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Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #945 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I find the Nazi references a bit of hysteria.

Trump's life experiences and the causes for the formation of his opinions are nothing like Adolf Hitler's.

The situation in Germany during Hitler's rise are nothing like the current situation in the USA.

You can draw parallel's with some of the oratory... but the Storm-troopers won't be marching into Mexico or Canada any time soon....in fact Trump is more likely to take America into an isolationist role....and that may be our greatest concern with this Presidency should it eventuate.

The basic system of Government there is "checks and balances" between the executive, legislative and judicial structure. Even in a situation where one party controls all three it is unlikely that these checks and balances wouldn't apply. In fact the greatest opposition for Trump may come from within his own party.

The principles and causes are similar - it's more a question of degree. We await now to see whether the underlying social and economic problems get addressed effectively. If they don't then what may happen next is extremely uncertain. Bear in mind that this is only the beginning of the story - it has a very long way to play out yet.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #947 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
We await now to see whether the underlying social and economic problems get addressed effectively. If they don't then what may happen next is extremely uncertain. Bear in mind that this is only the beginning of the story - it has a very long way to play out yet.

If they don't he'll be out on his ear in 4 years....that's how democracy (not fascism ) works.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #948 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
The principles and causes are similar - it's more a question of degree. We await now to see whether the underlying social and economic problems get addressed effectively. If they don't then what may happen next is extremely uncertain. Bear in mind that this is only the beginning of the story - it has a very long way to play out yet.

Hmmmm. Having a German father and having being born there and lived there many years, I think you are drawing a VERY long bow. The situations were totally different.

My German grandmother took many years to open up and talk about life under Hitler. She was a teenager when he took the reins. The look in her eye and hushed tone talking about that son of a whore. I'll never forget it. Ever. Utter betrayal. Crushing disbelief.

You have to remember that the hyper inflation and utterly brutal conditions set by the Treaty of Versailles meant that Germans, including the average punter, were screwed. There was no way back. Hitler, prior to going off the rails got people jobs, created a healthy manufacturing industry, built up autobahns, tremendous advances were made by the sheer fact that he gave people the hope to say No to austerity,roll up their sleeves and have pride in their country again. It's what he did to the Jews, gay community, gypsies, disabled...Jesus Christ, my Grandmother had friends disappear overnight. It was only much later she said, that people truly learnt of what the Nazis we're doing. She said to me "if you opened your mouth and asked too many questions...well you went missing as well". In conditions like that........

Anyway, yes, Trump sells hope, but don't compare a war ravaged country with crippling austerity measures set by foreign powers next to the elitism of the 21st century. Big difference. The elite just realised they went too far, especially the Republicans machine who thought they could belittle Trump and that people would see though him. Well he can't be bought and promised to "drain the swamp'. In a country where wage growth has stagnated for 30 years and sportstars earn obscene money compared to the average person, even emergency services and armed forces....well I can see how a protest vote could be attractive.

Would Bernie have beaten Trump? Pundits were convinced that he would have, but then again they were wrong about this final result.

I'd hate to be one of pundits in his party, or elsewhere for that matter, who bad mouthing and/or white anted him. I'd bet he doesn't hold grudges well....

Keep the Faith

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #949 –
Order has been restored, 325,000,000 morons now have a moron as their President. Finally... ::)
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #950 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I find the Nazi references a bit of hysteria.

Trump's life experiences and the causes for the formation of his opinions are nothing like Adolf Hitler's.

The situation in Germany during Hitler's rise are nothing like the current situation in the USA.

You can draw parallel's with some of the oratory... but the Storm-troopers won't be marching into Mexico or Canada any time soon....in fact Trump is more likely to take America into an isolationist role....and that may be our greatest concern with this Presidency should it eventuate.

The basic system of Government there is "checks and balances" between the executive, legislative and judicial structure. Even in a situation where one party controls all three it is unlikely that these checks and balances wouldn't apply. In fact the greatest opposition for Trump may come from within his own party.

I see plenty of parallel's.....failed businessman, failed artist, no political education but plenty of non logical political opinions, phobia's with certain racial /religious groups..... lets make america great again as a slogan.
Some quotes from an article comparing the two from the Sydney Morning Herald recently..
Hitler saw himself as singularly endowed to avert Armageddon and reach national greatness. For Hitler, there was no middle ground between the "total downfall" threatening Germany at the hands of a Jewish-Bolshevik world conspiracy and his vision of a renewed German glory - a vision of an instant "leap from despair to utopia," as historian Fritz Stern put it. Trump, too, posits a pending American cataclysm that can be averted only through his election, which will lead directly to reclaimed greatness.
They both share the " I alone" can save my country attitude......do agree though that the checks and balances of the system will prevent any extreme megalomaniac behaviour becoming a reality..
As in the 1930s, voters were invited into Wonderland, and the desperate ones felt the urge to go....Hitler didnt need stormtroopers to get voted in and neither did Trump....the people fell hook line and sinker for another messiah...

Hilary the one with the political education and qualifications in terms of political experience was ignored in favour of a bloke whose only success was a TV show show where he spent most of his time  firing people....could only happen in America....

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #951 –
Quote from: Lods – on
If they don't he'll be out on his ear in 4 years....that's how democracy (not fascism ) works.

Sure, but you've made one big assumption - that democracy will be in play?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #952 –
Where's  my credit for tipping this?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #954 –
............and we thought that appointing an old fool like Malthouse was a mistake, and that's only sport!!!

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #955 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

Hilary the one with the political education and qualifications in terms of political experience was ignored in favour of a bloke whose only success was a TV show show where he spent most of his time  firing people....could only happen in America....

Hillary was scuppered by her association with the establishment elites, wall street, the military/industrial groupings and hard ass neocons. The Democrats lost touch with traditional working roots and values and have paid dearly for it. She was also preaching to the converted about the glass ceiling and other stuff the average guy who as lost his job and his house could not give a fat rat's clacker about.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #956 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Where's  my credit for tipping this?

Credit from me. I don't like her but I thought she'd win - I didn't realise what things in the US are like generally but there were a few clues on show in NYC when I was there recently.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #957 –
@Woody

Greatly appreciate your comments Woody. However, I fear we may be on the cusp of massive changes in the world and I'm filled with a lot of uncertainty. I hope to God you are right.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #959 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Where's  my credit for tipping this?

You also predicted that Mick would be good for the club and that GWS would win the flag. That looks like a deficit to me.