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Topic: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy (Read 60729 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #60 –
Quote from: Brettie – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Brettie – on
Yep - said Jamo was done just 2 weeks ago & geez, he was defended admirably by some for reasons I still don't know. Just another cog in this broken wheel of ours.

Notice Curnow was listed in our best.....he had a crack, I'll give him that, but his direct opponent was Cooney = FAIL. Cachia's direct opponent was Griffen = FAIL. Tuohy's direct opponent for a lot of the day was Grant = FAIL. Warnock = FAIL. Walker = FAIL. Murphy = FAIL. Gibbs = FAIL. Armfield = FAIL. Henderson = FAIL (although the kicking to our forwards was abysmal....again). Waite = FAIL. Garlett = FAIL. Betts = FAIL. Menzel = FAIL. Simmo = FAIL. Rowe = FAIL. Yarran butchers the ball by foot = FAIL.

Bootsma gets spared as his spoiling was exceptional, as was his field kicking, although one horrific missed tackle nearly earned him a FAIL. Juddy, McLean & Scotland = Pass.


Brettie....Bootsma had Grant didnt he and got spanked..then went to Jones and had another goal kicked on him but he did do better after half time and the kid his best.

But seriously we got beat by the likes of Jarryd Garnt, Will Young, Tory Dickson, Jason Tutt. ???...Grant hasnt played a decent 4 quarter game in his life, just shows how much commitment our blokes had tonight..... er I forgot...Mark Austen ...yep that superstar...thats how bad we are going, well beat by nondescripts and our own ex duds....

Dont stop at 10 players cut Mick ...go for 12-15....get some who care and have some pride.

Gibbs started on Grant EB1, Bootsma was on him for maybe a few mins, but that was about it.......Grant had a revolving door of Carlton players on him throughout the game. Bootsma spent most of the game on Jones & did a fairly good job.

Brettie...My apologies then to Bootmsa if he had Jones for most of the game becuase he would have been one of our few winners in thats case.....and the blowtorch needs to be applied to Gibbs if had Grant intially...both his defending and disposal was very ordinary IMO and I remain dissapointed in Gibbs ability to get to the next level.

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #61 –
Perhaps it is harsh for MM to be pointing a finger, but having said that Ratten had the players back and what good did that do him or the club?

Something has to change, and I do not think it is necessarily in the coaching or administration staff. I mentioned in another thread, there appears to be a clique that exists between certain Carlton players. To me that means a lack of unity!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #62 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Quote from: Lappinlappystick – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Quote from: Lappinlappystick – on
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.

Mazza!

 >:(

How are the Bummers going these days LL?

I think they're still in the 8. Why do you ask?

Ah! They've got their own very special way of achieving that haven't they?

Couldn't give a flick. More worried about our ensemble and how dishevelled they are.

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #63 –
Well, that sucked.

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #64 –
Quote from: IvanAwfulbigone – on
Quote from: TheSheik – on
Is it true that our fans booed Murphy & Waite to such an extent that Waite flipped them the bird ??

Murph, Waite, and Hendo all received bronx cheers late in the game. I suspect Hendo's (after taking the mark) was more a result of the ball actually being delivered to him in an acceptable manner. Didn't see Waite flip our supporters the bird. If he did it could have been to anyone - he's an angry, angry young man.

Watched Murphy closely today given he's been copping it from all and sundry. What struck me most was his total lack of awareness and confidence when he's required to run the other way. No idea where to position himself and is usually caught betwixt and between - half heartedly running towards the opposition player with the ball but then seemingly changing his mind and peeling off to try and cover someone else downfield. He's outta sorts big time.

I saw Waitey flip the bird but he was on the opposite side of the ground and I have no idea which supporters it was aimed at.

As far as being an angry young man - he's not that young anymore but the way he was running at players late in the game I thought another holiday was on the cards - the only thing that saved him was he couldn't catch anything today.

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #65 –
screwing glad I put money on the dogs

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #66 –
Never sure it was about coaching so much but the attitude and workrate of the players. Other than the odd moment of   the last 11 years it been an ingrained problem since 2002. With the players we do have we should do alot better. This is what MM has inherited and that's sometimes harder to fix than a lack of talent. He did it once at the Pies, hopefully he can do it again. Ratts coached well  enough but that workrate and attitude problem reared itself last year again.

Now it's MM's turn to see if he can sort it. When he makes list changes he can look at the players who's attitude and workrate is poor as much as those who he's thinks aren't going to cut it. No good had talent if you're adverse to the idea of gut running and doing the basics, Parko did this in his first year back in 1991. We lost the last 8 of the year that year so he cleaned the list out of not only those who weren't going to cut it but those who wouldn't work hard enough either. In the end he got the type of team he wanted and eventually won a flag.

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #67 –
Last night the Doggies culture beat our culture. Their discipline beat our limp discipline. Their blokes knew what to do ...our blokes were confused and afraid. And that confuses me. A coach who understands war should be able to instil courage into his troops. But no, our blokes are hesitant, afraid and non instinctual.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #68 –
Quote from: Baggers2013 – on
Last night the Doggies culture beat our culture. Their discipline beat our limp discipline. Their blokes knew what to do ...our blokes were confused and afraid. And that confuses me. A coach who understands war should be able to instil courage into his troops. But no, our blokes are hesitant, afraid and non instinctual.

So nothing to do with the coach, the plan or the MC.?
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #69 –
Maybe we should have a good look at how the game is played in general. Take in how the rules effect the type of players we put on the park compared with the better teams.
The game I feel has changed even since 2011. The Freo game highlighted this. Brute strength is a necessity. The rules now suit a bigger bodied player. Correct disposal of the ball when tackled seems to no longer exist. I didn't know there was a rule change as I was of the belief that a player when tackled must dispose of the ball either by handball or a kick. With less frees awarded and the pursuit of letting the game flow this rule has just about disappeared.
Bomber Thompson stated when he arrived at bummerland that they needed to get bigger, and we all know how they went about it, but they did alter their structure game day this year with less smalls. They no longer have Monfreis, lonegan reimers Davey, Jedda, Melsham Windelich Dempsey Stanton, Zacofwhatever playing together at any given time, not that they all ever did. but their ratio of similar types has altered.
We have a lot of smalls and with the game and rules as they are, it is little wonder we don't run out games or play consistently for four quarters. We just physically cannot and the rules or should I say lack of won't allow it especially against better teams.
I have noticed our players struggle to retard the opposition, especially in close whereas our boys when tackled are easily retarded.
There will always be a need for nifty clever smalls but I wonder if our balance of talls, smalls and bigger bodied players is outer kilter with the better teams and should we recruit and field teams accordingly. 

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #70 –
Quote from: IvanAwfulbigone – on
Watched Murphy closely today given he's been copping it from all and sundry. What struck me most was his total lack of awareness and confidence when he's required to run the other way. No idea where to position himself and is usually caught betwixt and between - half heartedly running towards the opposition player with the ball but then seemingly changing his mind and peeling off to try and cover someone else downfield. He's outta sorts big time.
What I saw today was the whole team having no idea.  They all seem totally confused with what is expected and what they are meant to do.  They look down the line and its totally manned, inboard is free but must be under instruction to hit the line, because we always kick to the wrong option.  There is a lot of uncertainty in the game plan and in the players future (rightly or wrongly), and this is the result.  Personally I see a team showing signs that they have no confidence in the game plan which was meant to be "proven" and "tested".  It was 3 years ago.
Excuses year 1, blame year 2, contract extention year 3........

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #71 –
Quote from: laj – on
Never sure it was about coaching so much but the attitude and workrate of the players. Other than the odd moment of   the last 11 years it been an ingrained problem since 2002. With the players we do have we should do alot better. This is what MM has inherited and that's sometimes harder to fix than a lack of talent. He did it once at the Pies, hopefully he can do it again. Ratts coached well  enough but that workrate and attitude problem reared itself last year again.

Now it's MM's turn to see if he can sort it. When he makes list changes he can look at the players who's attitude and workrate is poor as much as those who he's thinks aren't going to cut it. No good had talent if you're adverse to the idea of gut running and doing the basics, Parko did this in his first year back in 1991. We lost the last 8 of the year that year so he cleaned the list out of not only those who weren't going to cut it but those who wouldn't work hard enough either. In the end he got the type of team he wanted and eventually won a flag.

Great post Laj.
The only thing I can add is that the development and/or recruiting has not been up to scratch. There seems to be a significant gap between our best 15 or so players onwards. In a newspaper report David King (I think) pointed out that our lack of talent from players under 23 is staggering.
I am finally in Sheik's corner and believe we need to make some hard calls. The problem is will we be able to recruit players better than the ones we have and how long will it take to rebuild? The other thing is do we need to change our recruiting and development departments? Based on what I have seen, it needs a serious review (again).
Carlton now, have to forget about short term gain and once again build a team for the future.  >:(
Forget about attacking MM, we are now stuck with him for a while and he deserves the chance to rebuild this team.

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #72 –
Quote from: billybloggs – on
Maybe we should have a good look at how the game is played in general. Take in how the rules effect the type of players we put on the park compared with the better teams.
The game I feel has changed even since 2011. The Freo game highlighted this. Brute strength is a necessity. The rules now suit a bigger bodied player. Correct disposal of the ball when tackled seems to no longer exist. I didn't know there was a rule change as I was of the belief that a player when tackled must dispose of the ball either by handball or a kick. With less frees awarded and the pursuit of letting the game flow this rule has just about disappeared.
Bomber Thompson stated when he arrived at bummerland that they needed to get bigger, and we all know how they went about it, but they did alter their structure game day this year with less smalls. They no longer have Monfreis, lonegan reimers Davey, Jedda, Melsham Windelich Dempsey Stanton, Zacofwhatever playing together at any given time, not that they all ever did. but their ratio of similar types has altered.
We have a lot of smalls and with the game and rules as they are, it is little wonder we don't run out games or play consistently for four quarters. We just physically cannot and the rules or should I say lack of won't allow it especially against better teams.
I have noticed our players struggle to retard the opposition, especially in close whereas our boys when tackled are easily retarded.
There will always be a need for nifty clever smalls but I wonder if our balance of talls, smalls and bigger bodied players is outer kilter with the better teams and should we recruit and field teams accordingly.
Monfries kicked 7 against the CATS!
2025... Moir of the same to come

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #73 –
Quote from: cimm1979 – on
Quote from: Baggers2013 – on
Last night the Doggies culture beat our culture. Their discipline beat our limp discipline. Their blokes knew what to do ...our blokes were confused and afraid. And that confuses me. A coach who understands war should be able to instil courage into his troops. But no, our blokes are hesitant, afraid and non instinctual.

So nothing to do with the coach, the plan or the MC.?

they played footy in a similar style to ours 2 years ago - an instinctive running game with fast linking by hand, breaking lines easily.

Re: Rnd 20- Carlton v Bulldogs -Post Match Autopsy

Reply #74 –
Quote from: LP – on
Madden could take marks forward and back. Tackle and hurt opponents physically, and with his goal kicking. His tap work compared to Warnock was sublime!
I even saw Madden run and bounce once! :D

Harry gave Tuck the best backhander you've ever seen in the first 10 minutes of the '87 Grand Final, a backhander from Warnock is an oxymoron.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.