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Re: Back to Forward

Reply #15 –
I don't think it matters as much who is up forward and who is down back, barring the odd specific contest.
What is more important is that the players understand where they should be running to based on where the ball is and who has possession. Carlton's formations are awful, those in the packs or running off half back have to search for options quickly, our opponents have a structure and know where their players will be running to.

We resort so often to mongrel punts forward (I don't know what the percentage was against Collingwood, but I can't remember a dry weather game with more mongrel punts into our forward 50) which inevitably come flying back with interest.
Goals for 2017
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Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
When they all answer that their best position leaves us without a balanced squad, then what do you do?

I doubt any man in the team will pick forward or back pocket, nor inside midfielder tagger either.

For sure not one of them would want to be a CHF or FF at our club the way the ball is delivered laces out every week.

There is much more to managing a team of individuals than drawing names on a piece of paper and saying now go out there an play football.

The part we are doing wrong, is the kick the ball to our teamates advantage anyway.

This isn't kindergarten football, these "men" know the deal and where they are best suited to establish a career!

Playing them in shizen positions while we look for something better just delays or breaks the development of good players. Like playing Cripps forward while we try to find a 2nd or 3rd tall that works!

So play the 1st choice players in their 1st choice positions, where they play best, then fill the holes with whoever isn't the first choice and who is prepared to have a crack!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #17 –
Quote from: LP – on
This isn't kindergarten football, these "men" know the deal and where they are best suited to establish a career!

Playing them in shizen positions while we look for something better just delays or breaks the development of good players. Like playing Cripps forward while we try to find a 2nd or 3rd tall that works!

So play the 1st choice players in their 1st choice positions, where they play best, then fill the holes with whoever isn't the first choice and who is prepared to have a crack!

Agree with this approach. If we persist in playing guys in roles they cannot play at their best in or do not like playing then the result is demotivation and disillusionment. Whenever in my working career I found myself in a role I didn't want I asked for a move. Eventually, if I didn't get that move, I moved on.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #18 –
Quote from: LP – on
This isn't kindergarten football, these "men" know the deal and where they are best suited to establish a career!

Playing them in shizen positions while we look for something better just delays or breaks the development of good players. Like playing Cripps forward while we try to find a 2nd or 3rd tall that works!

So play the 1st choice players in their 1st choice positions, where they play best, then fill the holes with whoever isn't the first choice and who is prepared to have a crack!

Yes, this isnt kindergarten football, this is the level where 22 individuals playing football on the same page will achieve more, than 22 individuals which is what you guys seem to be overly focussed on.

Our issues are a lack of team first mentality, which then becomes players getting caught with the footy (as people are focussing on me, rather than we) and the ball being delivered to contests, because why even care whether or not you kick it to your mates advantage, rather than just kicking it in his vicinity?

The game is simple.  Hit targets = good footy.  Collingwood showed us, all you have to do is compete hard, and then deliver the ball to advantage, and any opposition will soon be left powerless to stop you.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Yes, this isnt kindergarten football, this is the level where 22 individuals playing football on the same page will achieve more, than 22 individuals which is what you guys seem to be overly focussed on.

Our issues are a lack of team first mentality, which then becomes players getting caught with the footy (as people are focussing on me, rather than we) and the ball being delivered to contests, because why even care whether or not you kick it to your mates advantage, rather than just kicking it in his vicinity?

The game is simple.  Hit targets = good footy.  Collingwood showed us, all you have to do is compete hard, and then deliver the ball to advantage, and any opposition will soon be left powerless to stop you.

It's complicated a bit by a lack of execution and skill.
That's not always because players aren't doing the team thing and making it easier for teammates.
When players under no pressure turn the ball over that's not so much a team thing.
It's not a team thing when your key forwards miss easy goals more often than they kick them.

I just find it bizarre that the only time I feel confident about one of our guys kicking a goal is when Tuohy, a player who plays back most of time, drifts forward and gets a handpass around the 50 metre mark.

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #20 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
I don't think it matters as much who is up forward and who is down back, barring the odd specific contest.
What is more important is that the players understand where they should be running to based on where the ball is and who has possession. Carlton's formations are awful, those in the packs or running off half back have to search for options quickly, our opponents have a structure and know where their players will be running to.

This! The ball goes into our forward line and at best it's 2 tall forwards both going for it in amongst a cluster of defenders. Or best strategy is a fast small forwards running into the 50 which has now been picked apart.

It goes down the other end and it's all one on ones all with lots of space around them.

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Lods – on
F: Buckley, Jamison, Walker
HF: Yarran, Rowe ,Tuohy

The funny thing about that is, that backline is probably a better kick than our forward line!  :-\

What happened to the days that if you could kick, you were a forward. If you could not, you were a back.

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #22 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
The funny thing about that is, that backline is probably a better kick than our forward line!  :-\

What happened to the days that if you could kick, you were a forward. If you could not, you were a back.

Turn overs kill.

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #23 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Turn overs kill.

Yes they do.

Have a look at our clearances, specifically centre clearances. We win that every week. We just can't convert on the scoreboard.

If we get the ball out of the centre more than the opposition. Kick goals when we do. We win the game regardless of what happens down back. ;)

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Yes, this isnt kindergarten football, this is the level where 22 individuals playing football on the same page will achieve more, than 22 individuals which is what you guys seem to be overly focussed on.

Our issues are a lack of team first mentality, which then becomes players getting caught with the footy (as people are focussing on me, rather than we) and the ball being delivered to contests, because why even care whether or not you kick it to your mates advantage, rather than just kicking it in his vicinity?

The game is simple.  Hit targets = good footy.  Collingwood showed us, all you have to do is compete hard, and then deliver the ball to advantage, and any opposition will soon be left powerless to stop you.

You still have to beat your opponent, and your best chance of doing that is when you are playing in the position where you perform the best! Not filling a hole in position that you are unfamiliar with!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #25 –
Quote from: LP – on
You still have to beat your opponent, and your best chance of doing that is when you are playing in the position where you perform the best! Not filling a hole in position that you are unfamiliar with!
ahh, but what happens if you can learn another position and be better suited to it?

From memory Silvagni started a full forward too.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
ahh, but what happens if you can learn another position and be better suited to it?

From memory Silvagni started a full forward too.

That's where the recruting and development should play a part; we should be able to assess what role a player is best suited to and work his butt off until he can play that role well.  Of course, in the Hawthorn model, every player has to know and be able to play the role of any other player.

Silvagni was a ruck rover.  Unless you mean SOS; I have a feeling that he played wing and/or halfback.  The speccy he took when he did his knee was at halfback if I remember correctly  :-\
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #27 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Yes they do.

Have a look at our clearances, specifically centre clearances. We win that every week. We just can't convert on the scoreboard.

If we get the ball out of the centre more than the opposition. Kick goals when we do. We win the game regardless of what happens down back. ;)

Our clearances aren't translating to I50s though. It could be that opposition are allowing us clearances and attacking the receiving player as Geelong were a few years ago.
 

Re: Back to Forward

Reply #28 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Our clearances aren't translating to I50s though. It could be that opposition are allowing us clearances and attacking the receiving player as Geelong were a few years ago.

Our clearances aren't translating into very much at all  :(  We seem to turn the ball over with a rushed kick or because there is no-one forward of the ball.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!