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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1935 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
No Probs LP, I was just pointing out its a bit of a common misconception about countries like Russia and China that they are stuck being in the dark ages. The politics is old school but the lifestyles for many are not too different to ours.



Aint that the truth, EB1 Old Son.

Sad really that the leadership of both Russia and China is so contrary to the people and culture. I have had many, many dealings with both Chinese and Russian people, rich and poor, and they're bloody rippers. In the backwoods of China and Russia you'll find some folks well behind the times, but peaceful. The worst 'backwoods' people I've ever encountered have been in the US, and they're, generally speaking, bloody scary.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1936 –
More evidence pointing to the shady Chinese regime and their cover up of Covid, at least the WHO finally look like
doing their job and stop being puppets of Beijing .
https://au.yahoo.com/news/china-accused-silencing-families-wuhan-virus-victims-who-investigation-021556798.html
Human rights lawyer Francis Boyle and his thoughts on the pandemics origins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s56zAchvk3w

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1937 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
More evidence pointing to the shady Chinese regime and their cover up of Covid, at least the WHO finally look like
doing their job and stop being puppets of Beijing .
https://au.yahoo.com/news/china-accused-silencing-families-wuhan-virus-victims-who-investigation-021556798.html
Human rights lawyer Francis Boyle and his thoughts on the pandemics origins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s56zAchvk3w
I think that is quite old @ElwoodBlues1‍, that interview was March or April last year. You have to keep in mind India is effectively in a border war with China, so it's motivated to guild the lily just a little! ;)

That is not to say that China hasn't been shady, it's clear from the science side that China knew of the virus long long before it announced it to the world, they had already sequenced the viral genome and released the data just a handful of days after being asked for data. A process that typically takes months and months to get right. Their eagerness to boast about their scientific prowess exposed the lie!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1938 –
Quote from: LP – on
I think that is quite old @ElwoodBlues1‍, that interview was March or April last year. You have to keep in mind India is effectively in a border war with China, so it's motivated to guild the lily just a little! ;)

That is not to say that China hasn't been shady, it's clear from the science side that China knew of the virus long long before it announced it to the world, they had already sequenced the viral genome and released the data just a handful of days after being asked for data. A process that typically takes months and months to get right. Their eagerness to boast about their scientific prowess exposed the lie!
https://au.news.yahoo.com/who-investigator-to-probe-wuhan-institute-virology-221207951.html
I guess the virology staff at the Wuhan lab will be on holiday when the WHO come a calling, be interesting to find out if indeed the staff had CoVid symptoms before the pandemic was unleashed on the world stage.
Chief virologist Shi Zhengli at the lab, often dubbed ‘Bat Woman’, previously told the BBC she would welcome a fair investigation at the lab, however her comments were quickly withdrawn by concerned officials.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1939 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
https://au.news.yahoo.com/who-investigator-to-probe-wuhan-institute-virology-221207951.html
I guess the virology staff at the Wuhan lab will be on holiday when the WHO come a calling, be interesting to find out if indeed the staff had CoVid symptoms before the pandemic was unleashed on the world stage.
Chief virologist Shi Zhengli at the lab, often dubbed ‘Bat Woman’, previously told the BBC she would welcome a fair investigation at the lab, however her comments were quickly withdrawn by concerned officials.
Is she the lass that has since disappeared?
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
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2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1940 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Is she the lass that has since disappeared?
Think she did go missing for a bit last year but popped up on TV in China a bit later, there was talk of her defecting to the West.
She probably had a friendly pep talk with some lovely people  from the State Security Ministry who convinced her to go back to the bat cave and resume the party line protocol...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1941 –
Very VERY good EB :) :)

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1942 –
Just to put a modicum of balance to this argument about bio weapons.

The media we are all quoting lie to us as much as China would and would happily tell us the sort of crap we all want to hear or believe to keep us under their control.

Any report about a bat woman and bio weapon coming from them can't be trusted.  That's how you avoid confirmation bias from clouding your judgement.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1943 –
For those of you concerned by the various reports of various vaccine efficacy from 96% to 60% or less, know that efficacy as measured and reported is a very grey area, it's not a cut-off figure it's a gradient.

A vaccine that reduces symptoms can be just as effective as one that prevent infection, but how that is reported varies across global regions, and from study to study. For example, it could well be the case the Pfizer(96%) and Oxford(66%) vaccines are equally effective if reported under the same regime.

For example a vaccine might be reported as 50% efficacious because half the treated people still get infected, but it might be 100% effective at preventing acute symptoms. But how that is reported depends on the type of study and where it was conducted.

I asked a question of a researcher at CSIRO. What level of effectiveness makes a vaccine worthwhile? They replied they accept anything above 50% as being a very functional vaccine, apparently many of the seasonal shots we get can be as low as 30% efficacious, but that doesn't mean they do not still diminish an infections symptoms.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1944 –
I think you want a vaccine that prevents infection thus limiting spread and also reduces the severity of symptoms. Can't see the point if it's not real effective at both.
The Chinese vaccine is old tech making it easier to make and store like I said before.
It might be appealing to 3rd world nations or poorer countries but you wouldn't get too many Western residents wanting to be jabbed with anything China were peddling.
If you ran a poll on this site, I reckon you wouldn't get one person wanting the Chinese version...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1945 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I think you want a vaccine that prevents infection thus limiting spread and also reduces the severity of symptoms. Can't see the point if it's not real effective at both.
That is not the case @ElwoodBlues1‍, many highly effective vaccines do not prevent infection.

For example the Hooping Cough vaccine doesn't prevent infection, but it 100% eliminates symptoms, which is why some anti-vaxers are so negligent when all they do is ask everybody else to get vaccinated and not vaccinate their own child!

FWIW, vaccines work one of two ways, they can provide an antibody response, so that generally prevents infections, or they can make the immune system T-Cells aware of proteins on the target virus or bacteria and cause the T-Cells to kill off the infection before it does harm. The T-Cell version does not stop you getting an infection, in fact T-Cells do nothing until the infection is in your system, but can be so effective at eliminating the symptoms and effects that people do not even know they have been infected.

Of all the vaccines you ever had the functional split is about 50/50, which will surprise a lot of people.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1946 –
Quote from: LP – on
That is not the case @ElwoodBlues1‍, many highly effective vaccines do not prevent infection.

For example the Hooping Cough vaccine doesn't prevent infection, but it 100% eliminates symptoms, which is why some anti-vaxers are so negligent when all they do is ask everybody else to get vaccinated and not vaccinate their own child!

FWIW, vaccines work one of two ways, they can provide an antibody response, so that generally prevents infections, or they can make the immune system T-Cells aware of proteins on the target virus or bacteria and cause the T-Cells to kill off the infection before it does harm. The T-Cell version does not to to stop you getting an infection, in fact T-Cells do nothing until the infection is in your system, but can be so effective at eliminating the symptoms and effects that you do not even know they have been infected. Of all the vaccines you ever had the functional split is about 50/50, which will surprise a lot of people.
Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you getting infected too. The latter is known as “sterilising immunity”. With sterilising immunity, the virus can't even gain a toehold in the body because the immune system stops the virus entering cells and replicating.
Source: The conversation.com
I understand that most vaccines dont prevent infection but I was speaking in an ideal case...
I'm not a virologist just a simple elec engineer but getting to theme of my comments and thats the Chinese vaccine vs the others and I'm not sure you can return to normal in the big picture with one offering 50% effectiveness and others offering 90-95%.
Would you allow Brazilians, Indonesians, etc who have had the Chinese vaccine into Australia or allow them to travel without normal quarantine procedures?
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1947 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you getting infected too. The latter is known as “sterilising immunity”. With sterilising immunity, the virus can't even gain a toehold in the body because the immune system stops the virus entering cells and replicating.
Source: The conversation.com
I understand that most vaccines dont prevent infection but I was speaking in an ideal case...
I'm not a virologist just a simple elec engineer but getting to theme of my comments and thats the Chinese vaccine vs the others and I'm not sure you can return to normal in the big picture with one offering 50% effectiveness and others offering 90-95%.
Would you allow Brazilians, Indonesians, etc who have had the Chinese vaccine into Australia or allow them to travel without normal quarantine procedures?
I agree about infection prevention being the gold standard.

I suspect detection of an immune response will be a test, how you get it makes little difference once you've got it, but how you get it is
important in other respects. Likely this will be the $0.10c per test style drop of blood on an indicator stick test that are currently being developed for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies.

A little known fact and one obviously absent in some debates, particularly for all those promoting herd immunity through ignorance, and absent at those anti-vaxer infection parties, is that viral mutation is accelerated by the human immune system. So letting people get infected as a way of creating herd immunity is downright dangerous, as it increases the number of viral variants in circulation.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1948 –
I'd be curious to know the country of manufacture of the standard injections Australian adults and kids receive - annual flu shot, measles, chickenpox etc.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #1949 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I'd be curious to know the country of manufacture of the standard injections Australian adults and kids receive - annual flu shot, measles, chickenpox etc.

@PaulP .... GSK Pharmaceuticals.  Based in MEL and SYD

https://au.gsk.com/en-au/contact-us/