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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5790 –
A guy I know lost his brother in the phillipines to covid, he was 42. He had 2 jabs of Sinovax.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5791 –
Quote from: LP – on
Agreed, the next big issue might not be COVID directly but the indirect overload of hospitals and health care staff as we open up. I suspect like yourself the worst is potentially ahead of us, a lot hangs in the balance subject to the new treatments because immunity it seems won't be everlasting.

As I've said several times, we can open up but we must still respect the safe basics, and I fear it will descend into a free for all.

Japan is also a nice model to monitor, it has basically preceded what has happened in NSW and Vic and now enters winter, they are not confident at all and have a large chunk of the population vaccinated. A population that is far far more compliant than here! :o

Bejing has locked down millions even though they are nearly all vaccinated with Sinovax, note we are about to approve Sinovax locally.

These are significant tells!

The TGA has recognised Sinovax and Covishield (India's version of AstraZeneca) but will not approve them.  That means that neither vaccine will be used in Australia but folk fully vaccinated with either will be permitted to enter Australia.

It was interesting listening to Norman Swan today.  He was discussing the impact of vaccine passports on infection rates in Israel and Denmark. 

He was asked whether a vaccinated person should socialise with an unvaccinated friend.  The answer was "Yes, unless you have children." 
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5792 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The TGA has recognised Sinovax and Covishield (India's version of AstraZeneca) but will not approve them.  That means that neither vaccine will be used in Australia but folk fully vaccinated with either will be permitted to enter Australia.
That resolves a problem for a lot of travellers.

I've heard that acknowledging the vaccines is just the first step with further applications to come in the weeks that follow, but I admit I'm not familiar with the process. The comments seemed to make sense, by getting the vaccinations accepted they basically use arriving vaccine recipients as local proof that the vaccines provide efficacy. If they didn't arrivals would have to be re-inoculated and they lose the evidence. So the strategy is that unless there are excessive numbers of cases appearing in arriving Sinovax recipients they are unlikely to refuse a future application.

A lot of the pressure for this to happen is coming out of education and tourism sectors, they want Asian travellers back!

Ironically, being re-vaccinated won't be a bad thing for the vast majority of people!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5793 –
A guy who does some work for us has had to take off until the end of the year (at least).

His Mum, dad and grandfather who all live together have all copped covid. He has to look after them. He is double vaxed (not sure about them) but will almost certainly get it too.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5794 –
A friend’s three year old grandson was infected with COVID at childcare last month.  Fortunately, he wasn’t very ill and is back to full health.  His parents and grandmother are fully vaccinated and, despite the little fellow’s best efforts and generous sharing of bodily fluids, they were not infected.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5795 –
Victoria’s 91.3% first dose rate is first rate. I’d imagine the committed anti-vaxxers will make it hard to improve much on that figure.

But that figure needs to be reduced to reflect the vaccination rate in the whole community as it includes only those 16 years and over. Assuming around 20% are younger than that, then the first dose vaccination rate goes down to about 73% of the community. But that figure would have to be increased to reflect vaccinations in the 12-15 year age group unless those vaccinations are included already in the 91.3% figure.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5796 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Victoria’s 91.3% first dose rate is first rate. I’d imagine the committed anti-vaxxers will make it hard to improve much on that figure.

But that figure needs to be reduced to reflect the vaccination rate in the whole community as it includes only those 16 years and over. Assuming around 20% are younger than that, then the first dose vaccination rate goes down to about 73% of the community. But that figure would have to be increased to reflect vaccinations in the 12-15 year age group unless those vaccinations are included already in the 91.3% figure.

The 91.3% figure is 16s and older.

79% of Victoria's 12-15 year olds have received their first vaccination and 45% are fully vaccinated.  That's an amazing result given the timeframe.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5797 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Victoria’s 91.3% first dose rate is first rate. I’d imagine the committed anti-vaxxers will make it hard to improve much on that figure.

But that figure needs to be reduced to reflect the vaccination rate in the whole community as it includes only those 16 years and over. Assuming around 20% are younger than that, then the first dose vaccination rate goes down to about 73% of the community. But that figure would have to be increased to reflect vaccinations in the 12-15 year age group unless those vaccinations are included already in the 91.3% figure.


The anti vaxxer I work with just gave up and got it done. He was going to hold out till the state of emergency finished but realised nothing is going to change with Dan's super power bill about to go through.

We have a contractor who visits here most days who got an exemption till December by signing up for a trial for the Aussie vaccine.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5798 –
Dan Andrews super bill. The Pandemic Management bill will be a big problem for the entire community in Victoria. It will create many problems if it gets through. Allowing rules and restrictions including restrictions of movements based on “individual attributes and characteristics “ applies to any living person on this planet. Don’t we all have individual attributes and or characteristics? Wow. Welcome back to the Second World War with what the Nazi regime put into place. Just asking a question. Just saying what is going on. No speculation here. Democracy under question? Maybe.? Maybe not?
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5799 –
I wouldn't trust him to take a dog for a walk ... power mad

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5800 –
The sooner we concede - or at least discuss openly - that this current batch of CV19 vaccines are next to useless - we might have a chance as a society.

VE, cited as a relative measure is a useless measure without looking at, in tandem, the absolute efficiency.

Time to revisit the swag of early treatments readily available (absent TGA 'bans').

c19early.com

2 jabs + 2 boosters in a 12 month period = NOT a vaccine.

Don't stop infection or transmission = destroys the argument for any form of vaccine passport.

Latest data out of the UK - vaccinated folk have higher rates of infection and hospitalisation than the unvaxxed....in all age deciles above 30.

Just a money generating, poorly conceived treatment. On a good day.

Let's see who steps up - so gleefully and readily for the ongoing series of boosters....

For a disease that was #38 on the causes of death in Australia in 2020 (pre vaccine). When the great majority of those CV19 related were caused by government malfeasance.

Meanwhile, our beloved Premier, true to form, forgetting (again) he's a public servant.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/state-government-makes-lastminute-bid-to-stop-lockdown-files-release/news-story/c755c2002617bb4867f77ccb432f0d90
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5801 –
Yep, take Ivermectin instead, yada, yada, yada ...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5802 –
VERY interesting reading this morning how and why India's death numbers have dropped like a stone.

Turns out they (allegedly) have a natural body immunity to the virus.  In a way, I'm not surprised by that given their living conditions over many generations and a build up of resistance.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5803 –
Quote from: capcom – on
VERY interesting reading this morning how and why India's death numbers have dropped like a stone.

Turns out they (allegedly) have a natural body immunity to the virus.  In a way, I'm not surprised by that given their living conditions over many generations and a build up of resistance.

From what I've read, just under 70% of the Indian population now has COVID antibodies, indicating that they have been vaccinated or have been exposed to the virus.  Only 52% of the population has had one vaccination so a significant number of those with COVID antibodies must have had the virus.  This represents a serious undercount of infections; 33 undetected infections for every one detected  :o

Undercounting COVID cases and deaths has been a feature of the pandemic in India.  Excess deaths has been estimated at between 3.4 and 4.9M and the official COVID death toll is 400,000.

Similar sharp declines in case numbers were observed in the UK, the Netherlands and Israel after the most recent spikes and were explained as likely to be the result high vaccination rates and high infection levels.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5804 –
I'd prefer DJC's explanation. But I'll follow the science, wherever that leads. If it does transpire that Indians have stronger immunity against Covid, then so be it. But clear scientific evidence would be required rather than conjecture.

The 2 intuitive arguments against the idea would be:
  • Indians are hardly a homogenous and closed demographic. Most of us would struggle to differentiate Indians from Pakistanis from Sri Lankans from Bangladeshis from Afghanis etc. That's because there's more than a little commonality there. If Indians had an impressive natural resistance, you'd expect that to be true of those other populations. That doesn't seem to be noted statistically.
  • The argument that Indians have better immunity as they are exposed to more dirt and contamination has a surface plausibility. We've all heard that scientists believe that excessive cleanliness in Western households may have predisposed children to athsma and allergies. But this is a novel coronavirus. It's not as though Indians would be less likely to suffer colds and flu because many have been forced to deal with unsanitary conditions. And even if they had generated greater immunity against those coronaviruses, that wouldn't have given them an advantage against a novel coronavirus which requires a different response. After all, the flu vaccine didn't give anyone protection against Covid.

Unfortunately, commonplace harsh and unsanitary conditions don't tend to confer stronger immunity. That's the reason why there has been so much concern for indigenous communities and minorities such as black Americans. Poorer access to healthcare and good nutrition leaves people more susceptible to Covid rather than more protected from it. Disadvantage reduces life expectancy rather than increasing it.

That's not to say that there aren't people who have a greater level of natural immunity against Covid. That's the benefit of genetic diversity through sexual reproduction. Clones produced by asexual reproduction would always have the same strengths and weaknesses. For species using that method of reproduction, a fatal new disease will wipe out the whole population.  With sexual reproduction, some may well survive and allow the species to regenerate. There was even 1 guy, Stephen Crohn, who was totally resistant to HIV thanks to a genetic mutation. There was talk early on in the pandemic that some blood types may be less affected by Covid than other blood types. So I can buy the idea that there are some people in every community who have little to fear from Covid but I doubt that there are entire populations who have that golden ticket.