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Topic: CV and mad panic behaviour (Read 887323 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2370 –
Most people would see those numbers and go for the Pfizer if they had a choice. I don't know enough about the difference between 76% and 95% efficacy in the real world. Maybe it's a lot, but I suspect it isn't.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2371 –
It's interesting to see the keen interest in manufacturer and efficacy rates of the covid vaccines compared to others. I'm guessing most people have never given a second thought to the flu shot they get every year. I'm guessing most people just think of it as the "flu shot", get the jab and go on their way.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2372 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Not in terms of clotting, but in terms of effectiveness there were early numbers that suggested Pfizer was much more effective than AZ.

All that aside.... all yourself a simple question, why are the politicians getting something different to what the public are getting.
What possible reasons could there be behind it?

Come up with a list and tell me how many legitimate reasons that are not money and/or effectiveness related.
The politicians aren't selectively getting one or the other, it depends on where you are as there is only limited supply of both vaccines. ;)

Some people OS have already had one of each.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2373 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
It's interesting to see the keen interest in manufacturer and efficacy rates of the covid vaccines compared to others. I'm guessing most people have never given a second thought to the flu shot they get every year. I'm guessing most people just think of it as the "flu shot", get the jab and go on their way.
The problem is, nearly all vaccines are very effective at stopping severe cases of whatever disease they target.

The numbers regarding prevention of transmission aren't really available which makes the high efficacy reported by the mRNA vaccines a bit questionable, but Modena and Pfizer refuse to publish the trial data or analysis methods, so nobody can question their claim ............ as yet.

In the vaccine industry there is a bit of push back, a lot of traditional companies like Merck and GSK refused to go down the route of mRNA vaccines, they have huge investments in conventional established (some say ancient) technologies. But of the vaccine technologies only mRNA is likely to deliver you a pill that cures a cancer, so I think people will sit up and take a serious look at this technology now. One of the long term goals of mRNA is to do a genetic test of your illness, and make you a one off private vaccine to cure your illness.

For me there is a big question about why our government is only going down the route of the AstraZeneca adenovirus methodology. I know part of the polticis about this is helping the 3rd world nations, if they aren't cured we aren't cured, and Pfizer and Moderna just do not work for the 3rd world. However, if mRNA technology takes off the local AstraZeneca investment could be redundant before it's even covered the original deposit!

An even more exciting prospect, is a peptide type vaccine in a tablet, one for Influenza is already in trials in the UK. Interestingly, the same team led by Sarah Gilbert at Oxford researches both, as well as a nasal spray, maybe that is a tell! This will never be an option for Pfizer or Moderna, .......................... am I exposing a motive for the public slanging match we see before us? A game of survival!

PS; Guess where they are also trialling such novel vaccines for Zika virus, ...................... Sth Africa ...... did someone say politics, ......... no! ;)

PS - PS; AstraZeneca and the much boosted J&J use the same technology, adenovirus based vaccines, the next version of AstraZeneca will also be single shot like J&J.

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2374 –
Interesting post LP. Thanks.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2375 –
When it comes to the efficacy reported by the various vaccine makers, doesn't it depend on how comparable the testing pools for the vaccines might be?

I haven't followed it very closely, so I'm not professing to have the answers. I have a fuzzy recollection that the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines were tested earlier than the others and that means they were largely tested before the South African & British variants took root. On the other hand, AZ was tested in South Africa and their variant is by far the most challenging one.  Could differences in the pools have influenced the reported efficacy of vaccines?  

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2376 –
Quote from: Mav – on
When it comes to the efficacy reported by the various vaccine makers, doesn't it depend on how comparable the testing pools for the vaccines might be?

I haven't followed it very closely, so I'm not professing to have the answers. I have a fuzzy recollection that the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines were tested earlier than the others and that means they were largely tested before the South African & British variants took root. On the other hand, AZ was tested in South Africa and their variant is by far the most challenging one.  Could differences in the pools have influenced the reported efficacy of vaccines? 
@Mav‍  We do not get to answer it because Pfizer and Moderna won't release the data, it could be they excluded certain groups from the cohort study as part of the trial setup. At this stage we will never know about those figures, ............. until we know retrospectively months or years later.

I have no problem with companies making some profit from this, in fact perhaps it makes sense for them to be required by law to sell it above cost as the survival of those companies stops us being dependant on China. I don't read anybody writing for us to wait for the SinoVac vaccine who have now jumped on board with Merck and GSK! :o
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2379 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
If the AstraZ was the only vaccine I would take it just like I get the flu shot every year.  My problem is there is a better vaccine for important people and the budget one for the cattle class.
X100, we don't need to be rushed into the inferior vaccine in our situation, why not wait?
Would you buy the 1st model in a new range of cars or wait for the next model with the improvements/fixes? .
Problem is we have committed to 50 Mill doses via CSL, how much will it take to get out of that deal?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2380 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Perhaps it simply is correlation with the end of winter in the northern hemisphere.  Lets not confuse correlation with causation shall we?

The downward trend in infections is worldwide Thry, not just the northern hemisphere.  But you’re right, the end of the northern hemisphere winter could be a factor. 

It will be some time before we know (a) whether it’s a trend or a speed bump and (b) if it is a trend, what’s behind it.

Fingers crossed that it will be good news 🤞
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2381 –
Djc, I was being cheeky and highlighting how that argument is rolled out very quickly except when it suits.

Speaking honestly, I think as we cut into autumn spring we should see a slight fall before a kick up south of the equator and a fall north of it, because the science shows the virus is transmissible for less time in the sun.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2382 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Arent there mulitple flu vaccines also (some better than others)?

Yes, and older folk like me get the good one ... and for nothing  :)
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2383 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Djc, I was being cheeky and highlighting how that argument is rolled out very quickly except when it suits.

Speaking honestly, I think as we cut into autumn spring we should see a slight fall before a kick up south of the equator and a fall north of it, because the science shows the virus is transmissible for less time in the sun.

I think you’re probably right Thry ... and that’s a good reason to be concerned about our vaccination program falling well behind the target 🤔
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2384 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Arent there mulitple flu vaccines also (some better than others)?

https://www.tga.gov.au/alert/2020-seasonal-influenza-vaccines

Sorry Nando. I misread your question earlier.

My wife gets one every year, and neither she nor anyone she knows (or I know) have ever asked for a specific brand / variant. Is this a thing ? Can you ask your GP / chemist etc. for a particular one ?