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Topic: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn (Read 26232 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #90 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Downhill skiers
No, it's probably a leg speed issue, we have too many who aren't able to keep up with elite runners.

It's time for Simmo, maybe sMurph as well.

Clarkson tore the top heavy team selection an new one last night, I thought it might happen in the pre-game and it eventuated. It doesn't help when 204cm McKay is penalised for an arm chop, then just 15s later at the other end O'Brien does identically the same to the front positioned Weitering and it's play on goal Hawthorn.

The disparity is glaring!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #91 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
A mate of mine says one thing only ad nauseum to me, "we lack c@#$ right across the board".  Back in the day we had it in spades.
This is part of it too, something the Robbo or Fev haters need to get their head around, it's not about being Mr Nice on and off the field, because the pricks will walk all over you on it!

Last night we saw guys like Cripps and Casboult decelerate into collisions with smaller opponents, it's untenable for players that size not to be holding their line and hurting smaller opponents. Then you see a player like Burgoyne or Sicily smashing our little blokes. 
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #92 –
Hawks pre game were the worst ball using team in the comp.
Didn't look like that to me and I think they have some very high quality users..
Stats can be twisted when a couple of players are very bad but you have to look closer at individuals.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #93 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
A mate of mine says one thing only ad nauseum to me, "we lack c@#$ right across the board".  Back in the day we had it in spades.

Our big men are gentle giants.
Our smalls are much too light to impact.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #94 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Hawks pre game were the worst ball using team in the comp.
Didn't look like that to me and I think they have some very high quality users..
Stats can be twisted when a couple of players are very bad but you have to look closer at individuals.
The difference is because the Holding the Ball implementation change last night, that enabled them to get their old structures back and working around stoppages and get some free numbers outside.

The bad Dawks ball using stats were because in previous weeks they were continually stuck in traffic under pressure.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #95 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
A mate of mine says one thing only ad nauseum to me, "we lack c@#$ right across the board".  Back in the day we had it in spades.
I call it Von Trapp syndrome, by trying to avoid knob head players we have also avoided those players with mongrel.
GWS have similar issues....its held them back imo.. they have to keep reinventing Mumford and with Ward always injured that only leaves Greene who has some agro.. Great skills but Cogs, Kelly, Whitfield etc are so nice and friendly..

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #96 –
Quote from: LP – on
The difference is because the Holding the Ball implementation change last night, that enabled them to get their old structures back and working around stoppages and get some free numbers outside.

The bad Dawks ball using stats were because in previous weeks they were continually stuck in traffic under pressure.

It's certainly possible IMO. As you say, his whining earlier in the season was very specific and intended to produce a desirable result.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #97 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I call it Von Trapp syndrome, by trying to avoid knob head players we have also avoided those players with mongrel.
GWS have similar issues....its held them back imo.. they have to keep reinventing Mumford and with Ward always injured that only leaves Greene who has some agro.. Great skills but Cogs, Kelly, Whitfield etc are so nice and friendly..
I agree.

But I'd take Whitfield in a heartbeat, but he needs to come with a Greene, in fact Toby Greene might be perfect for us!

I suspect we have to move the older types on before this happens, the Simmo and sMurph types, we've too many OH&S Safe Workplace types. It leaves us as fodder for the kents, over and over again!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #98 –
Quote from: laj – on
Need to think more with the head and not frustrations. Not alot of huge decisions need to be made. Right now we're typical of up and coming sides. The good and not so good players will sort itself out in the wash.

Can't agree. I am simply commenting on presenting symptoms and facts. We're a moody side and have been for a long, long time... it's ingrained and we've been overtaken by sides who were in a similar situation to us not too long ago.

We've been up-and-coming for many years and the same symptom has persisted for at least the last 7 years... fold under pressure/ferocity from opponents, regardless of where they are on the ladder.

We and BrisVegas were in a very similar circumstance a few years back... with very similar age profiles. Their culture has changed and is definitive. Our culture has not changed, or at best is confusing but is certainly not definitive.

The 'she'll be right/lots like us/typical of up-and-comer' explanations don't wash with me - a recipe for ordinariness. And, 'The good and not so good players will sort itself out in the wash' is... well, wishy washy.

I stand by my comments that we're undisciplined and fold under pressure. We're still too nice and too introverted. What if the TT is getting the very best from this group at present?

As for your suggestion, '2 days ago we were a loss to Melbourne and a goal after the siren from being equal top of the ladder'... well that's every bit as invalid/irrelevant as my comment that we could be on the bottom. We are where we deserve to be... in the bottom section, and an erratic, inconsistent side that opponents know is fragile when the heat is brought.

Ignoring or pretending that the concerning symptoms can be explained away or not to be overly concerned about is a recipe for... well... more of the same, same old same old.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #99 –
Firstly, Pittonet is a reasonable ruckmen, he has potential to improve and can play at the level.

But, I suppose we saw last night why the Dawks let Pittonet go, their ageing fill-in/placeholder rucks turned him into a puddle.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #100 –
First post in a long time.

Murphy is  gone. Without doubt, the worst turnover merchant in Carlton's history.
SPS not good enough, not strong enough.
Cunningham, doesn't want to get hurt. Couldn't stick an easy tackle in the first minute of the first quarter. Played one good game, the rest hopeless. Kicks the easy goal off other players hard work.
Ploughman, the least intelligent defender in the league, and there are a few of them around.
Moore, the less said the better.
Betts is past it. They won't drop him, and he'll kick the odd goal, but this must be his last year.

JACK MARTIN. The lazy way he ran at the Port Adelaide player in the last 40 seconds of that game,  who then got the ball  and resulted in the winning goal, watch the replay again if you missed it, is symptomatic of how his tackling effort  fades away during a game. And his inexcusable turnovers by foot, are embarrassing for a player of his ability.

I'm not going to go through the rest of them, I'll just leave the last blast for the coach.

MAKE SOME FREAKING POSITIONAL CHANGES DURING A GAME WHICH MIGHT CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE MATCH, INSTEAD OF SITTING IN THE BOX WITH A BLANK LOOK ON YOUR FACE, YOU IMBECILE.
IF YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF DOING THAT, THEN RESIGN AND LET US GET A COACH WHO CAN THINK OUTSIDE THE SQUARE. ONE EXAMPLE, YOU LEFT JONES ON THE PORT ADELAIDE FULL FORWARD DIXON THE WHOLE GAME. YOUR EXCUSE AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE, WE THOUGHT HE WAS DOING A FAIR JOB. IMBECILES, ALL OF YOU. IT COST US THE GAME BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T AT THE VERY LEAST, GIVE WEITERING A GO ON HIM.

Yes, I'm upset. I reckon we need to recruit better, stronger, players, and we need a coach who is less a mate of the players, and more a tough disciplinarian, and has the foresight and intelligence to make changes and try something different during a game.

We are so inconsistent, we could come out and knock off the Eagles next week.

But if we do, don't let that fool you.

Let's just get through this cr@ppy year, and hopefully we get Charlie back, and Brodie Kemp can be all that he showed he could be, before he got the ACL.  Eddie and Murphy retire, Simmo, retire, trade SPS and a pick for Papley and give Teague an experienced assistant.

Then we might get somewhere.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #101 –
Quote from: bignic – on
Let's just get through this cr@ppy year, and hopefully we get Charlie back, and Brodie Kemp can be all that he showed he could be, before he got the ACL.  Eddie and Murphy retire, Simmo, retire, trade SPS and a pick for Papley and give Teague an experienced assistant.
I'm worry that Barker has been a constant through the recent disappointing period, I realise everybody loves him, he is a nice bloke, but he's taken over the midfield and stoppages this year and Cripps looks broken.

I do not dare look at the history of Barker's responsibilities and our performance or player issues.

Is this unfair?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #102 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Can't agree. I am simply commenting on presenting symptoms and facts. We're a moody side and have been for a long, long time... it's ingrained and we've been overtaken by sides who were in a similar situation to us not too long ago.

We've been up-and-coming for many years and the same symptom has persisted for at least the last 7 years... fold under pressure/ferocity from opponents, regardless of where they are on the ladder.

We and BrisVegas were in a very similar circumstance a few years back... with very similar age profiles. Their culture has changed and is definitive. Our culture has not changed, or at best is confusing but is certainly not definitive.

The 'she'll be right/lots like us/typical of up-and-comer' explanations don't wash with me - a recipe for ordinariness. And, 'The good and not so good players will sort itself out in the wash' is... well, wishy washy.

I stand by my comments that we're undisciplined and fold under pressure. We're still too nice and too introverted. What if the TT is getting the very best from this group at present?

As for your suggestion, '2 days ago we were a loss to Melbourne and a goal after the siren from being equal top of the ladder'... well that's every bit as invalid/irrelevant as my comment that we could be on the bottom. We are where we deserve to be... in the bottom section, and an erratic, inconsistent side that opponents know is fragile when the heat is brought.

Ignoring or pretending that the concerning symptoms can be explained away or not to be overly concerned about is a recipe for... well... more of the same, same old same old.

Thinking with your frustrations not your head. Too many of the usual knee jerk reactions. You have to accept they'll be up and downs at this stage and bad losses. We had out and out brilliance, Geelong and Bulldogs, and we've had shockers. Actually, it's only the 2nd hammering under Teague in 20 games and everyone loses their mind. We have quite a bit to go but the scoreboard shows we are alot better. Have a bad loss and everyone goes crazy. No proper analysis just knee jerk crazy. Not that bad losses are acceptable but they will happen. If people can't they are following the wrong sport. We have to sort out the difference between good and bad.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #103 –
Quote from: bignic – on


We are so inconsistent, we could come out and knock off the Eagles next week.

But if we do, don't let that fool you.

If we do it'll again show we are on the way up. Like any side on the way up they'll be ups and downs and real inconsistencies.

Coach is 10-10, better than 1-11, 2-20. Doesn't happen overnight as much as everyone wants it to.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #104 –
Quote from: laj – on
Thinking with your frustrations not your head. Too many of the usual knee jerk reactions. You have to accept they'll be up and downs at this stage and bad losses. We had out and out brilliance, Geelong and Bulldogs, and we've had shockers. Actually, it's only the 2nd hammering under Teague in 20 games and everyone loses their mind. We have quite a bit to go but the scoreboard shows we are alot better. Have a bad loss and everyone goes crazy. No proper analysis just knee jerk crazy. Not that bad losses are acceptable but they will happen. If people can't they are following the wrong sport. We have to sort out the difference between good and bad.
@laj‍

We are breaking Cripps Laj, we can't keep doing this crap over and over again and expect to make progress.

Clarkson had his whinge, perhaps got some favour from the umpires, but the win came because he exposed the same old same old not because of the umpires. It's just the umpiring leaves fans with that perception of being ripped off!

Clarkson looked like the Grinch that Stole Christmas last night, I haven't seen him like that since he put the mocker on Fev's 100th goal kicking at Etihad.

But the loss is due to fundamental list issues, you can put an end to Clarkson's tactics quite easily, but you have to have players willing to get down and dirty! You can't win playing fair, he's developed tactics that disable fair opponents!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"