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Topic: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn (Read 25485 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #30 –
At this stage Jones IS part of our future whether we like it or not.
He is contracted until the end of 2017, and has shown a fair bit more than either Jaksch or Everett in the last few  games.
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #31 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
At this stage Jones IS part of our future whether we like it or not.
He is contracted until the end of 2017, and has shown a fair bit more than either Jaksch or Everett in the last few  games.

He's currently on the books until end 2017, sure, but whether he's got a strategic role to play in our future is another debate. "A fair bit more than Jaksch or Everitt" is not saying that much but if he gets selected for a few games this year and does well, then maybe he will stay around. I wish him well.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #32 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
At this stage Jones IS part of our future whether we like it or not.
He is contracted until the end of 2017, and has shown a fair bit more than either Jaksch or Everett in the last few  games.

Nope don't agree - showing more then 2 very average players is not enough.

For us to improve and get closer to better preforming teams, Jones, Tutt and co cant be considered. Simplky as that! Replacements must be trailed and trailed to the point where there is a clear understanding as to where this player sits  - and no better time to do it then the last games of this season IMO.

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #33 –
Quote from: laj – on
They did it a couple of times earlier on when we were winning. No coincidence both Kreuzer and Casboult played easily their best footy in role they were suited and we played well too. I like Phillips but two ruckmen doesn't often work for us, especially when we're left with just one key forward. Phillips doesn't often do that much and Kreuzer's effectiveness is cut in half when he has to share. Seen that for years now. Not sure why it takes our match committee so long to see that. That did for a few matches when Phillips got injured and we did well.

At worst 2 key forwards and 2 rucks where Casboult can then get up the ground and clunk some marks rather than being stuck deeper forward as our one out key forward against the heat of multiple defenders.

Not true about Krooz and Casboult effectiveness without Phillips.

Phillips is showing exactly why they are getting games into him.

1) Bolton wants two rucks to play.
2) Phillips is rate of improvement is very good.

However, I would agree I think we need another marking target forward. Why they won't do it is a mystery to me but I've given up doubting.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #34 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
At this stage Jones IS part of our future whether we like it or not.
He is contracted until the end of 2017, and has shown a fair bit more than either Jaksch or Everett in the last few  games.

Jones at his best is an AFL standard key forward and they are very hard to come by.

Like many others, I wasn't happy with his recruitment and wrote him off after he failed to make any impact in his first season with us.  However, he has shown a lot more this year and he's not the complete spud I thought he was.  What I like about Jones is that if he doesn't take the mark, he brings the ball to ground - together with a few opponents.  He is rarely out marked.  He is also an on field leader, at VFL level at least.

I don't think Jones will be part of our long term future.  In fact, without being unkind, I hope that he's not part of our long term future.  He is part of our immediate future and, if he can maintain the effort he is showing in the VFL, deserves a place in the 22 for the Hawthorn game.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #35 –
Difficult to carry all of Kreuzer, Phillips, Casboult and Jones when they don't get big numbers and their impact can be quite low. MK can impact games with minimal possessions but you can't have these big blokes doing very little and not getting their hands on the ball often enough.

I think Phillips has earnt the right to stay in the team, and think next yera he will have surpassed Kreuzer as our no.1 ruckman on a full-time basis.

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #36 –
Quote from: Pratty – on
Difficult to carry all of Kreuzer, Phillips, Casboult and Jones when they don't get big numbers and their impact can be quite low. MK can impact games with minimal possessions but you can't have these big blokes doing very little and not getting their hands on the ball often enough.

I think Phillips has earnt the right to stay in the team, and think next yera he will have surpassed Kreuzer as our no.1 ruckman on a full-time basis.

That's true; at least two of them have to be clunking marks and kicking goals.

I can't see Phillips getting past Kreuzer.  He is more than adequate but a very different type of ruckman.  Perhaps Korcheck will be Kreuzer's replacement.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #37 –
Kreuz is pretty handy around the clearances atm since we are down on big inside mids. If we improve in that area next year then the Phillips type, marking more around the ground and in F50, may well become our preferred model
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #38 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Kreuz is pretty handy around the clearances atm since we are down on big inside mids. If we improve in that area next year then the Phillips type, marking more around the ground and in F50, may well become our preferred model

Can't see that happening myself.  Phillips has potential and he occasionally clunks marks but he's not as good as Kreuzer as a tap ruckman and is inconsistent with his work around the ground.

I suspect that our next number one ruckman isn't on our primary list.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #39 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Can't see that happening myself.  Phillips has potential and he occasionally clunks marks but he's not as good as Kreuzer as a tap ruckman and is inconsistent with his work around the ground.

I suspect that our next number one ruckman isn't on our primary list.

It really depends on how Phillips progresses. I think he has shown some good signs already and could well develop a lot further but we'll have to wait and hope I guess. He's still young (just 25) for a ruckman.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #40 –
Quote from: cimm1979 – on
However, I would agree I think we need another marking target forward. Why they won't do it is a mystery to me but I've given up doubting.

Because opposition teams can run off all of our tall forward options at will.
Casboult has the turning circle of a Kenworth, Everitt wouldn't know what a tackle was, Jones runs around like he means business but he's laid 8 tackles in 5 games this season and the less said about Jaksch the better.
Kreuzer isn't a key forward by any stretch but at least the opposition know he's around.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #41 –
One change:

C Curnow out

Lovechild Everitt   in

Emergencies
13 Jed Lamb
14 Liam Jones
24 Mark Whiley

Lamb did SFA last week in the NBs!!

Liam Jones, very stiff!!!

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #42 –
You could just tell how Everitt's performances over the past 2 weeks in the magoos were being pumped up that we were being softened for his return. Well, his opponent for Saturday will finish the game without a mark on him and with good stats. Love to be wrong but can't see this delicate little flower hardening up for an encounter against the Dawks... be up to his team mates to do the hard stuff and they probably know that. Playing as loose as he does means he'll probably snag a couple.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #43 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Because opposition teams can run off all of our tall forward options at will.
Casboult has the turning circle of a Kenworth, Everitt wouldn't know what a tackle was, Jones runs around like he means business but he's laid 8 tackles in 5 games this season and the less said about Jaksch the better.
Kreuzer isn't a key forward by any stretch but at least the opposition know he's around.

6 from 7 with two key forwards, zero from 10 without.

Re: Rd 19: Pre Game Prayers: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #44 –
Everitt needs to pull his finger out. No bigger stage than against the hawks....albeit in tassie.