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Topic: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide (Read 44120 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #180 –
How would we go with someone like Gary Ayers sitting in the box and being an advisor / mentor?? Experienced, successful and no real threat for the big job??  Even Justin Leppisch??  Hard edge, been with successful clubs and has a few clues about the caper and also not interested in the ‘big job’.  We need a tough hardened  support mechanism that obviously isn’t there at the moment.....

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #181 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
What has what happened before Sam Walsh was even born got to do with where we are at right now as a football club.

People are frustrated. I am too. But don't let logic escape your thinking.

Realistically we are in the same position as a St kilda or an essendon. A team that has not had success recently (or for a while) who has a new coach on board and is working through it as best they can.

Now both those teams have put in worse performances than us this year. But because the media pumped us up we are imploding.
That seems to be ignoring our injury list and ignoring our performance against Richmond....and our 2 wins.

Now, I can tell you how the next week will go...
We'll turn up to play against the lions, go ok for most of it, have a down period where they kick away and despite some good signs we will ultimately lose by 3 or 4 goals.....and you know what, that is ok because they are a better side than us.

Further to that...
An older player will have a shocker.
An out of form player will play their best game of the year.
A young player will show promising signs and we'll pump him up prematurely.
The coach will get chastised for some words.
Some people will be ready to burn their memberships.
The media will turn the heat up on the club....again.

Bookmark this and tell me how I did. ;)

You'll probably be pretty spot on.

It's like watching the '300' for the fiftieth time.
Same script.
You'd just like to see the Spartans have a winning season.

I think the main problem is this.
In a developing side you'll often have the odd poor performance but there is a general upward trend that folks can get excited about.
We seem to have those moments.
Teague's first games gave that hope.
Our problem is we then have these periods where things don't progress, or go backwards, that deflates the supporter base.
The loss against Port was bad but it's given extra emphasis because it fits a pattern we've seen before.
Supporters are frustrated by it, our ex-players are angry and distressed.

I've no idea what the dynamics are that cause this malaise.
It's been a pattern over the last 20 years, but your right when you say the events and characters of 2002 have little relevance to 2021.
Even a culturally crippled side should have recovered by now.

The problem I see is that there seems to be little stomach for the sort of independent review that could identify on-field and off-field issues.
We've had players, coaches and admin from other clubs that have passed through the doors in the last 20 years who would be able to give some really good comparisons...and maybe identify common issues.
It may be we work our way through it all without such a review.
But it might also be possible that such a review would fast track the process.

That of course depends on a group in charge that have a desire to implement any recommendations.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #182 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
What has what happened before Sam Walsh was even born got to do with where we are at right now as a football club.

People are frustrated. I am too. But don't let logic escape your thinking.

Realistically we are in the same position as a St kilda or an essendon. A team that has not had success recently (or for a while) who has a new coach on board and is working through it as best they can.

Now both those teams have put in worse performances than us this year. But because the media pumped us up we are imploding.
That seems to be ignoring our injury list and ignoring our performance against Richmond....and our 2 wins.

Now, I can tell you how the next week will go...
We'll turn up to play against the lions, go ok for most of it, have a down period where they kick away and despite some good signs we will ultimately lose by 3 or 4 goals.....and you know what, that is ok because they are a better side than us.

Further to that...
An older player will have a shocker.
An out of form player will play their best game of the year.
A young player will show promising signs and we'll pump him up prematurely.
The coach will get chastised for some words.
Some people will be ready to burn their memberships.
The media will turn the heat up on the club....again.

Bookmark this and tell me how I did. ;)
Essendon and Stkilda as reference levels..? Maybe that's our problem, we just lower the bar every year to that of the other long term losers and are contented to be seen as no worse.. No wonder it does someone like Maclures head in and all the other old timers..

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #183 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
How would we go with someone like Gary Ayers sitting in the box and being an advisor / mentor?? Experienced, successful and no real threat for the big job??  Even Justin Leppisch??  Hard edge, been with successful clubs and has a few clues about the caper and also not interested in the ‘big job’.  We need a tough hardened  support mechanism that obviously isn’t there at the moment.....

I'd be interested in Leppitsch, because he played in successful teams, at least later in his career, and because he was part of the recent Richmond resurgence - something that would be relevant to us, as we try to put more pieces of the puzzle in place. In fact, in some ways he's seen it all. Dismalness in the early years with the Bears and Lions, not great success as a senior coach, but success with later teams and as an assistant. We could do a lot worse IMO.

I have no interest in him or anyone else because he will supposedly toughen up the players, not accept crap etc., notions which I find lacking any real insight or common sense.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #184 –
Excuse my cynicism,  but we've got less off field debt... Whoopedy doo.   Most clubs live with massive debt,  they're not typical businesses.   Question I'm asking is,  so how has that translated into infield success?

The currency of football is wins and premierships, period.  At least 4 Melbourne clubs  have been essentially bust for years,  didn't stop the likes of the bulldogs winning a flag.

The likes of the Matheson faction, the Elliot faction etc etc have been pulling the strings for a loooooooning time. Probably the greater part of the last twenty years.  Is there a correlation there?

I don't think we have the right people at any level of this club,  the proof is in the pudding..... Zero on field success for over twenty years and 2021 looking just as bleak.

Time to change it up at all levels.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #185 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Excuse my cynicism,  but we've got less off field debt... Whoopedy doo.   Most clubs live with massive debt,  they're not typical businesses.   Question I'm asking is,  so how has that translated into infield success?

The currency of football is wins and premierships, period.  At least 4 Melbourne clubs  have been essentially bust for years,  didn't stop the likes of the bulldogs winning a flag.

The likes of the Matheson faction, the Elliot faction etc etc have been pulling the strings for a loooooooning time. Probably the greater part of the last twenty years.  Is there a correlation there?

I don't think we have the right people at any level of this club,  the proof is in the pudding..... Zero on field success for over twenty years and 2021 looking just as bleak.

Time to change it up at all levels.

Interesting post. We should have gutted the whole club when Bolton was appointed. Rebuild the board, executive, footy department, list, assistant coaches etc. That was the time to do it. What we did was gut the list, and make a few changes to the higher ups, which didn't really go far enough. To do that now would probably destroy the club.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #186 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Maclure played in an era when other teams respected Carlton and how we played the game. You were expected to rebound next week and win if you lost... No excuses.
The brand of football wasnt allowed to be the bruise free rubbish we offer up to day.
Losing and being happy with honorable losses was for loser teams like Stkilda and other teams who were our bitches.
Their is no respect for us now, we are a pencilled in possible win for every other team.
We are seen as weak physically and play a passive brand that can embarrass when highlighted. All that is just totally against everything Maclure identifies with a successful Carlton. Sure the game has changed but not to the extent when you give up your identity so easily as a leading club like we have and that would burn Maclure.

If Maclure genuinely loves the club and thinks he has the answers, then he should stop bleating from the sidelines, and roll up his sleeves and do some real work in helping us out. His whinging, fan boy antics are the journalistic equivalent of bruise free footy.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #187 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Essendon and Stkilda as reference levels..? Maybe that's our problem, we just lower the bar every year to that of the other long term losers and are contented to be seen as no worse.. No wonder it does someone like Maclures head in and all the other old timers..

The reference was in terms of coaching appointment and perceived ladder position for 2021.
Remember 1 in 9 at the age and similar at the HS had us in the 8. About the same as bombers. Saints were in there more from memory.

So yes, like it or not, they are our peers at present. Any suggestion otherwise is looking through navy coloured glasses.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #188 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Excuse my cynicism,  but we've got less off field debt... Whoopedy doo.   Most clubs live with massive debt,  they're not typical businesses.   Question I'm asking is,  so how has that translated into infield success?

How? Easy.

1. Upgrade facilities.
Make it a place where we can get the best out of players, physically and mentally. If they are happy they are more likely to perform. If we have all the mod cons, they are more likely to perform.

2. Make it attractive comparatively to others clubs.
Why would you want to go there, when we have all this? That means players are less likely to leave and more likely to stay....and stay for less. This clearly helps build a better list.

3. As above, but with staff, not just players.


Get happier, healthier and better players and staff at the club and on field results will improve.

BTW, there is a lag with this. It doesn't happen instantly.

Fyi, look at what happened with Richmond if you disagree with the above.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #189 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
He's right about the last 20 years, but "not standing for anything" is one of those loose phrases that really doesn't mean anything. I humbly disagree. Standing for something means a great deal -- stand for nothing, fall for anything. Think about it. What does Hawthorn "stand for" ? Geelong ? Richmond ? Excellence. Team work. Unsociable footy. Ruthlessness. Persistence. Standing up for your team mate. Winning. Busting a gut. All for one, one for all... to simply name a few of the things that these clubs stand for. Our club wants to win and has good intentions the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but being unable to achieve that consistently does not mean we "stand for nothing." When an individual or organisation 'stand for something' you can see it straight away. There's an air of 'don't mess with me or what I stand for, as I will not budge.'

I've never been a Maclure fan. I think he's a moron, just shoots his gob off with zero accountability. 
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #190 –
Quote from: Baggers – on


Sorry Baggers, but they sound like quotes from Anthony Robbins. All professional sporting clubs want to win and be successful. The ones that don't simply aren't good enough, for many on field and off field reasons. Success or failure has nothing to do with standing for something. We were able to buy the best players available back in the day - wonder how ? Maybe that was the single greatest contributor to our success, rather than "standing for something".

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #191 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I've never been a Maclure fan. I think he's a moron, just shoots his gob off with zero accountability. 

That much is obvious ...

EDIT - I've always loved sellers and since when should he be held accountable for commentary on all things football?   Very odd statement

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #192 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
How would we go with someone like Gary Ayers sitting in the box and being an advisor / mentor?? Experienced, successful and no real threat for the big job??  Even Justin Leppisch??  Hard edge, been with successful clubs and has a few clues about the caper and also not interested in the ‘big job’.  We need a tough hardened  support mechanism that obviously isn’t there at the moment.....
I dont think its tactical problem all the time, our problems are skills related IMO. Our blokes can't hit targets properly  anywhere near regularly enough and we are deplorable in front of goal. Fix these two areas and I will guarantee you we will win more than we lose. I don't want to harp on this but Melb got Williams in and he has fixed their kicking virtually over night. We need a similar person and we need a fwd line coach who was a successful fwd. Find these two specialist people (and may be an NRL tacking coach) and fark off 2 or 3 of the bozos we have now.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #193 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
John Barker, to use but one example, has been with the Club since 2011. A decade. And a decade of misery (finals in 2013?)

He was a key forward, or arguably the 3rd tall at the Dawks. Talented player no question.

In 2020, he was anointed the  "midfield and stoppages coach. "

Why?

What bunch of clowns would make a former key forward a midfield and stoppage coach?


While I am no great fan of John "Geez he's a nice guy" Barker, I'm not sure that this obsession that fans have of coaches having to coach the position they played is the right one??    Are we saying Barker hasnt learned any new skills, in 15 years, since he played at CHF??  He is now only valuable teaching forwards?  He hasnt picked up a thing or 2 about the rest of the ground in 15 years involved in the coaching group?

The same thing is said of all coaches - "If Josh Fraser coached the 1s, the ruckmen would be great"..... not sure it works that way...

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #194 –
Quote from: WASurfer – on
At times it looked like they had 3 or 4 extra players out there...that's how poor our defence and manning up was.


This!!   It was amazing how many times, the ball bounced around in a pack, we picked it up, and then another pack formed... but when, they picked it up, they were off, 3 or blokes in a chain that we had no chance of stopping.  it was chalk and cheese.   we fought so hard for ground, but they were able to make it appear out of nowhere