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Topic: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne (Read 27884 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #105 –
Richmond have been the pressure kings for the last few years, Hawthorn before that.

Conclusion:

High Pressure = Success
Low Pressure = Us
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #106 –
Bolton used to talk incessantly about being defined by pressure. I wonder if Teague still carries with him the mindset of a forwards coach ? Lots of high scoring, everything else a mere afterthought ?

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #107 –
Keith Miller's wartime exploits were to give him a greater sense of perspective when he returned to the sports field. When asked many years later by Michael Parkinson, about pressure in cricket, Miller responded: "Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse, playing cricket is not".

I've never forgotten that and it's equally relevant today.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #108 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Richmond have been the pressure kings for the last few years, Hawthorn before that.

Conclusion:

High Pressure = Success
Low Pressure = Us

High pressure to me reflects the real desire to win. Being able to really apply that pressure in critical periods of the game and to resist opposition pressure when it is applied is what the really professional teams can do.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #109 –
I'd like to know Murphy's pressure stats.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #110 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Bolton used to talk incessantly about being defined by pressure. I wonder if Teague still carries with him the mindset of a forwards coach ? Lots of high scoring, everything else a mere afterthought ?

The TT has also talked of being defined by pressure. I think it safe to assume he's moved on from any comfortable thinking afforded to him as an assistant coach. I doubt our issues are the senior coach, alone.

We put much of our faith in a rebuild! Then recruited too many duds, failed to attract A graders and the development of the rest was very suss. Then surrounded a 'thin' list with suss assistants. Then the commercial reality of getting sh1te broadcast times due to failure and a dour game plan (BB - minimize damage) so decided to suck up to the AFL with a 'pretty' and exciting brand of attacking footy to get better broadcast times, but did so with fundamentally the same group of assistant coaches!!! In hindsight, doomed to failure.

For about the 3rd time yesterday I heard a recently retired player criticize our poor 'transition' (Bartel). And our poor 'connect' is there for all to see and has been for, literally, years. Not getting reward for effort must be bloody demoralising for the players, yet, yesterday, you could not question their effort.



Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #111 –
Teague needs to be defined by wins or he won't have a job. Im not an advocate of sacking him or any other coach mid year but if we lose to Hawthorn then it's going to get uncomfortable for him and have the club back in chaos and people wanting a quick fix which doesn't exist.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #112 –
The draw we have had has done us no favours.  You try to build momentum, only to bump into the top 5 sides in the first 9 rounds.  If we'd had a run of North-Adel-Haw games (like Syd) and got some confidence and game flow, we'd probably be 6-3 and sitting in the top 6.   

We're not miles away, and we are not getting blown away.  We have three winnable games before the bye.  With a bit of luck, we get back to 6-6, and Charlie comes back, TDK has hit the ground running, and Martin and Fisher top it off.

Well, I can dream, can't I?
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #113 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
The draw we have had has done us no favours.  You try to build momentum, only to bump into the top 5 sides in the first 9 rounds.  If we'd had a run of North-Adel-Haw games (like Syd) and got some confidence and game flow, we'd probably be 6-3 and sitting in the top 6.   

We're not miles away, and we are not getting blown away.  We have three winnable games before the bye.  With a bit of luck, we get back to 6-6, and Charlie comes back, TDK has hit the ground running, and Martin and Fisher top it off.

Well, I can dream, can't I?
No easy games now apart from Nth.. I would have had Dogs and Dees as winnable when the season started.
Sydney at home will be tough, WC we might be a chance given they are away from home.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #114 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
The TT has also talked of being defined by pressure. I think it safe to assume he's moved on from any comfortable thinking afforded to him as an assistant coach. I doubt our issues are the senior coach, alone.

We put much of our faith in a rebuild! Then recruited too many duds, failed to attract A graders and the development of the rest was very suss. Then surrounded a 'thin' list with suss assistants. Then the commercial reality of getting sh1te broadcast times due to failure and a dour game plan (BB - minimize damage) so decided to suck up to the AFL with a 'pretty' and exciting brand of attacking footy to get better broadcast times, but did so with fundamentally the same group of assistant coaches!!! In hindsight, doomed to failure.

For about the 3rd time yesterday I heard a recently retired player criticize our poor 'transition' (Bartel). And our poor 'connect' is there for all to see and has been for, literally, years. Not getting reward for effort must be bloody demoralising for the players, yet, yesterday, you could not question their effort.

I can't say I've ever heard Teague talk about being defined by pressure, but happy to concede I missed it.

The transition and connection becomes harder and harder to achieve when you have 60+ list changes and a few coaching changes over a short period of time. It's hardly surprising we look like blokes that haven't played much together.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #115 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
The draw we have had has done us no favours.  You try to build momentum, only to bump into the top 5 sides in the first 9 rounds.  If we'd had a run of North-Adel-Haw games (like Syd) and got some confidence and game flow, we'd probably be 6-3 and sitting in the top 6.   

We're not miles away, and we are not getting blown away.  We have three winnable games before the bye.  With a bit of luck, we get back to 6-6, and Charlie comes back, TDK has hit the ground running, and Martin and Fisher top it off.

Well, I can dream, can't I?

Yep, you sure can dream... but the points you raise actually are true and have merit, IMHO.

We're a chance in each of the games before the bye. But... we do have personnel issues.

Out of form - Casboult, Gibbons, Cripps, Newnes, Williams, SPS & the game has passed Murphy. Pitto is an honest toiler, but hardly a ruck weapon.

Injured/unavailable/coming back from injury - JSOS, McGovern, TDK, Kemp, Carroll, Marchbank, Fisher, now Cuningham, Charlie, Philp, Martin, McDonald.

Not coming on as hoped/expected - Dow, LOB, Kennedy, Willo & Setterfield.

Makes for depressing reading.

As much as I don't don't like 'what ifs'... what if The TT had our best, say, 28, to pick from each week?

When Plowman, Owies, Cottrell, Casboult, Murphy, Parks, Pitto & Fogarty can't break into the senior side... then we know things are improving.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #116 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
I'd like to know Murphy's pressure stats.
The problem is going to be what you personally think a Pressure Act is! ;D

For Pressure Acts as defined by the AFL Stats Pro Murphy is ranked 9th at Carlton.

Nthmond's Jack Graham is No.1 across the AFL, but he is the only Nthmond player in the Top 50, Carlton's top rated player is Walsh in 14th! So what's the meaning of this, Nthmond are supposed to be the standards bearers but have only 1 player in the Top 50! :)

Be careful how you use stats, and what you think they mean! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #117 –
We have to be careful putting too much faith in guys coming back from injury.

Some will come back and have an immediate impact in terms improvement.

Others will take a number of games to get going.
For example Charlie may come back firing....but the game is played in a slightly different manner to the one he left.
It may suit him, but he might also take a while to adjust.
From memory his early season form the year he was hurt wasn't outstanding, then he had that break-out 7 goal game just before he was injured.
That game alone is one reason we're looking at him with such hope.

Some returnees  may re-injure themselves in a short space of time (we see lots of instances of that)
We will also continue to have players get injured.

Now throw all those injured players into the mix and it means  a lot of current players will have to make way.
So once again we're presented with the problem of a lack of consistency of personnel.
Players who may be getting comfortable with teammates and structures will have these tossed in the air again.
It will be a new mix and take time to gel.

It's not impossible all this will lead to a significant improvement, but it has to be seen as a bit more of a challenge than just 'getting players back.'


Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #118 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Thanks. I don't suppose you have a link ? I'd be keen to see them myself.

I found this from April 20th

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/wreck-it-ralph-the-carlton-nontacklers-and-zero-pressure-players-letting-down-coach-david-teague/news-story/ce1b6f4e367f6504a4337a28dab6fa7f

Five rounds into a season where Carlton has beaten only injury-hit Fremantle and Gold Coast, they are 18th for pressure and 17th for tackles.

Case in point: Carlton’s co-captain Sam Docherty. He has four tackles in five AFL games.
What he does offensively is lovely — he is elite for disposals, metres-gained, intercept marks and marks.

But even a receiver who sets up the play off the back of packs surely has had enough players randomly intersect his path to record more than four AFL tackles?

Carlton has too many non-tacklers.

Too many zero-pressure players.

Too many players prepared to drift through games with reasonable GPS stats who survive on their strength instead of buying into a team-based tackle-pressure methodology.

Paddy Dow is poor for pressure points and below average for tackles.

Wingman Jack Newnes is below average for pressure points, poor for tackles.

Michael Gibbons is below average for forward half pressure points and below average for tackles.

Will Setterfield is average for pressure points and below average for tackles.

Marc Murphy is below average for forward-half pressure points and below average for tackles.

He has been thrust into a role he is unfamiliar with and probably doesn’t maximise his strengths.

But with robust pressure players such as Jack Martin out of the side, he needs to play as if his life depended on it when he doesn’t have the ball in hand.

Many of us have got sucked into the hype.

Many of us have truly believed that the rebuild was taking shape, with Zac Williams and Adam Saad the cherry on the cake that would finally realise Carlton’s aspirations.

Carlton wants to involve itself in play-on, kick-mark footy that maximises the talents of its list.

But when all goes to hell — as it did with mid-forward connection against Port Adelaide — what does it have to fall back onto to make the game a street fight?

Judging defenders by pressure points is harder given their role, but Jacob Weitering, Lachie Plowman and Docherty are all below average for pressure points.

Sam Walsh is a Looney Tunes Tasmanian Devil, already Carlton’s best player and above average for both pressure points and tackles.

Lachie Fogarty has been quieter after his breakout clash against Fremantle but he never stops trying to apply pressure — 20th in tackles across the competition.

The point is not to play a dour, defensive, stoppage-heavy game.

The Blues have quality ball users, they have a forward line that will thrive with quick ball movement.

But so do Melbourne and Sydney, who have found a better balance of quicksilver ball movement that is complemented by extreme pressure.

Carlton fans will delight in days like the Round 3 Fremantle clash at Marvel Stadium, when the rival midfield is so inept they bask in 29 scoring shots from 64 inside 50s.

What they really want is their players to have a crack when the going gets tough.

The pressure point index is built on someone’s pressure acts, with the physical acts worth roughly double the implied pressure acts.

If that sounds like mumbo-jumbo, it should be renamed the Have-A-Crack meter.

And on that score, Carlton holds a familiar position as the wooden spooner once more.


CARLTON’S CONCERN

Points against

86.0
Rank 13th

Opp goals per inside 50 %

24.3%
Rank 15th

Points from turnover diff

-9.8
Rank 15th

Opp pts from defensive half

36.2
Rank 14th

D50 to inside 50 %

18.1%
Rank 18th

Pressure factor

169
Rank 18th
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 9: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #119 –
Thanks mbb. Leaving aside the standard Fox media guff, there's interesting info there.