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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5670 –
LP. I am sure we have had advertisements on the television regarding sick people in hospital beds looking like they are near death. One of a big strong gentleman laying on his belly warning people of how dangerous covid is or can be. As for real world causes I cannot comment. They don’t state the cost to society that I have noticed. It would be interesting to see how much the profits have increased with the manufacturers of the vaccines. I wonder if the government benefits from these profits. Just asking the question. Not speculating anything with my comments. Strange to see government employees and MP’s being some of the last to have work mandates considered to keep them working away from home. If legal action was ever taken against the government for such mandates is that not a conflict of interest or to the government benefit? Just asking a question again. No speculation here.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5671 –
@LP.

There is a level of this stuff not worth doing i think.

At some point, we just have to say let it rip vaccine or no vaccine.

The hospitals are yet to really feel the pressure so let's make it happen.  The rest of the hesitant will get their answer.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5672 –
Over the past weeks I have been made aware by friends of the frightening situation facing patients and staff in our public hospitals emergency departments, and the near certainty that the position will worsen shortly.

In this situation, would it be feasible for the state government to select a date - say 30 November - and advise the public that any unvaccinated person presenting at hospital with covid (with the exception of people with the appropriate medical exemption) after that date would be billed a proportion of their hospital treatment costs because of the unnecessary strain they would be placing upon the already strained health system?

Any measure that has an impact on peoples' hip pockets seems to capture their attention, and I refer to the threat in recent years to cut funds to unvaccinated children at day care, and the last few weeks with mandated vaccination for essential work.  In both instances vaccination rates improved.









Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5673 –
State governments can't do that AFAIK, Macca. There was a rumour running in anti-vaxxer circles that the Victorian Government would refuse hospital access to unvaccinated patients but it was soon pointed out that the State Governments had no role in this as the agreements b/w State and Federal Governments require hospitals to take medicare patients. AFAIK, the same agreement would stop State Governments requiring a co-payment.

Of course, the Federal Government could impose co-payments, but that's not going to happen. Slomo wants to get the States to do the dirty work and he's not going to wade into controversy. Federal Labor wouldn't be impressed either as they fought to prevent the Liberals imposing a co-payment as Labor feared that would enable the Liberals to gut the medicare system over time.

I would have thought there should have been a quota system which protected beds needed by other departments such as cancer and cardio wards. Then the triage policy could have been adjusted to prioritise the vaccinated when covid patients exceeded the number of beds available for them. But fairness would require such policy changes to be publicised beforehand to allow the unvaccinated to become vaccinated. It's too late to do that now.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5674 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
@LP.

There is a level of this stuff not worth doing i think.

At some point, we just have to say let it rip vaccine or no vaccine.

The hospitals are yet to really feel the pressure so let's make it happen.  The rest of the hesitant will get their answer.

...and in the meantime, those who are vaccinated and have other medical emergencies will be the ones suffering because they won't be seen and/or attended to efficiently enough as a result.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5675 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
...and in the meantime, those who are vaccinated and have other medical emergencies will be the ones suffering because they won't be seen and/or attended to efficiently enough as a result.


Been a lot of over anxious vaccine patients too with side effect issues that are usually anxiety driven rather than real.
Chest pains means you are top of the to be seen list and that means ECG's ,blood tests plus demanding of a bed and more heavy monitoring and this is partly what is clogging up ER's. Better hope when lockdowns are lifted in Melbourne we dont get more road accidents because its really going to hit the fan in terms of resources being stretched...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5676 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Better hope when lockdowns are lifted in Melbourne we dont get more road accidents ...
I've been lucky not to have stopped working from the office, but I can tell you the roads have become frightening than ever!

Firstly, norbits who now have all the empty freeway space are driving like lunatics on ice. Secondly, those who are now driving far less seem to have lost all the skills while thinking they are still Juan Fangio. Wait till the jams return and patience runs out, it'll be chaos!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5677 –
Agreed. Roads have been scary during lockdown. Moron drivers behave worse with less traffic and then mix that with people who don't know how to drive who were probably catching public transport before.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5678 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
...and in the meantime, those who are vaccinated and have other medical emergencies will be the ones suffering because they won't be seen and/or attended to efficiently enough as a result.



We can't hide in our homes forever kruddler.

We've had government mandates, everyone has had their chance to get vaccinated we need to start returning to as normal as possible.

Our lockdowns are going to be less effective anyway as we proceed with freedoms for the vaccinated and the unvaccinated are going to continue to remain so until they change their mind or the mandate is lifted.


When the hospitals feel some pressure we can adjust again but thus far, I see a lot of extremely tired people in health care who are as exhausted from the protection measures and lack of social life as they are from the pandemic.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5679 –
Quote from: Macca37 – on
Over the past weeks I have been made aware by friends of the frightening situation facing patients and staff in our public hospitals emergency departments, and the near certainty that the position will worsen shortly.

In this situation, would it be feasible for the state government to select a date - say 30 November - and advise the public that any unvaccinated person presenting at hospital with covid (with the exception of people with the appropriate medical exemption) after that date would be billed a proportion of their hospital treatment costs because of the unnecessary strain they would be placing upon the already strained health system?

Any measure that has an impact on peoples' hip pockets seems to capture their attention, and I refer to the threat in recent years to cut funds to unvaccinated children at day care, and the last few weeks with mandated vaccination for essential work.  In both instances vaccination rates improved.












You would be hard pressed to make a tax payer foot the bill for health care their taxes are supposed to cover.

It will get worse, but there are measures in place that haven't been required at this stage and im pretty sure where I work a 700 (there are more but they've closed beds for donning and doffing ppe) bed hospital with less than 100 covid patients means there's a bit of room to move.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5680 –
Also, we are all going to catch covid.  Considering the bulk of us have vaccinated recently you're better off catching it within the next few months. 

I'll remind you at this point that I'm a hospital worker who got double jabbed by July.  Id rather catch covid now than in April next year.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5681 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
We can't hide in our homes forever kruddler.

We've had government mandates, everyone has had their chance to get vaccinated we need to start returning to as normal as possible.

Our lockdowns are going to be less effective anyway as we proceed with freedoms for the vaccinated and the unvaccinated are going to continue to remain so until they change their mind or the mandate is lifted.


When the hospitals feel some pressure we can adjust again but thus far, I see a lot of extremely tired people in health care who are as exhausted from the protection measures and lack of social life as they are from the pandemic.


I'm just pointing out that letting everyone 'be free' is not the end of the argument and there are consequences to that.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5682 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I'm just pointing out that letting everyone 'be free' is not the end of the argument and there are consequences to that.
While I'm optimistic, I suspect a lot of people are going to be shocked by how limited this "new free" might potentially become in the weeks and months ahead.

Mostly, this desire to cut loose is a prayer we hear being spoken for winding the clock back, not a commentary about the reality of the future, the idea this free is free like before is potentially quite far from the truth.

I think this because at this stage the science seems to indicate natural immunity is rather poor and short lived, Sars-CoV-2 has a trick of suppressing the immune system which is why vaccines are still a far better solution than getting a Sars-CoV-2 infection. But it looks like neither, getting a vaccination or surviving an infection, is a permanent solution.

Let's hope the bean counters don't slash funding like they did back in 2003 when Sars waned, but this is also a prayer and I'm not fully confident humanity won't repeat it's same mistakes!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5683 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on

You would be hard pressed to make a tax payer foot the bill for health care their taxes are supposed to cover.

It will get worse, but there are measures in place that haven't been required at this stage and im pretty sure where I work a 700 (there are more but they've closed beds for donning and doffing ppe) bed hospital with less than 100 covid patients means there's a bit of room to move.

Thry, I understand the point of your first sentence.

What annoys me is the fact that the Federal Government has spent taxpayer dollars allocated for health on vaccines to protect every eligible person,  and yet those who refuse to have the vaccine, for whatever reason, unnecessarily overload the health system when they contract covid.

When this happens people with other medical conditions are denied their rights to health care which they have also paid for with their taxes.

i know four people who have had elective surgery cancelled as a direct result of covid overloading of the health system.




Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5684 –
Quote from: Macca37 – on
Thry, I understand the point of your first sentence.

What annoys me is the fact that the Federal Government has spent taxpayer dollars allocated for health on vaccines to protect every eligible person,  and yet those who refuse to have the vaccine, for whatever reason, unnecessarily overload the health system when they contract covid.

When this happens people with other medical conditions are denied their rights to health care which they have also paid for with their taxes.

i know four people who have had elective surgery cancelled as a direct result of covid overloading of the health system.





Couple of Stroke patients I know got moved due to CoVid overload in a inner Melb hospital, everyone knows cases will increase with opening up and loosening of restrictions , you just have to hope infected patients on the whole only have mild systems and dont present at Hospital.
I'm with Dr Norman Swann and reckon accepting International travelers is crazy and just looking for a new strain to jump into the country. Rather we just open state borders and see how we go and leave the overseas travel to other countries and see how they go first so we can learn from their mistakes or if successful follow their strategies.
Some of my sons dumb inlaws want to jump on cruise ships again because packages are cheap but I'd sink any cruise ship entering our waters unless those companies can prove they are on top of controlling infection and checking passengers properly.
Too many moving parts in terms of transient crews, stop overs, transient passengers getting on and off at different locations etc etc.