There may be a few moments to go, but we are being pounded again. This time, it is by the bottom team. Former bottom team. We are a disaster.
Do your worst, people. After all, the players have already done their worst.
Mission accomplished!!
Anyone who thinks anything good will come of this is kidding themselves.
Winning is a mindset, it is learned behavior. We simply do not know how to win, or even how to compete. And no amount of tanking for picks will change that.
I'm all for getting that # 1 draft pick - but geez, did we have to do it so emphatically?
Feel sorry for the people who went up there for that.
Supporter killing.
We're not tanking ...we're just frightful
That wasn't a good look from Jamison not acknowledging Robinson....It's difficult to know the history but sometimes you have to be a bit bigger than that.
He's the one that will be painted as the bad guy
I hate this result. Bugger the bloody draft picks.
If the club was tanking to get a 1st pick they should all be sacked including the president. ....
A winning culture is not negotiable under any circumstance
We are heading for our 4th spoon in 12 years.
That said the current position of our club dictates that a full board spill is necessary
Well, that's put a dampener in our premiership chances!
We're not tanking ...we're just frightful
That wasn't a good look from Jamison not acknowledging Robinson....It's difficult to know the history but sometimes you have to be a bit bigger than that.
He's the one that will be painted as the bad guy
Yes looked very ugly for Jamo, lack of sportsmanship. They did tussle during the game, but looked liked Robbo was the bigger man tonight.
We're not tanking ...we're just frightful
That wasn't a good look from Jamison not acknowledging Robinson....It's difficult to know the history but sometimes you have to be a bit bigger than that.
He's the one that will be painted as the bad guy
Maybe. Don't know what was said.
Truly awful.
2 quarters without a goal against the bottom team (until now).
barker surely can't be given the job now.
SOS and Bolton have a lot of work ahead of them.
We had 6 guys who had less than 10 possessions. Brisbane had 2.
We had no players who got more than 30 possessions. They had 3.
Other than Walker's 4 goals and the brilliant display by Cripps: 16 time 1st possession from the centre and 12 clearances, there wasn't much else we got out of this.
Johnny Barker did himself a great deal of harm in his quest to be coach next year. In many ways this loss was worse than the one that lead to Malthouse's demise.
We don't have an option to tank, we are just bad , spiritless, lack of intensity, energy & passion. Confidence , is shot, had. 2 coaches this year and the players , beside a small honeymoon period didn't react to either of them . There will be many pink slips coming up I hope. They have really dented the brand tonight
Yes looked very ugly for Jamo, lack of sportsmanship. They did tussle during the game, but looked liked Robbo was the bigger man tonight.
Easy to be a good sport when you win (after getting in someone else's face)
We're not tanking ...we're just frightful
Frightful is putting it kindly Lods, we are as bad as when we finished bottom a decade ago and our future now is even bleaker.
To all those spruiking for the number one pick I'll remind them that we had three number one picks in four years, Walker at two and recruited Judd, and look where we are now.
It's hard to see us being competitive in under five years and membership and sponsorship will take a big hit, there's a generation of Carlton supporters now who only know us as failures.
I'm at the point of despair, in 50 years of following the Blues I've never been more pessimistic about our future.
Yarran and Menzel in the twos, Casboult(injured or rested).....playing, Ellard, Dick etc....we tanked IMO and had little interest in winning the game.
I want the first ND draft pick and the first PSD pick so I wont be complaining.....SOS has the tools now to get the job done at the draft/trade table and the rebuilding can start.
Forget about tonight and the next three weeks and dont expect any great effort from anyone except SOS and the recruiting dept who need to be getting down to business...
Easy to be a good sport when you win (after getting in someone else's face)
In the way Robbo went over to him, it just didn't look like he thought that that anything that had happened during the match was anything to grudge over.as it has been said , we don't know what was said, but the face said a lot
To all those spruiking for the number one pick I'll remind them that we had three number one picks in four years, Walker at two and recruited Judd, and look where we are now.
One is injured, one is retired, the other three were in our best handful :-\
We didn't put a support cast around them.
I see the club aiming for 6 top 10 picks over the next 3 years.
Somehow I don't think I will bother with the replay :( :-[ :'( :o
Absolutely can't have Barker as coach. We desperately need a new leader who is fresh to the Club, who has no previous or current connection with the playing group....someone who can come in and see the playing group as a blank canvas and with no bias can make whatever changes (working hand-in-hand with SoS) he deems necessary - no matter how hard they may seem to appear to be to the rest of us. If Barker was smart, he wouldn't have applied in the first place, as this particular coaching gig is not for him.
One is injured, one is retired, the other three were in our best handful :-\
We didn't put a support cast around them.
I see the club aiming for 6 top 10 picks over the next 3 years.
Agree....we are at rock bottom and need a total cleanout which means hitting the ND hard with top ten picks.....bottom 4 finishes for the next three years IMO while we assemble the next nucleus
of the list..
Absolutely can't have Barker as coach. We desperately need a new leader who is fresh to the Club, who has no previous or current connection with the playing group....someone who can come in and see the playing group as a blank canvas and with no bias can make whatever changes (working hand-in-hand with SoS) he deems necessary - no matter how hard they may seem to appear to be to the rest of us. If Barker was smart, he wouldn't have applied in the first place, as this particular coaching gig is not for him.
It will be interesting to see if he will be given an assistant's position next year.
The club may well have have a "gentlemen's agreement" in place, looking after Barker with money / employment etc. for taking a hit for the team.
In the way Robbo went over to him, it just didn't look like he thought that that anything that had happened during the match was anything to grudge over.as it has been said , we don't know what was said, but the face said a lot
Have to wonder why robbo was singling out Jammo too. The carlton players were all in a group and robbo walks past a few to specifically get to jammo who clearly didn't want a piece of him for some reason. Reckon robbo has said or done something to deserve this one.
One is injured, one is retired, the other three were in our best handful :-\
We didn't put a support cast around them.
I see the club aiming for 6 top 10 picks over the next 3 years.
three words
talia darling kennedy
Walker looked dangerous at times up forward. Would be a huge bonus if he came into some good form to boost his trade value.
Jamison is finished. He was always a one trick pony and now he's lost that trick.
At least Cripps did his Rising Star chances no harm......
Walker looked dangerous at times up forward. Would be a huge bonus if he came into some good form to boost his trade value.
Jamison is finished. He was always a one trick pony and now he's lost that trick.
Jamison should retire like 10 others and don't hit our salary cap. ...do the honorable thing....
One is injured, one is retired, the other three were in our best handful :-\
We didn't put a support cast around them.
I see the club aiming for 6 top 10 picks over the next 3 years.
When we had the three number one picks we also had the first pick of the second and third rounds, none of whom are still at the club.
Last year we traded pick 7 for Jaksch, four years ago we traded pick 21 or so for Warnock, our recruiting and list management has been the worst in the AFL by a country mile and how anyone can have confidence that it will all turn around is staggering.
Tonight's result was disastrous, there's no way it can be spun as positive.
SOS and Bolton have a lot of work ahead of them.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bolton wasn't on the phone with a "thanks but no thanks" call.
This job is bigger than Ben Hur and will be years in the making.
@B4L Exactly, we need all the no brainer picks we can get our hands on.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bolton wasn't on the phone with a "thanks but no thanks" call.
This job is bigger than Ben Hur and will be years in the making.
I reckon the Essendon job is the only job someone wouldn't jump at. A chance to return a former great club to glory, not a hell of a lot of expectation. St Kilda gig looked even worse than ours IMO and they have started to pick themselves up. Shouldn't have let that Richardson guy go.
Jamison should retire like 10 others and don't hit our salary cap. ...do the honorable thing....
If Henderson is traded we'll be running rather light on for tall defenders if Jamison goes too.
Weitering may be the next big thing but he probably won't be ready to take on big forwards in his first year.
If Henderson is traded we'll be running rather light on for tall defenders if Jamison goes too.
Weitering may be the next big thing but he probably won't be ready to take on big forwards in his first year.
I stand by my statement. ...hes useless
I wouldn't be surprised if Bolton wasn't on the phone with a "thanks but no thanks" call.
This job is bigger than Ben Hur and will be years in the making.
You may be right there.
Dew might be feeling pretty good with his career choices tonight.
Don't think so. Quite the opposite I think.
People say we haven't bottomed out yet. I think losing to the bottom side by 10 goals is bottoming out.
The only way is up.
Perfect for a new enthusiastic coach to come in.
Awful floggings like this are part of this whole process.
Its often darkest before the dawn as they say.
Get Bolton in with a fresh, modern game plan that the players buy into, nail the draft and trading period, and nobody will give a crap about tonight's game in 6 mths time
Lol at jamo refusing to shake Robbo's hand.
Holman being the sub seemed an odd decision to me. Hes one who has a fair dinkum crack and can use the ball.
I dont understand why Murph and Gibbs would be adverse to being traded. Reports suggest they want to stay.....my question is why?
Murph tried his guts out.....I'll give him that but his skills are so poor for a 1st round pick let alone a no 1 pick.
Gibbs has given us 1 good years service but for the most part has polarised us.
Fellas, do the right thing and do yourselves a favour........leave and give us an early pick in the draft.
Hendo and Yarran have screwed us. There trade value has absolutely plummetted.
Touhy, Rowe, Bell, and theres more who dont come to mind should be offloaded too.
Our nucleus is Cripps ( give him captaincy now) Buckley, Docherty, Casboult, Holman. Build around them cos if we're lucky, they might be young enough to be in our next premiership team.
Fwiw, id prefer Dew as coach over Bolton. I just dont see enough C**t in Bolton to be a senior coach.
I stand by my statement. ...hes useless
Agreed that he's past his best but the fact is in our current position both Jamison and Rowe are the best defenders we can put on the park in 2016 and they'll be necessary to support Weitering as he develops.
The only other options with our current list are Watson, jaksch, fields and maybe giles. Or maybe trialling jones at full back instead of Rowe.
We'll find it impossible to trade in good defender in (which kind of defeats the purpose of rebuilding anyway)so if we try to trade we'll be taking someone else's discards or second stringers.
The only other option is bringing in 3-4 mature players currently running around state leagues. Will they be any better?
Don't think so. Quite the opposite I think.
And in any case, if we nail the draft and trading period, nobody will give a crap about tonight's game in 6 mths time
Agree...this will be one of many beatings we have had for the year but this game and the next three are different as we position ourselves for the draft/trade period.
I wouldnt be judging the coach and some players on tonight or the nex three weeks...Barker has his instructions IMO and they might not be to everyone's liking.
Holman being the sub seemed an odd decision to me. Hes one who has a fair dinkum crack and can use the ball.
I dont understand why Murph and Gibbs would be adverse to being traded. Reports suggest they want to stay.....my question is why?
Murph tried his guts out.....I'll give him that but his skills are so poor for a 1st round pick let alone a no 1 pick.
Gibbs has given us 1 good years service but for the most part has polarised us.
Fellas, do the right thing and do yourselves a favour........leave and give us an early pick in the draft.
Hendo and Yarran have screwed us. There trade value has absolutely plummetted.
Touhy, Rowe, Bell, and theres more who dont come to mind should be offloaded too.
Our nucleus is Cripps ( give him captaincy now) Buckley, Docherty, Casboult, Holman. Build around them cos if we're lucky, they might be young enough to be in our next premiership team.
Fwiw, id prefer Dew as coach over Bolton. I just dont see enough C**t in Bolton to be a senior coach.
Not much "C" in Adam Simpson " or " Luke Beveridge" either but plenty of flair and innovation...
Don't think so. Quite the opposite I think.
And in any case, if we nail the draft and trading period, nobody will give a crap about tonight's game in 6 mths time
The problem is you have to have a base to build on.
You look at the side and you see the base is made up of Cripps, maybe Kreuzer and a few triers who wouldn't get a game with another side.
Our better players are our elder players and by the time we're good again they will be either gone or in the twilight of their careers.
Just to establish that base will take a couple of draft/trade periods....it's achievable, but not short term
You r all looking incorrectly at narrow issues of players
We have a massive cultural problem. ....
You r all looking incorrectly at narrow issues of players
We have a massive cultural problem. ....
Nope.... just a different topic....and something to talk about in another thread.
The problem is you have to have a base to build on.
You look at the side and you see the base is made up of Cripps, maybe Kreuzer and a few triers who wouldn't get a game with another side.
Our better players are our elder players and by the time we're good again they will be either gone or in the twilight of their careers.
Just to establish that base will take a couple of draft/trade periods....it's achievable, but not short term
There is a base.
Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Levi, Jaksh, Graham, Doc,
Maybe Clem, Hollman, BB, Whiley, Walsh Fields and DVR
Murphy, Kreuz, Everritt and Gibbs are young enough to still be around in 3-4 years.
Agree...this will be one of many beatings we have had for the year but this game and the next three are different as we position ourselves for the draft/trade period.
I wouldnt be judging the coach and some players on tonight or the nex three weeks...Barker has his instructions IMO and they might not be to everyone's liking.
Nup. I dont buy that.
We're just that crape. Its as simple as that. We've tanked before and it doesnt work. You can guarantee that if we did tank, the karma Gods will have us choose another dud.
Christ I wish we'd just take the game on! Run with the pill. Take risks up the guts. We're just playing it safe around the boundary every single time. Its as boring and predictable as batcrap. Even in the 1st qrt when briss were getting sone, they were playing the right way but there skills killed em. We kicked 5 straight going around the boundary or from their turnovers. I nearly fell off my chair when Dermie mr "expert comments " said this could get ugly for brisbane.
We were on a roll but were playing safe football. Safe wont get us anywhere.
Not much "C" in Adam Simpson " or " Luke Beveridge" either but plenty of flair and innovation...
Simmo, your right. Beverege? I reckon hes got plenty of it in him.
There is a base.
Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Levi, Jaksh, Graham, Doc,
Maybe Clem, Hollman, BB, Whiley, Walsh Fields and DVR
Murphy, Kreuz, Everritt and Gibbs are young enough to still be around in 3-4 years.
Wash your mouth out with soap.........Menzel is useless ::)
There is a base.
Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Levi, Jaksh, Graham, Doc,
Maybe Clem, Hollman, Walsh Fields and DVR
Murphy, Kreuz, Everritt and Gibbs are young enough to still be around in 3-4 years.
It's probably an optimist/ pessimist difference in our thinking.
I'm a bit pessimistic at the moment
Menzel can't even make this side...the other players you mention may have a bit to offer but in most cases they are either triers with limitations in their games ......or unrealised potential.
It's a guess with these blokes so you can't lock them in.
Cripps is the only one I feel confident in saying "This guy is going to have a long career."
There is a base.
Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Levi, Jaksh, Graham, Doc,
Maybe Clem, Hollman, BB, Whiley, Walsh Fields and DVR
Murphy, Kreuz, Everritt and Gibbs are young enough to still be around in 3-4 years.
Cripps, Buckley and Docherty I'll pay and I'd throw in Tuohy, Kreuzer, Murphy, Gibbs and Yarran if he's still at Carlton, but there's not a key position player among the lot of them and it's still only 8 AFL class players from a list of 40 or so.
It's a massive task.
It's probably an optimist/ pessimist difference in our thinking.
I'm a bit pessimistic at the moment
Menzel can't even make this side...the other players you mention may have a bit to offer but in most cases they are either triers with limitations in their games ......or unrealised potential.
It's a guess with these blokes so you can't lock them in.
Cripps is the only one I feel confident in saying "This guy is going to have a long career."
Menzel was good in the NB's last week and is a quality player compared to many on the list....selections this week were not based on winning the game IMO and both he and Yarran were
conveniently left out for reasons more than form or discipline...
Is that the reason he was dropped in the first place though
I think having a base of 8 is a good starting point.
Its a 66 game rebuild yeah ?
First of 3 drafts / trading periods to build the list coming up.
We ll further add to that base with something like 3 1st round picks (Pick 1 or 2 + compo for Hendo + trade for Yazz)
Carlisle and Aish (one via trade, 1 via PSD)
Jack SOS and Bailey Rice
Is that the reason he was dropped in the first place though
No doubt Menzel was given a wake up call by being dropped after lack of effort/poor form in recent weeks but like a good player he repsonded and was easily in our best players for
the NB;s last week and should have been a monty to get picked if we were serious about winning....picking Dick and Ellard over Menzel tells me we were never serious about winning this game....
I'd be expecting Jones and Tutt back for next week just to make sure of the result... ;)
Menzel was good in the NB's last week and is a quality player compared to many on the list....selections this week were not based on winning the game IMO and both he and Yarran were
conveniently left out for reasons more than form or discipline...
I think if Menzel and Yarran had've played last week and were dropped this week it might've looked a little suspicious. ;)
Oh my lord. Dick, Jones and Tutt in the same line up. Hell no. Unless Jones plays as a defender, I never want him in any side again. Tanking of the highest order.
Oh my lord. Dick, Jones and Tutt in the same line up. Hell no. Unless Jones plays as a defender, I never want him in any side again. Tanking of the highest order.
Reckon Jamo or Rowe might have a rest this week(Jones in down back) and Henderson in the weeks after that...need Hendo nice and fit for his medical when Geelong check him out..
No doubt Menzel was given a wake up call by being dropped after lack of effort/poor form in recent weeks but like a good player he repsonded and was easily in our best players for
the NB;s last week and should have been a monty to get picked if we were serious about winning....picking Dick and Ellard over Menzel tells me we were never serious about winning this game....
I'd be expecting Jones and Tutt back for next week just to make sure of the result... ;)
I just don't see the logic though....
Had Menzel played it would have made little difference to the result.
Yarran could have played at his best and it would have made little difference to the result.
Even if we are tanking we don't need to have them playing VFL.
I just don't see the logic though....
Had Menzel played it would have made little difference to the result.
Yarran could have played at his best and it would have made little difference to the result.
Even if we are tanking we don't need to have them playing VFL.
You never know.. as Brisbane showed early tonight they are not that good and we had to apply the handbrake IMO to let them take over.....
Rowe has seriously gone downhill this year.
Close to being delisted at seasons end based on form
You never know.. as Brisbane showed early tonight they are not that good and we had to apply the handbrake IMO to let them take over.....
We applied more than a hand brake....it was a stack of sleepers on the railroad tracks.
I don't discount the possibility of a manipulated result but once again it's not logical.
If we're tanking.
Why isn't Brisbane
Brisbane should be just as keen as us to secure the first pick.
They can grab the win and still manage the margin so they stay below us.
If they have their eyes set on a certain player the only way they can be sure of them is to finish last.
Another awful result. If the club is tanking is shows we have truly learnt nothing from a decade of disasters. Does it matter if we are trying to lose? We are incapable of winning with such a rotten culture and a group of players that seem to have little interest in doing what is required.
We can't be tanking, we just can't. And if we are then what the hell sort of strategy is that? So we get pick 1 not 2. So what. We have 3 first picks on our list and all have disappointed. Why will the next attempt have a different result? It says little about our much vaunted 'list manager' if he can't cope with a pick 2 not 1. And by the way, a key position player selected is going to be a couple of years away minimum from regular footy. In the mean time, we have a list full of players that cannot execute skills to an adequate level. What is the club's plan to address this much greater deficiency? Because while a new head coach might be important, they are going to inherit a mess, nor can it be left entirely to them.
Fourth wooden spoon coming up after a 10 goal defeat by the previously bottom side. Say that again. Nothing that can redeem such a performance.
As for the game itself, hardly any 4 quarter players bar Cripps and Kruezer. The backline seemed to spend half their time falling over and were mostly disorganised. Midfield didn't run enough, so brisbane raffled it coming out of defence. And so little pressure from the forward line that hardly manages to actually score.
My 4 year old even countenanced the possibility of barracking for another team. How long can such a tide be held back?
Picks are not as important as developing players. If we don't learn this trade secret soon we will never prosper. The key is not the number value of the pick as much as what you develop in the selection to become something special. Hird the turn wasn't a high pick. Yet he became a scum great. I am not saying I have all the answers and am correct in my opinion either. Just putting nit out there.
Picks are not as important as developing players. If we don't learn this trade secret soon we will never prosper. The key is not the number value of the pick as much as what you develop in the selection to become something special. Hird the turn wasn't a high pick. Yet he became a scum great. I am not saying I have all the answers and am correct in my opinion either. Just putting nit out there.
Mantis it's the bleeding obvious AND it's bleeding obvious the club have no idea how to fix the problem - how long have they had and over how many drafts? The lack of development at Carlton has been nothing short of negligent, some of these players had talent and if they'd gone to other clubs would have been successful - we simply cannot develop talent at Carlton. We're rubbish in this area and have been rubbish since probably as far back as our last premiership. We don't rebuild at Carlton included we don't develop at Carlton.
I said awhile back that we're so poor we cannot be trusted with draft picks - we'll just screw them up, we have to get the top one or two picks to ensure we don't pick a Richard Tambling like the Tigers. It has to be so simple a monkey could do it. We're probably better off picking the best developed talent at some other club and trading our picks and paying overs to at least guarantee some sort of talent. Our culture is rotten, our development structure is rubbish, we have an ineffectual board and leadership and we'll struggle to attract top line talent for years to come.
We applied more than a hand brake....it was a stack of sleepers on the railroad tracks.
I don't discount the possibility of a manipulated result but once again it's not logical.
If we're tanking.
Why isn't Brisbane
Brisbane should be just as keen as us to secure the first pick.
They can grab the win and still manage the margin so they stay below us.
If they have their eyes set on a certain player the only way they can be sure of them is to finish last.
- They know we're going to take Weitering and they want Schache so they could afford to beat us
- They have plenty of young talent that just needs developing (despite all our outs they had a younger and less experienced team on average
- Blokes like Rockliff and Robinson wanted to stick it to us
- We have more experience in tanking
Oh well.
I have spent the last 15 minutes reading all your posts.
Bottom line.
We are cr@p.
Too many spuds. Rowe, Jones, Tutt, Dick to name a few.
Jammo is gone. Has terrible shoulders so he can't tackle with any intensity. Carrazzo gone. Touhey playing without any heart. Everritt is like my shower. Runs hot and cold and drives you mad because of it. Walker isn't the future. Simmo, maybe another year if the constant knocks don't finish him first.
I could go on but I won't.
Then there is the so called skills. They aint got any. Can't stick a tackle, although every attempt at a tackle gets recorded as one. In fact the only one that I saw actually stick a tackle every time he tried to do so was Cripps.
If they won't make him Captain next year because they reckon he's too young, then make him Vice Captain. He's got more ability, brains and courage in his little finger, than the rest of them have in their whole bodies.
Only two possibles at the moment for coach, as far as I'm told. Bolton the favourite because of the Clarkson connection, and Stewart Dew who was secretly interviewed this week and impressed.
Half the Board are deadwood.
SOS wants to asses all the "kids" hence the reason they are getting a go.
We do have a nucleus on which to build and we need to finish bottom for two reasons.
Firstly to get the number one pick. Secondly, because there is a chance we will get a priority pick. The club is financially rooted and Trigg has spoken to the AFL about this and the possibility of getting the PP. They haven't said no yet.
They can't afford a major club like ours to die on the vine.
As far as the supporters are concerned and the players damaging the brand and so on, forget about it.
The excitement of the draft, let's hope they don't screw it up, some decent trades, and a new coach will soon put all that to rest.
They will remove the deadwood and will show no fear or favour in doing so.
And then just watch the optimism return.
I have seen this before.
In 1964, our Centenary year, we finished 10th. It was the lowest our club had ever been.
In 1965, they went and got Barrasi, and in 68, we won the flag. And in 70, and 72 etc.
We did it once and can do it again as long as the right personnel are put in place.
And that means the Board, the CEO, the new coach and his coaching staff and the recruiting department, have to work there bums off to make it so.
It can all come together very quickly, by that I mean within 3 years like it did from 65 to 68.
The future rests in the hands of those who run the club and those that they have and will employ.
Let us hope they don't fk it up.
@bicnic
Dew is out of the running and I think Barker is rumoured to be too - http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/stuart-dew-has-informed-sydney-he-will-not-join-carlton-has-not-been-contacted-by-adelaide/story-e6frf3e3-1227484141780
I think Bolton and Burns are still strong candidates.
There is a base.
Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Levi, Jaksh, Graham, Doc,
Maybe Clem, Hollman, BB, Whiley, Walsh Fields and DVR
Murphy, Kreuz, Everritt and Gibbs are young enough to still be around in 3-4 years.
Spot on, we have a great base to build up with.
If henderson isn't dropped next week Barker can go and eat a huge debrecina, seriously, drops Yarran for attitude problems but give henderson yet another chance, this time in defence. Henderson is a disgrace.
And Scache looks better than Weitering.
- They know we're going to take Weitering and they want Schache so they could afford to beat us
- They have plenty of young talent that just needs developing (despite all our outs they had a younger and less experienced team on average
- Blokes like Rockliff and Robinson wanted to stick it to us
- We have more experience in tanking
If it's a choice between us tanking or just being an absolute basket case at the moment....I'm going to go with 'basket case.'
If we're tanking someone needs to get into Cripps' ear.
He's not following the program.
Tanking suggests we're "playing dead"
That we're better than we are actually showing.
I'm sure many of us believe the fix is in.
I suspect for many supporters though, the 'tanking theory' is a refuge for those who are struggling with how bad we actually are.
I will concede that at this stage though you would have to think that winning has now become a non-issue.
But the reality is that we are playing, and considering playing, players who are already thinking about their new team-mates.
This can't be a united playing group and there would be some players (to their credit) who are refusing to buy into anything other than an all-out effort.
These guys see the half efforts of others and that further widens any gaps in the group.
There's more to fix here than just a playing group.
Jamo has said he let the loss get the better of him and he was pi55ed that Robbo played so well, hence his behaviour. He actually seemed really shattered with the loss.
Sheesh would've been nice to have Robbo on our side last night.
@Lods
Find the right coach and we are halfway there.
And seriously, WTF is David Ellard getting a full game ahead of Holman? I mean seriously WTF. Is this club fair dinkum? You have a bloke about to get delisted, getting a full game ahead of another who perhaps has a future and needs to get games into himself. WTF is this idiot club doing?
Barker has well and truly lost me and if Abdy McKay has anything to do with that then he needs to go as well.
Spot on, we have a great base to build up with.
Maybe I'm the pessimist now...A year is a long time in footy :) but.....
Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Levi, Jaksh, Graham, Doc,
Maybe Clem, Hollman, BB, Whiley, Walsh Fields and DVRThis great base is speculative at best.
I see a bit of potential in most of those players.
Fields has a nice kick.....but if we're setting him up as someone to build a team around (which is what a base is) I'll need to see a bit more.
Your base has to be guaranteed best 22 every game.
I suspect we'll be talking about getting rid of half of that group this time next year
Missing Menzel, Gibbs, Judd, Yarran, Armfield, Graham, Thomas, Casboult, White (and even Byrne and Sheehan) is just too much for the kids to compensate for. Throw in Henderson playing like he doesn't give a rusty fck and Everitt having no defensive game (or ticker) and you have a recipe for defeat. It does not bode well for the next 3 weeks. The NBs might have to borrow players from the Seaford -16s.
You left out Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer and Simpson lods. They too are part of the base. And possibly Yarran as well. Add a free agent or two. Weitering or Scache plus another early second rounder. SOS and Rice. Any draft pick we get from Hendo the spud. Pick up a good player via the preseason draft. It can all turn around very quickly.
You left out Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer and Simpson lods. They too are part of the base. And ossibly Yarran as well. Add a free agent or two. Weitering or Scache plus another early second rounder. SOS and Rice. Pick up a good player via the preseason draft. It can all turn around very quickly.
Murphy Gibbs Kreuzer are given
Simpson cant have too many seasons left the way he gets battered about.
I'll stand kicking to death if Yarran is still on our list next year.
I'm not discounting we'll improve....What I'm not sure about is whether players like Gibbs and Murphy will still be around when we're challenging.
Probably not Murph, possibly Gibbs. Definitely Kreuzer (hopefully).
We need to get as many Carlton people on the list as possibly, because only these blokes will have the passion and the drive to get us up the ladder. It's about more than a pay cheque for players like Buckley (and dare I say it Robbo). That's why Rice and SOS are a must, we need more players with the same drive as Dylan Buckley. Players that will love our club unconditionally like Robbo (dare I say it).
Maybe I'm the pessimist now...A year is a long time in footy :) but.....
Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Levi, Jaksh, Graham, Doc,
Maybe Clem, Hollman, BB, Whiley, Walsh Fields and DVR
This great base is speculative at best.
I see a bit of potential in most of those players.
Fields has a nice kick.....but if we're setting him up as someone to build a team around (which is what a base is) I'll need to see a bit more.
Your base has to be guaranteed best 22 every game.
I suspect we'll be talking about getting rid of half of that group this time next year
Spot on, we made a similar mistake with Watson, thought he was the new corner stone of our defence , and look where that is now. Half those , haven't shown any where near enough to be considered a "base" .
We made the mistake of never playing Watson. He will without doubt go elsewhere and become a player.
Could be but its seems strange in these times he is one where we thought he would have got that game time, but maybe his papers are already stamped? Agree he hasn't had the best time around. But he has only show a few good games , but seems to be remembered for his kicking and the game at the end of the season where he kicked a few goals. He has been around for a long time
Watson might kick a few somewhere else .... perhaps with his mates at Airport West or Keilor or something like that, but it won't be at this Carlton next year.
The little I saw looked like a club keen to play versus a mob of players barely going through the motions waiting for the season to end... considering the soft draw we scored this year to end up with so few wins is downright embarrassing. If we were half serious we'd beat the bears, Dees etc, but 10 goal thrashings? I just don't see how such results benefit the club going forwards.
I'd like to know why our recruiters went after Matty Dick ... because I just don't see it. Already this draft is kind of looking like the 2010 wipe-out, except that the 2014 draft was decent. Our recruiters could fall into a barrel of strawberries and come up with a pebble.
......................................
The little I saw looked like a club keen to play versus a mob of players barely going through the motions waiting for the season to end... considering the soft draw we scored this year to end up with so few wins is downright embarrassing. If we were half serious we'd beat the bears, Dees etc, but 10 goal thrashings? I just don't see how such results benefit the club going forwards.
...........................
Completely agree with this.
Haha, Robbo 33 touches, 15 tackles, 7 clearances. Still happy he's not at the club ruining our culture Murph? Just sayin.....
Haha, Robbo 33 touches, 15 tackles, 7 clearances. Still happy he's not at the club ruining our culture Murph? Just sayin.....
Robbo looked keener than most last night.....we need some Robbo types to harden us up...
I would say Bolton is about a lock for the job now.
Cripps has bigger set shot issues than Casboult. At least Cas has penetration and it was more a accuracy and technique issue, Cripps can't get any penetration and thus shanks them all because he has to try to hard to make the distance.
Barker has well and truly lost me and if Abdy McKay has anything to do with that then he needs to go as well.
I posted in another thread that McKay took over in October 2011. Steven Icke was 2007-2011.
We made the mistake of never playing Watson. He will without doubt go elsewhere and become a player.
Back to Pascoe Vale is my best guess.
I have seen this before.
In 1964, our Centenary year, we finished 10th. It was the lowest our club had ever been.
In 1965, they went and got Barrasi, and in 68, we won the flag. And in 70, and 72 etc.
All of this was pre draft and salary cap, as was buying in Kernahan, Bradley, Motley and Dorotich in the one year.
It's infinitely more difficult now, at best you can recruit three good footballers a year and we've continually failed to do even that.
Back to Pascoe Vale is my best guess.
Bombers will be looking for some warm bodies next year. He'll make up the potential AA Bombers backline with Gwilt.
Said it before....
These games are meaningless, apart from getting another game into the kids.
Our season begins at the end of the playing season.
Getting this the next few drafting/trading periods RIGHT could seriously set up a dynasty, so really who cares about losing to the Lions or finishing last.
I care about every game we play.
Clem Smith's a bit of a battler isn't he?
Deceptively slow, a horrible, a high up and under kick and cannot stick a tackle to save himself.
So do I, but in the larger scheme of things, it really doesn't matter.
We made the mistake of never playing Watson. He will without doubt go elsewhere and become a player.
I just had flashbacks to hotcox and Edwards
So do I, but in the larger scheme of things, it really doesn't matter.
I'm not really sure whether "the promised land" could be considered a meta narrative. It sure feels like one to me.
We've been promised this land for a long time now. First it was Den Den, then the 3 No 1's, then Pratt, then Judd, then Malthouse, now it's SOS, the new coach, Cripps, more first round picks etc.
We're like the guy who waits at the bus stop, and even though they've been waiting for years, seems either unwilling or unable to grasp the fact that there ain't no bus, and maybe we should walk to our destination. or find some other means. But no, we keep waiting. That bus is surely just around the corner.
Clem Smith's a bit of a battler isn't he?
Deceptively slow, a horrible, a high up and under kick and cannot stick a tackle to save himself.
I've waited 20 weeks for someone to agree with me.
I haven't watched the game but note from the stats that Robinson, Redden and Rockliff had more than half of Brisbane's tackles. There mustn't have been a lot of pressure from the rest of the team ::)
Said it before....
These games are meaningless, apart from getting another game into the kids.
Our season begins at the end of the playing season.
Getting this the next few drafting/trading periods RIGHT could seriously set up a dynasty, so really who cares about losing to the Lions or finishing last.
Agree 100%. Picking the team based on the best performed players (MM) and a couple of wins and some honorable losses could have seen us with maybe pick 5 or 6. We've shored up the #1 pick who looks like the elite forward we've been waiting for, got plenty of games into the kids, put nearly the whole list to the torch and auditioned a potential senior coach. I'm sure peoples memories of this season will fade once Schache starts kicking bags.
I agree, Scache is the man.
Crash, if you're reading, does Scache come with leadership qualities?
Jamo has said he let the loss get the better of him and he was pi55ed that Robbo played so well, hence his behaviour. He actually seemed really shattered with the loss.
Sheesh would've been nice to have Robbo on our side last night.
I like the fact that Jamo was livid. Much prefer that than seeing our players having a good old belly laugh with the opposition after they've cut us new one.
Have only seen the highlights but where was Robbo the donkey who was only good for hurried "hail mary's" into the forward line and for using his head as a battering ram?
What does that say about our coaching and development?
I agree, Scache is the man.
Crash, if you're reading, does Scache come with leadership qualities?
From the limited highlights i've seen, i'd prefer Schache over Weitering.
....although...
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-11/who-won-the-battle-of-the-no1-picks
JACOB Weitering has emerged a clear winner over Josh Schache in the TAC Cup battle between the two potential No.1 draft picks on Saturday.
...
Weitering, the key defender likened to Geelong's Harry Taylor, gave away 4cm and 6kg to Schache but still beat him in every contest.
Re Robbo and to think he was one bloke that really bled for the jumper and wanted to play for the club.
I'm not really sure whether "the promised land" could be considered a meta narrative. It sure feels like one to me.
We've been promised this land for a long time now. First it was Den Den, then the 3 No 1's, then Pratt, then Judd, then Malthouse, now it's SOS, the new coach, Cripps, more first round picks etc.
We're like the guy who waits at the bus stop, and even though they've been waiting for years, seems either unwilling or unable to grasp the fact that there ain't no bus, and maybe we should walk to our destination. or find some other means. But no, we keep waiting. That bus is surely just around the corner.
Too true. Barracking for Carlton reminds me of that girl I had a crush on in High School. I was sure she'd stop treating me with disdain and would eventually respect me if I simply did everything she asked.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/DV8gs5tVXeiZi/giphy-facebook_s.jpg)
@bicnic
Dew is out of the running and I think Barker is rumoured to be too - http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/stuart-dew-has-informed-sydney-he-will-not-join-carlton-has-not-been-contacted-by-adelaide/story-e6frf3e3-1227484141780
I think Bolton and Burns are still strong candidates.
Thanks MilkIt,
I was told that they flew Dew down early last week and interviewed him. they were impressed, but still had Bolton in front. Dew probably realised he wasn'y gunna get the job, so he's staying put.
John Lloyd, from Perth is a scratching.
I hadn't heard about Burns, but will check with my source to see how accurate that is.
Bolton is as good as over the line for the job I reckon.
Too true. Barracking for Carlton reminds me of that girl I had a crush on in High School. I was sure she'd stop treating me with disdain and would eventually respect me if I simply did everything she asked.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/DV8gs5tVXeiZi/giphy-facebook_s.jpg)
;D ;D ;D
3 of our last 4 premierships were coached by someone who came through the Hawthorn machine. Let's go back to the future. Bolton's the man.
3 of our last 4 premierships were coached by someone who came through the Hawthorn machine. Let's go back to the future. Bolton's the man.
Stick with patterns that have worked in the past then. ;)
I just had flashbacks to hotcox and Edwards
:)) :)) :))
And seriously, WTF is David Ellard getting a full game ahead of Holman? I mean seriously WTF. Is this club fair dinkum? You have a bloke about to get delisted, getting a full game ahead of another who perhaps has a future and needs to get games into himself. WTF is this idiot club doing?
Barker has well and truly lost me and if Abdy McKay has anything to do with that then he needs to go as well.
At least they are not dumb enough to pick Watson.
Fwiw, id prefer Dew as coach over Bolton. I just dont see enough C**t in Bolton to be a senior coach.
If he has any, it would fade into insignificance next to Clarkson - hard to tell until the brighter light goes behind a cloud.
Jamison should retire like 10 others and don't hit our salary cap. ...do the honorable thing....
Jamo is far from the player he was but he is still our best tall defender
I agree, Scache is the man.
Crash, if you're reading, does Scache come with leadership qualities?
I want Weitering. Schache is a bit of a one trick pony IMO. Given we have Casboult who is a similar type I would be going with the key defender because Jamison is cooked and Rowe is just not very good. From what I've heard, Weitering is a better athlete and has better leadership qualities.
Weitering also beat him one on one.
schache thanks.
Beautiful left foot kick, good overhead.
will be a real machine once he's had a preseason with dank
;D
You guys haven't even seen him play. ;D
C'mon. How would we know?
Reading Cazzeman, he reckons it's Weitering by some margin.
Like I said once before, we should just ask Hughes who he'd take, and then take the other one, or pick 7.
Have seen some of Scache. Not prepared to write him off especially for the better athlete. I like your Hughes theory though.
@RiverRat
Cmon mate it's becoming a hit of an obsession of yours isn't it? No one is allowed to comment on Watson?
I just had flashbacks to hotcox and Edwards
Mate you have got so much wrong over time that I've let slide it's just not funny. In fact you have gotten pretty much everything wrong:
- you'll know we have i proved when Carrazzo and Sctoland can't get a game (my all time fav)
- let's take Leuenberger or Hansen over Gibbs
- Mick has improved this side (another ripper)
- getting rid of Robbo is great for culture
- let's not sack Mick
That's just off the top of my head. If you want to go on about hotcox style comments and getting it wrong all the time look no further than yourself. ;)
;D
You guys haven't even seen him play. ;D
C'mon. How would we know?
Reading Cazzeman, he reckons it's Weitering by some margin.
Like I said once before, we should just ask Hughes who he'd take, and then take the other one, or pick 7.
ROFL!
Weitering for me.....beat Schache during the carnival and has already been tested vs mature players.....had leadership qualities and is a more polished player IMO....if Cazzeman reckons Weitering is better then thats who we will be taking given his connections to the recruiting dept.
I understand the love for Schache given his size, kicking and domination at U 18 level but I think he will come back to the field vs mature age players, I also understand we have been burned by the recruiting of Watson and another so called ready to go CHB has people thinking twice...
If Watson wasn't so slow he would be a gun.
Is Weitering quick?
If Watson wasn't so slow he would be a gun.
Is Weitering quick?
Weitering reminds me of SOS, if SOS had a kick like Ang Christou!
When you get a chance check out Weitering's hands, in both size and application they are extraordinary. When he clunks a mark he grabs the ball that strongly it sounds like some players trying to kick!
Weitering reminds me of SOS, if SOS had a kick like Ang Christou!
If this is remotely accurate, bring on the spoon!
Mate you have got so much wrong over time that I've let slide it's just not funny. In fact you have gotten pretty much everything wrong:
- you'll know we have i proved when Carrazzo and Sctoland can't get a game (my all time fav)
- let's take Leuenberger or Hansen over Gibbs
- Mick has improved this side (another ripper)
- getting rid of Robbo is great for culture
- let's not sack Mick
That's just off the top of my head. If you want to go on about hotcox style comments and getting it wrong all the time look no further than yourself. ;)
OK, its off the top of your head, so i'll let it slide that its a little bit inaccurate.
Let me explain (corrected statements in bold)....
1. If Scotland and Carrazzo are still in our best players every week (given we just drafted 3 pick #1 players, as well as other top 20 picks) then we will not be in a position to win a flag.
- Both won B+Fs and played out of their skin. However, our #1 picks have been hit and miss, yet still won 2 B+Fs between them, and we haven't had much else come through in terms of development. Now, remind me, how many flags have we won? How many times have we come close?? The comment was saying that they were players who were best 22, but not going to win you a flag or enough games off their own boot to get you in the position to win one. So...i was right.
2.
I think we should take a KPP player, preferably Hansen, as our needs in that position far outweigh our needs for a Gibbs type player.Keep in mind that i saw Gibbs absolutely dominate some under age games and was well aware of how good he was, and is. My issue was that he is essentially, a postionless player. Something that has been played out over his career to date. Only in the last 18 months have we 'found' his position - the midfield. Prior to that he was a spare parts man.
Alternatively, we still haven't found a genuine CHB, nor CHF (Gumby) which is still a priority. I'm not a scout, but i know what we need(ed). We still need it! IF all things were equal, i wanted a KPP before a HBF/mid type. All things were not equal and Gibbs was seen as the best player there....until Selwood.
Should i bring up your recruiting requests? How is Panos going??
3.
Mick is improving the CULTURE of the clubMick was trying to improve the culture of the club. Ultimately, he failed. Ideally, he shouldn't have to try and improve the culture of the club. However, we, put simply, are a $hit club. We are $hit from top to bottom. He did what he could to try and turn that around, but it was a job too big for 1 man. TBH, i don't know how many it would take to turn it around, but it's more than anyone currently at the club has been able to achieve, including Mick.
4.
Ditching players who lie to the club is essential for improving culture, that includes RobboNever had a beef with how he played. Just the way he couldn't get his $hit together off the field. Just like Fev, its a distraction. As we can see from above, its a task too big for one man. Can't blame him for trying though. Looking back at Robbos career now is forgetting all the bad games he played for us. All the times he gave away stupid free kicks, 50m penalties, bombed the ball up in the air without looking. Yes, he tried his guts out, but he wasn't as great a footballer as your memory tells you. Several people, including mild mannered Lods, have said if you don't wanna play for the club and do what is required to be a player at the club, then piss off. Robbo falls into that category, and i stand by it.
5.
Sacking Mick, will not fix all our problems. We have much bigger problems than our senior coach.Does this really need explaining? haven't heard any "Woof woof" out of you lately, how is your saviour going? About as good as all our coaches over the past 15 years. IT IS NOT THE COACH! Again, proven right.
Any beef you have the above comments, is a failure to comprehend said comments.
Yeah nah, the comments were clearly that we will know when we've improved because Carrazzo and Scotland won't be able to get a game. Two of our best players of this century, both absolute guns. So far wrong it's just not funny. :))
The rest I can't be bothered with but history says you get it wrong a lot more than you get it right, or should I say you never get it right. Gibbs was the best, Mick failed, we'd kill for a Robbo etc. All wrong. Hotcox. In fact the only difference is Hotcox was taking the piss whereas you actually believed all thse things, so even worse really.;)
Yeah nah, the comments were clearly that we will know when we've improved because Carrazzo and Scotland won't be able to get a game. Two of our best players of this century, both absolute guns. So far wrong it's just not funny. :))
The rest I can't be bothered with but history says you get it wrong a lot more than you get it right, or should I say you never get it right. Gibbs was the best, Mick failed, we'd kill for a Robbo etc. All wrong. Hotcox. ;)
Go look it up, its all there. I stand by it.
Just because you say its different, doesn't make you so. It makes you a jimbo clone. ;) Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.
Go look it up, its all there. I stand by it.
Just because you say its different, doesn't make you so. It makes you a jimbo clone. ;) Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.
Over and over? First time I've said it. I've tried to go easy on you but your Hotcox comment calls for a little truth. You and I both know you got it horribly wrong, how others perceive it means little. :P
Over and over? First time I've said it. I've tried to go easy on you but your Hotcox comment calls for a little truth. You and I both know you got it horribly wrong, how others perceive it means little. :P
So you are grumpy because its a little too close to the truth for your liking.
You an I both know your comprehension skills need to be worked on if you are suggesting what i pointed out above is 'wrong'.
Anyway, no more straying off topic or the off-topic police will come running. ;)
Like I said once before, we should just ask Hughes who he'd take, and then take the other one, or pick 7.
Hard to argue with that logic.