the numbers and nobody else knew them."
In answer to your question Lods...
"I can only surmise he wanted to demonstrate to his new employer that he was no longer looking after the Carlton Football Club."
Tracked down this from John Elliotts book 'Big Jack: My sporting life'
"Collins, who had been CEO of Carlton up to the end of 1994, knew that in those days all sorts of payments were made outside the system - because he was making them. In 1993, Carltons salary cap figures were known only by Ian Collins.
But at the beginning of 1994, when Collins went to the AFL, the first thing he did was indentify that the Carlton Football Club had breached the salary cap by about $50,000, and fine us. I was absolutely incensed. He had given us no indication of a problem, he had finalised the numbers and nobody else knew them."
In answer to your question Lods...
"I can only surmise he wanted to demonstrate to his new employer that he was no longer looking after the Carlton Football Club."
And hence well and truly looking after himself and his future. Only the blind would not see the trend here.
If that's the case then that's exactly what I'm suggesting...he made a very wise personal career choice.
Every personal career choice he made was a very big knife into the back of the Carlton Football Club. Which is why i have an issue with him presenting jumpers. You want people/players with honour and integrity presenting jumpers giving the recipient something to look up too. Collo is not that bloke.
And hence well and truly looking after himself and his future. Only the blind would not see the trend here.
There you have it..
John elliotts self serving diatribe book to justify the attack on collo.
Tracked down this from John Elliotts book 'Big Jack: My sporting life'
"Collins, who had been CEO of Carlton up to the end of 1994, knew that in those days all sorts of payments were made outside the system - because he was making them. In 1993, Carltons salary cap figures were known only by Ian Collins.
But at the beginning of 1994, when Collins went to the AFL, the first thing he did was indentify that the Carlton Football Club had breached the salary cap by about $50,000, and fine us. I was absolutely incensed. He had given us no indication of a problem, he had finalised the numbers and nobody else knew them."
In answer to your question Lods...
"I can only surmise he wanted to demonstrate to his new employer that he was no longer looking after the Carlton Football Club."
I'll accept that...but given the relationship between the two, the source is dubious at best.
Bottom line...If Collins is the demon he's painted why is he welcomed by so many at the club....he appeared in promotional material with club legends at the start of the season? ???
He's presenting jumpers????
I'll accept that...but given the relationship between the two, the source is dubious at best.
Bottom line...If Collins is the demon he's painted why is he welcomed by so many at the club....he appeared in promotional material with club legends at the start of the season?
Yes - some primary sources, eyewitnesses etc. are essential. This is a very important issue.
EDIT : Let's not forget that Elliott's word has been questioned before :
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/22/1061529335754.html
I'll accept that...but given the relationship between the two, the source is dubious at best.
Bottom line...If Collins is the demon he's painted why is he welcomed by so many at the club....he appeared in promotional material with club legends at the start of the season? ???
He's presenting jumpers????
I knew that you'd bring up the potentially frosty relationship and spent time trying to find a quote suggesting otherwise in the same book. But i've run out of time as the footy is starting.
I don't think Big Jack hates Collins as much as he has every right too.
I'll accept that...but given the relationship between the two, the source is dubious at best.
Bottom line...If Collins is the demon he's painted why is he welcomed by so many at the club....he appeared in promotional material with club legends at the start of the season? ???
He's presenting jumpers????
Our board are a bunch of idiots.
I don't think Big Jack hates Elliott as much as he has every right too.
That's the problem...He loves himself ;D
That's the problem...He loves himself ;D
Fixed
Our board are a bunch of idiots.
I know one bloke who'll agree with you ;)
I know one bloke who'll agree with you ;)
LOL. Well you certainly have to ask the question in this instance!
I'm switching on to the EPL now. Relegation battle betyween Sunderland and Norwich! ;D
I know one bloke who'll agree with you ;)
who? :P
LOL. Well you certainly have to ask the question in this instance!
I'm switching on to the EPL now. Relegation battle betyween Sunderland and Norwich! ;D
Sounds rivetting. ;)