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Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #45 –
Quote from: jeza – on
It costs Americans around $2m to execute someone I think.

The legal process is exhaustive - to try to ensure they're not killing the wrong person.

Not saying we shouldn't do it but I am saying it's not like it's much cheaper... unfortunately. Police should have put the bullets between his eyes rather than the arm maybe.

It does cost a bit to execute, that's true, but it costs us an average of $292 a day to house a prisoner. On say a 25 year sentence which would be on the lower end of what these guys will spend in prison, that's $2,664,500. Plus factor in the increase in costs between now and that 25 year mark, we're probably closer to $3.5 million.

I do think however the death penalty should only be used in cases where there is no chance that anyone else committed the crime. Guys like this CBD scumbag where police caught him in the act. You get convicted, maybe 1 chance to appeal, then bye bye Jimmy.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #46 –
If you saw yesterday's edition of The Project, you will see exactly where the blame lies and the retired Bail Justice pulled no punches.

Kennett closed too many mental health care facilities to reap the rewards of housing developments.

Now the Magistrates and Justices have nowhere to put the mentally ill when they run off the rails. Plus they are pressurized by the government to grant bail because jails are overflowing. Which means many criminals and mentally ill just walk out of the door!

Meanwhile, we blow up millions of dollars in fireworks several times a year and continually subsidise horse, car and motorbike races.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #47 –
Quote from: LP – on
If you saw yesterday's edition of The Project, you will see exactly where the blame lies and the retired Bail Justice pulled no punches.

Kennett closed too many mental health care facilities to reap the rewards of housing developments.

Now the Magistrates and Justices have nowhere to put the mentally ill when they run off the rails. Plus they are pressurized by the government to grant bail because jails are overflowing. Which means many criminals and mentally ill just walk out of the door!

Meanwhile, we blow up millions of dollars in fireworks several times a year and continually subsidise horse, car and motorbike races.
The bold bit is it for me. Its a disgrace when you think about it.
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #48 –
Quote from: Navy Maven – on
It does cost a bit to execute, that's true, but it costs us an average of $292 a day to house a prisoner. On say a 25 year sentence which would be on the lower end of what these guys will spend in prison, that's $2,664,500. Plus factor in the increase in costs between now and that 25 year mark, we're probably closer to $3.5 million.

I do think however the death penalty should only be used in cases where there is no chance that anyone else committed the crime. Guys like this CBD scumbag where police caught him in the act. You get convicted, maybe 1 chance to appeal, then bye bye Jimmy.

The other thing you would hope the death penalty would bring is some added deterrent, assuming they are capable of some degree of rational thinking.
The Ox is slow but I'm running out of patience.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #49 –
Unfortunately it has pretty well been proven that the death penalty is not a deterrent, as:

 - a drug/alcohol addled person isn't thinking about consequences
 - a planned murder often has an element of the perp thinking they won't get caught
 - a multi murder (eg US school shooting) has no element of rationality behind it and the person killing doesn't care.

the number of innocent people on death row, depending on whose stats you read, is actually bigger than you may expect (between 5&10%, I think - may need to do some research to freshen the numbers)

There are too many variations for a black and white solution eg what if the person isn't 100% and doesn't understand what they have done is wrong?

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #50 –
Quote from: Sexybronco – on
The other thing you would hope the death penalty would bring is some added deterrent, assuming they are capable of some degree of rational thinking.

All the death penalty does is satisfy society's desire to seek revenge......
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #51 –
Agree with tonyo and dodge. Education, proper values and genuine support for those that need it are key. You know, the stuff that actually requires effort and being knowledgable and educated and on the same page.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #52 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
All the death penalty does is satisfy society's desire to seek revenge......

Some might say it satisfies society's need for justice....Benjamin Franklin wrote:

“Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.”


Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #53 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Agree with tonyo and dodge. Education, proper values and genuine support for those that need it are key. You know, the stuff that actually requires effort and being knowledgable and educated and on the same page.
Pauly could you please elaborate, Im not sure I follow. Education, proper values and support for who?
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #54 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
All the death penalty does is satisfy society's desire to seek revenge......
And in the mean time, "the nice guys come last" again.
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #55 –
I expect the legal process will address issues of competence v insanity and intent v accidental (or forced by another for fear of one's life). Which ever way the cards fall, he's guilty and will be charged and locked away. Extenuating circumstances (if there are any) will, as I understand it, impacts only 'for how long'. He killed 5 people and injured many others.
It doesn't get more culpable.
Like others have said, his life inside may be shortened at the hands of others who are, well, serial immoralists.... Perhaps the system will right the wrongs.

Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #56 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
All the death penalty does is satisfy society's desire to seek revenge......


No. . . . . The death penalty also PUNISHES the perpetrator.

I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #57 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on

No. . . . . The death penalty also PUNISHES the perpetrator.

The death penalty does nothing to deter people who commit these sorts of crimes - all it does it let them go out in a blaze of "in-glory" and then some other whacko reads about it and says "hey that was cool - I'd like to try that!". 

If the death penalty worked so well, the places in the world that still allow it shouldn't have any murders?

Perhaps we should be tackling the crap that makes them murderers in the first place......
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #58 –
The cop should have put a few extra bullets in him.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #59 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Some might say it satisfies society's need for justice....Benjamin Franklin wrote:

“Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.”

I think the problem is EB1 the minute you have a death penalty the money people think they will save from not having long term imprisoned is actually consumed many times over by legal appeals.

Also, the death penalty promotes violent confrontations between police and desperate criminals, which is why many police are against it.

I think the solution is to bring back the asylums, seriously kit out the police force to deal with these sorts of situations, and setup some sensible preventative measures. But the politicians won't because it costs money. In the meantime, the Lord Major will keep complaining about the lack of police and security in the CBD while he blows up another few $million in fireworks. The money spent on those fireworks could fit vehicle, pedestrian barriers or bollards at most critical CBD or Suburban locations in the state.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"