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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5145 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
190 staff have left the ED at a large inner Melb hospital in the last 18 months, wards are full and vaxed patients with side effects are
clogging up ED's and taking up resources. If numbers ever reach the modelling figures of 2000 cases the hospital system will collapse in Melbourne.
Real world data isnt so real, you need to speak to the staff at the hospitals to get the real picture...
I'd probably prefer real world data. The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it usually comes from a small sample. For instance, if you listen to anti-vax or vaccine-sceptical health workers, you'll probably get a pretty skewed version of reality. Vaccine mandates are the way to go, even if some health workers will fall by the wayside. But I'd be happy for the Govt. to throw some money into raising staffing levels.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5146 –
Quote from: Mav – on
I'd probably prefer real world data. The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it usually comes from a small sample..................................

I agree. There's a logical fallacy simply called the Anecdotal Fallacy, which is a very common technique used in argumentation. I favour the collection of both anecdotal and real world data, and I suspect this is what more frequently happens.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5147 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
190 staff have left the ED at a large inner Melb hospital in the last 18 months, wards are full and vaxed patients with side effects are
clogging up ED's and taking up resources. If numbers ever reach the modelling figures of 2000 cases the hospital system will collapse in Melbourne.
Real world data isnt so real, you need to speak to the staff at the hospitals to get the real picture...

Frightening @ElwoodBlues1 ... so glad I'm well out of that chaos.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5148 –
Quote from: Micky0 – on
Shawny, real question - where do you get your news from? Is it Herald Sun? Just curious, because you and Capcom and Madboyblue all have this real visceral hatred of Dan and seem to find this whole epidemic and lockdowns, to be his personal fault.

The protests over the past week are being hashtagged #murdochriots because the language and actually one of the banners took its comment straight off the Herald Sun.

I know many people don’t believe Andrews is doing a good job, but I want to know what is it you’d prefer him to do? If the HS was reporting this as they do NSW, I wonder if you’d feel differently?

It’s a genuine curiosity I have.

He spoke about the 4,000 icu beds in today’s presser. Basically that it takes time to train up and recruit that many nurses to be skilled enough to run 4,000 beds. but that also we wouldnt want to have 1,000 ICU beds full let alone 4,000.

I’m not saying he hasn’t lied, every politician lies.

But I see him as genuinely hard working and trying his best, with 100% blowback but most media in this State plus our inept Fed Gov.

So you disagree that the 800 dead from
Last year were from FEDERALLY RUN aged care? STATE RUN aged care came through with I think 20 deaths, not sure on that.

How can it be Dan’s fault? How come he doesn’t get a gold star from you for the state run aged care coming thru unscathed, yet you point the finger at him For the deaths in fed run? Honestly that makes no sense to me.

Do you know other countries are going in and out of lockdown all the time? Singapore has gone back into one recently. There is no quick fix unfortunately.

Do you have equal hatred of Jeroem, Foley and Sutton? Or do you believe the diCTAtor dAN theory in that he is the one making every decision regardless of what others say? And he is doing so to keep everyone miserable?

I think Australia and other island nations are in such a unique position, we all could’ve squashed Covid snd been free communities. How come you’re not pointing the finger at the feds to say why was a quarantine station not built in March 2020
In the middle of this massive country, to take in overseas travelers? Why was it left to the states to repurpose hotels in the middle of the city? That just makes no sense. Yet someone scumo is not getting grilled over this very basic thing he could’ve arranged early on, and we’d all be free to live our lives. No Covid spread.

Please also stop with the Dan stuffed quarantine by not having the AFD. that is a Sky News rhetoric and Peta had all the evidence to bring down the Andrews government one year ago - yet, here we all sit.

I think you’re a good person that is suffering or your children are, it is frustrating, it feels never ending. But we will get there ☮️



My children are severely suffering mate as is the majority of states when you live in the most locked up place on earth. I do sincerely appreciate your reply as you are genuine but obviously we are sitting on different sides of the fence and view things accordingly.

This man is a stone faced liar which as you rightly point out all political figures are but his lies were done under oath where he was asked to respond to the process in place that ultimately lead to the death of 700 plus Victorian’s so they are on a completely different level to the standard daily lies pollies make. This very point is enough for him to never ever be allowed to hold a place in power again.
He stubbornly refused to follow the rest of the country quarantine set up that whatever way you want to interpret it resulting in hundreds of lives that would have been spared like they were in every other state that did it differently.
He then promised 4000 icu beds which was only said to take some pressure of him yet when it came down to it he never delivered one extra bed. Not one!  The nurse number not being able to service those beds argument is tied into him as well - of course he didn’t think of that part as he original promise was not thought out as he says what he needs to at the time to get thru rather then coming up with thought out practical polices that may actually help. The poor nurses are overworked and like ambos are severely underpaid and he has done nothing - absolutely nothing to assist them at all. Yet funny thing is he didn’t miss the opportunity to give himself a pay rise did he? He is the last person that needed that rise and the audacity to take it speaks volumes of his ego and power trip he is on. He is accountable to no one which is a utter disgrace.

He locked up kids playgrounds ffs when we had 20 odd cases based on advise and re opened them when we had 200 cases. Incompetent and nonsensical decisions are consistent under his reign such as the utter stupidity of restricting the movements of citizens that are already on their knees to 5km increments. All for his control as from a health perspective there is no sense in that rule at all.
These are facts that can’t be disputed and as such he should not be leading the state and imo should be on manslaughter charges the same way in my business if my negligence caused the death of one employee let alone 700 plus I would be held accountable. Amnesia would not provide me the get out of jail card that he was afforded the luxury of using.

Disgraceful and criminal.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5149 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Frightening @ElwoodBlues1 ... so glad I'm well out of that chaos.
It is Cap, the system is stretched and propped up by agency nurses, however when a specialty nurse is required ie Cardiac..often it will just be an RN without that specialty training who is sent to fill in that shift/s so the standard of care drops.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5150 –
All the health recommendations are based on case track and trace, the count isn't the primary driving factor.

Once cases are identified and quarantined, rules can change, but it's the mystery cases, protests and deliberate wilful disobedience that keeps the ground shifting on the health regulators.

It's interesting to hear nothing from the radical right who have been using Gladys Burythemall's freedom template as a basis for calling Victoria's Dan to account, mostly via Murdoch's Peta (Frankenstein's Bride) Credlin. So what happens today, Gladys cancels the NSW promises and falls into line with federal health recommendations for the higher vaccination target before freedoms can apply. Why, because her terrific numbers excluded much of regional NSW, now the truth appears, Sydney CBD was vaccinated at the expense of the rest of the state, and now the cases have headed for a country holiday!

So now the targets for NSW and Vic are almost identical. Credlin will still be calling for Vic to re-open at the same time as NSW, ignoring that the Vic vaccination rate is lagging primarily due to the Fed bias in distribution of vaccines. Gladys still claims it's because NSW does a better job, better at being thieves is probably the best analogy, second only to being better at screwing over the rural constituency!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5151 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Which government funds aged care in Victoria?  Federal.  Which government is charged with running them?  State.  My "hatred'?  Way too kind a word.  The pr1ck has an excuse for everything.

Wrong!

The State Government runs some aged care facilities.  The vast majority are private sector or not for profits but all are the responsibility of the Federal Government. 

Interestingly, the facilities run by the State Government had the lowest COVID infection/fatality rates.

If you're going to criticise the State Government, it's probably a good idea to get your facts right. 

The current "leader" of the Victorian Libs was a minister in my department and I find it hard to characterise his performance/integrity without resorting to profanity.  Let's just say that if he was the Premier now, the scale of the clusterfeck would enormous.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5152 –
Thanks for answering Shawny, I appreciate it. I’m so sorry your kids are really hurting.

You’re right I suppose where you sit now is how you view it - besides loss of doing what we want my family has maintained our life pretty much in terms of work. My kids are ok remote learning and otherwise are ok.

I disagree on the lies you’ve attributed to Dan and view him as a strong leader. But understand that due to your circumstances you see it differently.

I hope Covid screws off for all our sakes.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5153 –
The Doherty Institute is not the government.  It is an independent research body with some of the smartest, most knowledgeable people in the country working on the COVID pandemic.  I like to read their updates because I know that they are based on the best science and they shine a light at the end of the tunnel.

For example:
Quote
... once we achieve 70%-80% vaccination we will see less transmission of COVID-19 and fewer people with severe illness, and therefore fewer hospitalisations and deaths. COVID-19 won’t go away but it will be easier to control in the future. These estimates come from the modelling work completed to date led by the Doherty Institute and commissioned by the Commonwealth Government to advise on the National Plan to transition Australia's National COVID-19 Response

This level of vaccination will make it easier to live with the virus, as we do with other viruses such as the flu. However, it won’t be possible to maintain a situation where there are no cases at all. The focus will shift to keeping the number of people going to hospital and dying at a minimum.

In an average year of influenza, we would roughly have 600 deaths and 200,000 cases in Australia. Any death is a tragedy, but our health system can cope with this. In the COVID-19 modelling, opening up at 70% vaccine coverage of the adult population with partial public health measures, we predict 385,983 symptomatic cases and 1,457 deaths over six months. With optimal public health measures (and no lockdowns), this can be significantly reduced to 2,737 infections and 13 deaths.

We’ve learned from watching countries that have removed all restrictions that there is no ‘freedom day’. We will need to keep some public health measures in place – test, trace, isolate and quarantine – to keep the reproduction number below 1, but as vaccination rates increase, we’ll be able to ease up further and it is unlikely that we will need generalised lockdowns.

Once we reach 70% vaccine coverage, opening up at tens or hundreds of cases nationally per day is possible, however, we will need vigilant public health interventions with higher case loads.
https://www.doherty.edu.au/news-events/news/statement-on-the-doherty-institute-modelling

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5154 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The Doherty Institute is not the government.  It is an independent research body with some of the smartest, most knowledgeable people in the country working on the COVID pandemic.  I like to read their updates because I know that they are based on the best science and they shine a light at the end of the tunnel.
This little bit of is something that isn't spoken about enough.
Quote
We’ve learned from watching countries that have removed all restrictions that there is no ‘freedom day’. We will need to keep some public health measures in place – test, trace, isolate and quarantine – to keep the reproduction number below 1, but as vaccination rates increase, we’ll be able to ease up further and it is unlikely that we will need generalised lockdowns.
This truth is pretty much completely ignored by mainstream media and most political commentary.

When I read some of the comments here it is clear some believe in the concept of "Freedom Day", which is an ironic term given letting it run loose at moderate vaccination dates results in the ultimate removal of freedom for some people, death!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5155 –
https://www.doherty.edu.au/uploads/content_doc/DOHERTY_MODELLING_INTERIM_REPORT_TO_NATIONAL_CABINET_17TH_SEPTEMBER_2021.pdf
For those who want a look into the future........cant see lockdowns being lifted to any great extent even at 70%.
Hope those high seeding figures never happen and the knuckleheads in the community show some common sense and continue safe practices .
Remembering Victoria has about 800 ICU beds and NSW has a few more.
Gladys has been telling some more porkies too claiming that NSW can get that up to 2000 quickly....
AMA vice president Chris Moy, has accused the Berejiklian government and health authorities of being “flippant” in insisting the New South Wales health system can expand its intensive care capacity to 2,000 beds, warning that if it is able to source enough staff to care for that many patients, hospitals would be in a state of “catastrophe”.
Moy is talking about home care for some less ill CoVid patients with GP's and visiting nurses providing that care including equipment being installed in patient homes.
Moy believes GPs are the “missing link” in NSW’s Covid surge contingencies, and said that without them alleviating hospital workers, “I don’t know where staff to care for 2,000 ICU patients would come from”.
Good luck with getting GP's to fill in the gaps, State governments should have thought more about training more ICU nurses and paying them properly.
Promising beds you cant deliver is one thing but forgetting about providing trained staff is another...and for the record its 12 months to train an ICU Nurse and not every Nurse
has the ability so you have to get the best to be putting their hand up for the role.

He also believes highly skilled nurses who have recently left ICUs to work in the state’s Covid vaccine clinics will need to be recalled to intensive care units if a surge in serious coronavirus hospitalisations eventuates.
ER and ICU Nurses wont like that given they get paid more jabbing CoVid vaccines into arms and get to go home at a normal time.


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5156 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
https://www.doherty.edu.au/uploads/content_doc/DOHERTY_MODELLING_INTERIM_REPORT_TO_NATIONAL_CABINET_17TH_SEPTEMBER_2021.pdf
For those who want a look into the future........cant see lockdowns being lifted to any great extent even at 70%.
Hope those high seeding figures never happen and the knuckleheads in the community show some common sense and continue safe practices .


EB, has there been any advise on the rules of quarantine if exposed once the state opens. Surely not the same 14 day quarantine is going to apply if your fully vaccinated?

Everyone concedes opening up will have case numbers heading north so the chances of being near live with or at a tier one site is going to be a much higher probability then we currently have. Hopefully if your fully vaccinated that rule doesn’t apply.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5157 –
Quote from: Micky0 – on
Thanks for answering Shawny, I appreciate it. I’m so sorry your kids are really hurting.

You’re right I suppose where you sit now is how you view it - besides loss of doing what we want my family has maintained our life pretty much in terms of work. My kids are ok remote learning and otherwise are ok.

I disagree on the lies you’ve attributed to Dan and view him as a strong leader. But understand that due to your circumstances you see it differently.

I hope Covid screws off for all our sakes.

Thanks micky. Agree that Covid views are skewed depending on your personal situation.  I know some that are getting nice government kickbacks for doing no less or more then they ever have as a casual worker which IMO is wrong yet they checked and it’s legal so they are taking it. If they are ok mentally don’t have children to be concerned about they will view Covid very differently to someone who may have lost there business struggling to keep there home and has family with mental health concerns to top it off.

We all need to consider others in these stressful times. As a country we have always helped a mate when they needed it - bloody sad to see this virus causing separation and lack of empathy as many want to divide us based on their vaccine views, whether someone wears a mask while walking their dog or questioning if they really needed to buy weed killer at Bunnings as it wasn’t essential.

No one knows the luggage some people are carrying so think about that before throwing insults.

Take care brother and thanks for your kind words.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5158 –
Quote from: shawny – on
EB, has there been any advise on the rules of quarantine if exposed once the state opens. Surely not the same 14 day quarantine is going to apply if your fully vaccinated?

Everyone concedes opening up will have case numbers heading north so the chances of being near live with or at a tier one site is going to be a much higher probability then we currently have. Hopefully if your fully vaccinated that rule doesn’t apply.
Shawny...I'm not across the quarantine likely changes, but my personal opinion is I'd be surprised if Dan was to lower the number of days that quickly and now Gladys has scrapped Freedom day I reckon its going to be a slow transition in NSW as well.