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Topic: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL (Read 24001 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #30 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
One hand? One finger. Port Adelaide in 2008.

See i have a problem with this vein of thinking.  There are things that Matthew has in his game that makes you happy to have him every week, just we dont see it all game every game.  Most likely due to him having had his injury woes.

The second efforts, the blocking his ability to link up in play all of it is good we just wish it would happen more frequently.

Chris Yarran is roughly the same in his ability to impact a game.  He makes you go wow sometimes and other times is a complete non event.

Gibbs too.

Its all a bit of soft target bashing anyway as you would find more players that have had fewer dominant games in their age group with the inverse largely being the exception and not the rule.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #31 –
Sorry Thry but Yarran has influenced way more games than Kreuzer from where I sit. Problem with Kreuzer is the things he is good at doing aren't the things we need him to do like great ruckwork, overhead marking etc. He's great (for a big man) when the ball hits the deck but that's not what we need him for. The amount of times we'v kicked the ball long to him on the wing this year and he's failed to even get his hands to the ball is extremely concerning. This is the type of stuff we need him to be good at.

I agree with Gibbs he too has failed to take a game by the scruff of the neck (though we've seen it a few times this year briefly).
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #32 –
Carrotts, I will agree to disagree with you.

I dont believe that either of them have influenced as many games as anyone thinks.  Its always the usual suspects leading us to victory and that has been my major knock on this football club for a long time now.

You have to remember, Kreuzer can win his position, but if our midfield gets smashed he appears to have had a bad game. Yarran doesnt even have to win his direct battle to be considered as having taken a game by the scruff of the neck.

Personally, I dont really care much for individuals taking our teams to victory, as I think that this is what has bothered me about our side since the turn of the century.  We used to have good teams, now we have good players, and this is the first time where it seems as though its the unit doing the work.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #33 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
What are the positives? I don't see one.

I know you don't see any. I've tried pointing it out to you all year and you still don't see it.

In reference to your last comments...
The positives are that we can have a list cleanout and basically still keep our best 22. Hence, no rebuild required.

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #34 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Sorry Thry but Yarran has influenced way more games than Kreuzer from where I sit. Problem with Kreuzer is the things he is good at doing aren't the things we need him to do like great ruckwork, overhead marking etc. He's great (for a big man) when the ball hits the deck but that's not what we need him for. The amount of times we'v kicked the ball long to him on the wing this year and he's failed to even get his hands to the ball is extremely concerning. This is the type of stuff we need him to be good at.

I agree with Gibbs he too has failed to take a game by the scruff of the neck (though we've seen it a few times this year briefly).

I'm with you Carrots. Special K has been a non event this year. Done nothing more than an average AFL ruckman.

If he's carrying an injury well fair enough but for a 25 yo #1 draft pick he is falling a long way short of the mark.

At least when Yarran turns up everyone knows it.... (not that its a competition between the two of them).

Gibbs has been even more ineffectual imo.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #35 –
Wow. the more I read, the more I learn Special-K is only an average AFL ruckman. I know very little, but I gather each club has 2 ruckmen and maybe 3 as an average. Lets say 2.5 average per club. Let me just do some math at the moment. 2.5 x 16 = 40 ruckmen. That would have Special-K as an average ruckman around 19th to 20th in the league. Wow. 20th ??? That would show 19 ruckmen in the league at minimum better than he is. At least 20 because some clubs have a 3rd or even 4th potential player being developed that doesn't get too many games in a season. Cox, Mummy, Sandilands could be considered definite better players without too much argument. I would really like to know the other 17 ruckmen better than Kreuzer.

I'll think about it but it will be a struggle to find the last 7 or 8 better than what we have. Especially considering my opinion is he ranks top 6 in his defensive game versus other rucks. Top 6 in his 2nd and 3rd efforts and one percenters. Its hard to see him 19 rucks behind in average disposals. Would there be 19 other rucks averaging more tackles than he does. The we have hitouts, marks, and goals kicked. He probably is way behind on these three statistics. I still find how he is way down the list. Not saying things to stir the pot and he probably really is that bad. Just didn't believe it myself ever. Its lucky I read so many posts to get my head straight. Found it odd but can't argue when so many feel the same way.

This being the case we seriously need to take him off the untouchable list and offer him as a trade. Warnock and Hampson can handle the ruck role as we already have 2 average AFL rucks. No point in keeping a 3rd. What we were thinking when we drafted him is beyond me. We could have had Cotchin, who is an elite mid who nearly won the Brownlow medal. Unfortunately Gary on Footy Classified showd how Cotchin has his statistics way down on last year. Way down in every stat. Tackles, marks, disposals, goals, and is behind in stats to his other team-mates playing in the middle of the ground.

He better not be behind Grigg, as we let him walk without any effort. Footy is a funny sport I guess. Recruit in rubbish and trade out your stars. ;D
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #36 –
Rolling out a few stats means little......

How many times has Kreuzer had a real influence on the outcome of a game this season.

I'm not talking about his 'potential', just his output this year.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #37 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Rolling out a few stats means little......

How many times has Kreuzer had a real influence on the outcome of a game this season.

I'm not talking about his 'potential', just his output this year.

Forget about this season what about during his career?
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #38 –
I wont roll out stats, I think you just have to look at how he polls in the "jim park medal" thread.

Realistically that seems a better indication of how valuable a contributer he has been, where people put him amongst the best 5 players.

There are very few players in the AFL that can single handedly turn a game of football.

Quote
Progressives:
1827 - Walker, Andrew (0)
1717 - Judd, Chris (0)
1525 - Henderson, Lachie (0)
1441 - Garlett, Jeff (0)
1126 - McLean, Brock (0)
1017 - Murphy, Marc (0)
977 - Gibbs, Bryce (0)
865 - Waite, Jarrad (0)
749 - Kreuzer, Matthew (0)
704 - Simpson, Kade (0)
698 - Jamison, Michael (0)
626 - Yarran, Chris (0)
500 - Armfield, Dennis (0)
375 - Warnock, Robert (0)
317 - Cachia, Jarryd (0)
304 - Robinson, Mitch (0)
303 - Scotland, Heath (0)
273 - Tuohy, Zac (0)
206 - White, Simon (0)
189 - Lucas, Kane (0)
182 - Carrazzo, Andrew (0)
178 - Betts, Eddie (0)
150 - Curnow, Edward (0)
80 - Hampson, Shaun (0)
62 - Casboult, Levi (0)
15 - Bell, Tom (0)
14 - Rowe, Sam (0)
6 - Ellard, David (0)
5 - Menzel, Troy (0)
4 - Buckley, Dylan (0)
3 - Duigan, Nicholas (0)

This season, Kreuzer has had an inffluence (according to the mixed opinions that we see on here) in games of football.  These might not have translated into wins but he has had a decent year, and we all agree there is more that he could be giving us.  Lets not forget he has missed games through injury too.  The important part to remember, that his relief staff have all had very limited ratings by comparison, with Robert Warnock coming closest given the games played vs votes achieved scenario.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: 2013 - the year our best players went AWOL

Reply #39 –
I think Kreuzer gets given more time due to his high draft pick status and potential and hope that goes along with that. I think when we say he's no star, if he was a third rounder we'd be happy with what he's producing but certain expectations come with a #1 draft pick and unfortunately he's yet to get anywhere near that.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!