Axe has to come for Mullet, Garlett, Jones, O’Shea, Kennedy, Cunningham, Weitering, SPS, Casboult, SOJ, Graham and reckons Dow and O’Brien need a spell.
And think Kruezer is re injured.
So min of 14 changes. Could be a record. :o
it was only 4 -5 weeks ago, we looked competitive
something has happened in the last 3-4 weeks
I thought O'Brien did well.
Axe has to come for Mullet, Garlett, Jones, O’Shea, Kennedy, Cunningham, Weitering, SPS, Casboult, SOJ, Graham and reckons Dow and O’Brien need a spell.
And think Kruezer is re injured.
So min of 14 changes. Could be a record. :o
Can't wait to hear from Bolts. >:D
I thought O'Brien did well.
Couple of poor disposals but I thought he held up ok and he is there to learn not win us the game...I'd just keep playing him on a wing for the rest of the season.
I agree wasn't our worst
Synergy, little wins, green shoots, bean shoots, weeds......
Dead wood, poison ivy, deadly nightshade, dieback, sooty mould......
| # Score out of 10 1 4 2 3 4 4 5 3 6 5 7 4 8 5 9 5 14 5 18 3 20 4 21 5 23 4 24 3 25 4 28 2 30 4 32 3 35 5 39 6 41 4 46 4 |
I thought O'Brien did well.
Yeah your right. After a shaky start he looked quite comfortable.
Im just frustrated. His name shouldn’t be in that list.
Even Dow showed signs and wasn’t our worst but just think he might need a spell. Our history of throwing our kids to the wolves doesn’t seem to yield the results.
There OK but physically challenged at this stage
I have said the Jones experiment as a key defender is over. But play him as the loose "seventh" defender (ex forward), no opponent, just loose and full of juice.....
Gotta get excited about something :'( :'( :'( :'(
Dead wood, poison ivy, deadly nightshade, dieback, sooty mould......
Maybe once Rowe is back he cab play that role?
Can we forfeit The rest of the season?
I can’t watch this crap again.
Depressing. Demoralising. Disgusting.
No green shoots here at all, just despair.
Looking back even more fondly on the Ratten era, yes there were problems but at least there was something. Now I find nothing. Nothing.
Paid up reserved seat member for over a decade. Paying $1500+ for that? No. Sorry, want to be thru and thru and think we have been. My kids have been told there’s no choice in our house, we are Blue. But, this is a fcking farce. Fck the sanctions from all that time ago. screw it all. Why are we so non competitive?! Don’t worry about wins or losses. Wtf has made us so miserably crap for years?
Over it.
FINAL SCORE
Ben Brown 5.1 (31)
Carlton 4.6 (30)
Yeah your right. After a shaky start he looked quite comfortable.
Im just frustrated. His name shouldn’t be in that list.
Even Dow showed signs and wasn’t our worst but just think he might need a spell. Our history of throwing our kids to the wolves doesn’t seem to yield the results.
Well, we are certainly not throwing Harry McKay to the wolves...so he should be a champ when he gets his chance in 2or3 years time after he has “learnt his craft”....pfft
Well, we are certainly not throwing Harry McKay to the wolves...so he should be a champ when he gets his chance in 2or3 years time after he has “learnt his craft”....pfft
That's happened twice today. Martin 6.0.36 Brisbane 2.5.17. At least we were close...lol.
Seriously, where does a win come from this year??? It’s not unreasonable to think we won’t win a game this year....
Must say I'm shocked. I was so positive with Murphy out and Graham in, as some on here have been baying for, I was sure we would win easily.....
Must say I'm shocked. I was so positive with Murphy out and Graham in, as some on here have been baying for, I was sure we would win easily.....
LP, I'm not a physio but what exactly are Kreuzer's and Murph's injuries?
I had a groin tear and missed a season, could run in a straight line but couldn't move laterally. Lost pace and power and it took 18 months to improve.
Murph's injury sounds serious, is it related to an achilles strain? I can see him missing a lot of football as well.
LP, I'm not a physio but what exactly are Kreuzer's and Murph's injuries?
I had a groin tear and missed a season, could run in a straight line but couldn't move laterally. Lost pace and power and it took 18 months to improve.
Murph's injury sounds serious, is it related to an achilles strain? I can see him missing a lot of football as well.
LP, I'm not a physio but what exactly are Kreuzer's and Murph's injuries?
I had a groin tear and missed a season, could run in a straight line but couldn't move laterally. Lost pace and power and it took 18 months to improve.
Murph's injury sounds serious, is it related to an achilles strain? I can see him missing a lot of football as well.
Putting aside any discussion about game plan & tactics.....it’s our basic skills & decision-making which are the biggest red flags for me, they simply aren’t AFL standard & quite frankly, an indictment on the entire playing group....
Does anyone else get the feeling that Cripps is playing "angry".
He's carrying a big weight at the moment and with both Gibbs gone and now Murphy missing he's copping all the attention.
Hardly a wonder his effectiveness is down.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Cripps is playing "angry".
He's carrying a big weight at the moment and with both Gibbs gone and now Murphy missing he's copping all the attention.
Hardly a wonder his effectiveness is down.
I said Kreuzer's injury was probably going to be a long term thing, he'll probably be like that for the remainder of the season, if they keep playing him.
I won't be surprised that they pull the pin on him before halfway and start setting him for 2019. The thing is if it's a iliopsoas it cannot get worse, but I doubt it will improve while he continues playing. They need him to get working on building support strength to correct the loss of core stability or he'll burn this season and most of his next!
This season is lost already, why fight it!
Putting aside any discussion about game plan & tactics.....it’s our basic skills & decision-making which are the biggest red flags for me, they simply aren’t AFL standard & quite frankly, an indictment on the entire playing group....
Hey everybody ! Why so glum ? In the not too distant future, when we become the Melbourne equivalent of the great Brisbane 3peat teams, performances like yesterday will be a long, distant memory. Just hang on my friends. Food will taste better, the air will seem fresher. You'll have more energy and self confidence than you ever dreamed of.
Here is a big part of our problem:
Sam Docherty Season
Jarrod Pickett 10 weeks
Ciaran Byrne 3-4 weeks
Tom Williamson 3-4 weeks
Darcy Lang Test
Cillian McDaid 4-5 weeks
Caleb Marchbank 4 weeks
Matthew Lobbe 4 weeks
Alex Silvagni 2-3 weeks
Murphy Who knows?
Kennedy Who knows?
Kreuzer Who knows?
That's nearly half of our best team is unavailable and won't be available for at least a month.
Strap yourselves in for a rough ride and see how we look at the end of May.
Out coached.
NM crowded our forwards. Bolton had no counter plan.
Expect crisis meetings soon
Here is a big part of our problem:
Sam Docherty Season
Jarrod Pickett 10 weeks
Ciaran Byrne 3-4 weeks
Tom Williamson 3-4 weeks
Darcy Lang Test
Cillian McDaid 4-5 weeks
Caleb Marchbank 4 weeks
Matthew Lobbe 4 weeks
Alex Silvagni 2-3 weeks
Murphy Who knows?
Kennedy Who knows?
Kreuzer Who knows?
That's nearly half of our best team is unavailable and won't be available for at least a month.
Strap yourselves in for a rough ride and see how we look at the end of May.
We have forwards?
I'm not sure going with bam bam and Dow first up ahead of kerridge with his finish to last season has sent the right message to the group.
Player Disposals
SPS 12
Graham 12
O'Brien 11
Cuners 10
Dow 10
Garlett 8
None of these blokes ahould be playing 1s on revealed form.
Out coached.
NM crowded our forwards. Bolton had no counter plan.
Expect crisis meetings soon
He said in his presser they were shifting extra numbers around to plug holes. In the end, there werent enough +1s to send around. At some point, you need to stop relying on extras being shifted around by WINNING THE FARKEN CONTESTED FOOTY. If you have it, they dont. If you hand it over to them, its gonna hurt.
As Clarkson stated a couple of years ago, winning the contested ball is overstated, as long as you have the means of forcing a quick turnover, as the Hawks did frequently in their recent 3peat.
Steps I would take today:
1. Summons the entire coaching and playing list to a remote location and light a big campfire;
2. Wheel in a trailer load of VB;
3. Look each other in the eye and dish out some home truths around the campfire, a no holds barred free for all;
4. Empty said trailer load of VB;
5. Start fresh with the footy stuff Tuesday.
Not sure that will work, the younger generation are not into VB.
Not sure that will work, the younger generation are not into VB.
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
...so that's the problem!!!
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
I think we have gotten ahead of ourselves.
We have dropped triers like Silvagni in round 1, o Shea in round 2, lamb and polson in round 3, to bring in players with little exposed form and have avoided dropping others who are talented but not contributing and also blokes carrying injuries with the end result being last night's debacle.
Sometimes you have to reward the effort in order to ensure players keep playing with effort.
I'm not sure going with bam bam and Dow first up ahead of kerridge with his finish to last season has sent the right message to the group.
We've since obviously made further changes that have similarly cost us the ability to be competitive and it's all pointing to us having pulled the wrong reign.
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
Clarkson is over-rated, they had massive AFL assistance to build that list, Kennett complained and complained until they got super deals and maximum support. The Dawks were receiving priority picks when we were finishing on the bottom of the ladder.
I have hated Clarkson's guts since the Battle of Brittain.... but I would sack Bolton and replace him with Clarkson in a heartbeat.
we need some one with a bit of C.U.N.T.
Here is a big part of our problem:
Sam Docherty Season
Jarrod Pickett 10 weeks
Ciaran Byrne 3-4 weeks
Tom Williamson 3-4 weeks
Darcy Lang Test
Cillian McDaid 4-5 weeks
Caleb Marchbank 4 weeks
Matthew Lobbe 4 weeks
Alex Silvagni 2-3 weeks
Murphy Who knows?
Kennedy Who knows?
Kreuzer Who knows?
That's nearly half of our best team is unavailable and won't be available for at least a month.
Strap yourselves in for a rough ride and see how we look at the end of May.
Bolton is as close to Clarkson as it's possible to be. Apart from the article below, I have word from someone connected to the Hawks that what Lewis says is true. If you want Clarkson, this is as close as it gets.
I have never heard Clarkson pot any of his players in a presser. I don't watch every one, but the ones I have watched he defends them quite a lot.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorns-jordan-lewis-says-new-carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-is-a-clone-of-top-hawk-alastair-clarkson/news-story/c7c6c624d8ce5e64e103446e735d7841
Bolton is as close to Clarkson as it's possible to be. Apart from the article below, I have word from someone connected to the Hawks that what Lewis says is true. If you want Clarkson, this is as close as it gets.
I have never heard Clarkson pot any of his players in a presser. I don't watch every one, but the ones I have watched he defends them quite a lot.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorns-jordan-lewis-says-new-carlton-coach-brendon-bolton-is-a-clone-of-top-hawk-alastair-clarkson/news-story/c7c6c624d8ce5e64e103446e735d7841
Yes, maybe but you don't last long when you side doesn't crack in and have a proper go. Hopefully that changes for his sake.
WW we can add those returning serious injury. Sam Rowe and Flipper, and may be others I've forgotten.
That's 14 players not available for selection.
Then there's the real newbies (I.e. 1st yrs) too who are simply not ready for AFL. That only leaves our fringe players and the few in yr 2/3.
Then we have a senoir coach on trainer wheels who no longer has a wise mentor in the coaches box.
Our defence...
It was a strength last year.
At the very least let's get that back and functioning. Go back to the old set-up (have we deviated much from it) ....or has it been worked out and exploited?
Obviously with Docherty missing theré's an integral part of the rebound from defence missing, but there seems to be no-one who has taken up, or even attempted, to take up that role.
Our defense was good as half the team were back there last season :), but we couldnt score given when the ball went forward it was usually 3 on six or similar but it did make games closer and more interesting until the media bagged us out for playing unattractive footy and Bolton got pressured to be more attacking/stylish with his game plan.
We have the players to play good defense, we dont have the players to be a good offensive team.
Its an interesting point you make as what will it take for Bolton to crack and go back to the old game plan, how many big defeats until the dam breaks and he starts playing more men back and behind the ball..?
Totally agree, but who? I'd like it to be a Carlton person, someone who could coach and possesses some mongrel.
I haven't seen the presser. Anyone know how many times Bolts used the word 'growth'?
Surely there is something wrong. Most of our players are better than that. Bolts is a teacher. He talks like it. He coaches like it. I imagine that style would really pi$$ off some players after a while.
And I don't buy that Murphy was a huge loss and would have made a difference. He's not a 'Follow me boys and I will show you the way' type of leader.
"Growth" not used once. "Grow" used twice.
We had 2 (Pagan and MM) sacked both of em.
We had 2 (Pagan and MM) sacked both of em.
I would have sacked them three time just to make sure.....Ratten got unlucky and probably was the only coach to have the playing list onside regardless of the results...
Totally agree, but who? I'd like it to be a Carlton person, someone who could coach and possesses some mongrel.
It's always amazed me how Carlton can take highly experienced and successful AFL coaches, Premiership coaches no less, and turn them into hacks in a few short years.
And what of our players, are they so lacking in discipline and team ethic and so thoroughly spoiled that these successful coaches can't cut through with them, or do they rebel against them because they are lazy and comfortable and can't be bothered with the challenge?
I would have sacked them three time just to make sure.....Ratten got unlucky and probably was the only coach to have the playing list onside regardless of the results...
Ask Jarrad Waite how he got on with Ratts.
Ask Jarrad Waite how he got on with Ratts.
Most of the playing list onside..... :P
Seriously though, Leigh Matthews made the point a couple of years ago (which I agree with) that sometimes too much is made of the senior coach's importance.
I can think of one or two past players, but agree. Should be a Carlton man
Ratts probably got the sh1ts with him because he was a dumb f4ck - if he wasn't injured, he was suspended or having a bad hair day. Malthouse blasted him as well.
His best was elite, but playing at that level 5% of the time doesn't cut it.
Agree. Point is, every coach would have players not on the same page as him for a host of reasons.
Waite didn't play too many bad games in his time at Carlton, his biggest problem was that he was injury prone so he struggled to get a consistent run at it.
Nothing's changed at North but his current coach seems happy with him.
Name one coach who has won a flag in the past 10 years with his original club. The last were Roos and Worsfold in 2005 and 2006. Hardwick, Beveridge, Clarkson, Scott, Malthouse and Longmire all played with different clubs to the ones they coached to a premiership. Think also Parkin, Matthews, Sheedy, et. al. Bringing in a ‘Carlton man’ is folly.
Waite didn't play too many bad games in his time at Carlton, his biggest problem was that he was injury prone so he struggled to get a consistent run at it.
Nothing's changed at North but his current coach seems happy with him.
Agree. Point is, every coach would have players not on the same page as him for a host of reasons.
My recollection is that he was inconsistent, and infuriatingly so.
My recollection is that he was inconsistent, and infuriatingly so.
A lot of older players were not happy with Ratt's including TBird and a few others, they were the tail trying to wag the dog.
In the end those players got the kibosh as well, it is best to remember that!
It's always amazed me how Carlton can take highly experienced and successful AFL coaches, Premiership coaches no less, and turn them into hacks in a few short years.
And what of our players, are they so lacking in discipline and team ethic and so thoroughly spoiled that these successful coaches can't cut through with them, or do they rebel against them because they are lazy and comfortable and can't be bothered with the challenge?
Yet people blame Malthouse for doing the same thing in regards to Laidler.
Our forward line was poor last night, but the delivery to it was almost criminal. How were we going to take big pack marks in those conditions? Unbelievable! Had they looked to open the forward line and find a leading target, we still would have lost, but maybe not quite so badly.
At the moment we bomb the ball in and have no structure to stop the ball coming out. For that matter, we get very few crumbing goals. We usually just turn the ball over.
Remember those photos of SOS and Bolts sitting is the stands at Round 22/23 taking notes of players while Barker was in charge? This is what he was looking at:
Backs
Sam Rowe Michael Jamison Sam Docherty
H/Backs
Matthew Dick Zach Tuohy Kade Simpson
C
Jason Tutt Ed Curnow Blaine Boekhorst
H/Forwards
Troy Menzel Tom Bell Chris Yarran
Forwards
Andrew Walker Matthew Watson Andrejs Everitt
Rucks
Matthew Kreuzer Patrick Cripps David Ellard
Int
Dylan Buckley Mark Whiley Cameron Wood
SUB
Bradley Walsh
I feel far more confident with our current list than with at least 12 of these players. (2 very good servants have retired)
Not hard to see what SOS and Bolts were writing down.
(2 best for us in the 80+ pt beating? Curnow and Cripps...half backs for GWS. Marchbank and Plowman)
Rewatch the game.
Have a look at our guys when we have the ball in our half forward line... Specifically watch the "forwards"
You might see one of them make a lead. If Jack is in the forward line you will see some movement out of him, but the rest...
You wanna know why we bomb the ball in forward, it's because that's what our forwards are demanding with their ridiculous stationary, lazy @rse play.
The reason our forwards are the worst in the league is because they are lazy, and they don't work.
Rewatch the game.
Have a look at our guys when we have the ball in our half forward line... Specifically watch the "forwards"
You might see one of them make a lead. If Jack is in the forward line you will see some movement out of him, but the rest...
You wanna know why we bomb the ball in forward, it's because that's what our forwards are demanding with their ridiculous stationary, lazy @rse play.
The reason our forwards are the worst in the league is because they are lazy, and they don't work.
Rewatch the game.
Have a look at our guys when we have the ball in our half forward line... Specifically watch the "forwards"
You might see one of them make a lead. If Jack is in the forward line you will see some movement out of him, but the rest...
You wanna know why we bomb the ball in forward, it's because that's what our forwards are demanding with their ridiculous stationary, lazy @rse play.
The reason our forwards are the worst in the league is because they are lazy, and they don't work.
Can't agree with this.
The mids and backs, if they actually win the ball, usualy fluff arounde with the ball laterally for so long that the opposition floods back and there simply isn't the space to lead once theball finally moves inside 50....
Pretty simple - good sides move the ball forward quickly - much more often than not - so that their forwards can compete on a level pegging.
If multiple people lead, then that creates even more space for others to lead into.
God forbid someone might actually follow up a lead with a second lead.
Just heard on radio news that Murphy is out for "several weeks"
Not sure if that's accurate or Not, but I'm getting a bit glum about our shrinking list of available players.
Please help CFC football gods. We have repented our sins. ;)
That was being intimated yesterday LN.
I couldn't really give 2 stuffs about how long the ball takes to get up the ground. Sure, quick ball movement makes it easier, but the forward still have to work, possibly harder.
How many times in the last few weeks have we actually been on a fast break for a midfielder to have to pull up or pass the ball laterally because there was no one in front of him to pass it to?
The forwards need to work hard. If one bloke leads, he will create space where he was prior to the lead. That space is an opportunity for another forward to lead into.
If multiple people lead, then that creates even more space for others to lead into.
God forbid someone might actually follow up a lead with a second lead.
Therein lies your problem....fix the mids (that includes onballers, flankers and wingers) and the forward line will be fine.....I repeat, you can't lead into space when there is no space! Simple really.
If you reckon speed of ball movement isn't the critical 'missing' factor.... good luck!
You create space by drawing defenders with repeat leads in the appropriate direction at the appropriate time, not by all too often standing in the forward pocket behind the defense calling for the long high ball and jogging behind the defense as they run out of the scoring zone!
God forbid someone might actually follow up a lead with a second lead.
And God forbid someone might actually hit a leading forward on the chest.
Lance Whitnall...fat and slow and no knees but he could teach our forwards a thing or two about finding space.
Absolutely. And how to attack the ball.
If they don't hit you then you go again though, not sulk!
...and the drive thru. :-[
On Saturday night you just stood the mark because your team mate had kicked it straight down your opponent's throat.
I think that it all started when we rookied Carrazzo, he normalised turnovers at the CFC and by the time he retired we'd grown to accept them as standard procedure.
????????????????
Carrazzo is Italian for turnover!
????????????????
Carrazzo is Italian for turnover! Perhaps a little unfair, I think the rot started with blokes like Scott freeborn and Darren HULME
Someone at the club who shall remain nameless but who was in a position of responsibility at the time once told me that we were getting a gun across from South Australia by the name of Scott Freeborn.
Hulme and Franchina both played 100+ games, in more recent times Armfield played 140 and Casboult is about to notch up 100.
Good luck to them, but it sums up our plight.
I was a big fan of Darren Hulme, didnt matter the size of the opponent he would take them on and loved a contest, we could do with a few Hulmes in our lineup...
Scott Freeborn was a handy player much like his brother Glenn who was a premiership hero for North but was a erratic kick...got the pubes from memory and that was the end of him at AFL level...
Hulme was never going to win a B+F, but you knew what he was going to give you every week. As you said, we need a few solid types like him.
For the love of God no!
No more Hulmes, Wiggos, Armies, Benticks, Josephs or any other battlers who butcher the ball as a matter of habit.