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Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Mav – on
We’ll expect St. Kilda’s Max King to be hounded from now on for successfully flopping to draw a 50 metre penalty that almost turned the game against Sydney. And I wonder why Darren Milburn wasn’t heckled universally for ironing Silvagni after he’d kicked the ball. And far from being hounded out of the game for sliding in and breaking Gary Rohan’s leg, I can’t even remember who was the culprit.
Firstly, Milburn was booed by Carlton fans until he retired and disappeared from view. I recall a game at the MCG a season to two back in which that highlight was played pre-game or 1/2-time and he was booed again long long after he retired.

Sorry, but there is a significant difference here about those examples and Goodes, of which Leigh Matthews is another prime example. When he retired Matthews did not deny the horrible unsavoury things he did on the football field, he acknowledge them, spoke of regret and apologised to fans and opponents.

Not sure if King has discussed anything yet, but I know Thomas publicly apologised to Rohan.

None of them stared down the camera and denied those events to fans that had just witnessed them!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #16 –
That’s the point. Only Carlton supporters booed him. Yet in Goodes’ case, we’re told that supporters from across the AFL turned on him over incidents that you’d imagine would only aggravate supporters from the opposition team. And there are plenty of examples of players who were repeat offenders in various ways who didn’t attract universal hate, e.g. Luke Hodge.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Mav – on
That’s the point. Only Carlton supporters booed him. Yet in Goodes’ case, we’re told that supporters from across the AFL turned on him over incidents that you’d imagine would only aggravate supporters from the opposition team. And there are plenty of examples of players who were repeat offenders in various ways who didn’t attract universal hate, e.g. Luke Hodge.
Are you claiming Hodge isn't or wasn't booed? :o

In the dying years of his flagging career Goodes perpetrated many of those acts against all teams, one of the videos of him throwing himself to the ground in the absence of contact is against Carlton, I think he staged high contact from Justin Murphy who motioned to hit him, although this might not be a late career example! What did Goodes say to provoke that, we may never know, but the concept that Goodes is an angel is laughable, and the behaviour became much much worse in the final years of his career, partly I'd claim because he was rewarded by officials for behaving that way!

The idea we should tolerate unsavoury behaviour for the greater good is untenable, it will only serve to divide rather than unite. If you've done something questionable, unsavoury or distasteful, own it and move forward, do not publish a denial!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #18 –
I started this thread.  I don't like Goodes .. period.  Because of his on field tactics where he very deliberately hurt people.

His skin colour had no bearing whatsoever on that opinion.  I used the term "sook" because he is. 

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #19 –
Is all you have to do, LP, is to show that 1 person booed Like Hodge for you to equate that treatment with Goodes? Or is 100 enough? It’s sophistry to compare the responses which were clearly at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to intensity and spread across different clubs’ supporter bases.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #20 –
Hodge deliberately tried to ram a young opponent into a point post to hurt him. And yet he’s popular enough to have a cushy gig as a Channel 7 commentator.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #21 –
How do you establish who is booing for racist reasons and who isn't ? Does such a question even make sense ? If 10,000 people are booing Goodes, do you ask for a show of hands as to which have racism as a motive ? Can you even tease out such reasoning ? 1000 people boo because every one else is doing it, 1000 boo because they don't like the Swans, 1000 because he stages, 1000 because of his hair cut................. If no one owns up to it, is it just a figment of Goodes' imagination ? Do people even have a proper way of connecting their thoughts, opinions, actions to racism ? Do the victim's feelings and opinions count i.e if he feels he is being racially targeted, isn't that enough ? If the field is part of his workplace, and he no longer feels safe there, isn't that in itself a big problem ?

Frankly, I don't think he's a sook, I don't think he has an overactive imagination, and I don't think he was bothered about boing in general. He feels that something changed when he started taking more of a stand and becoming more outspoken on this issue, and I'm inclined to believe him. When you have McGuire making his King Kong comments, and you have people of Facebook making racist comments after his appearance in a David Jones campaign, you figure he has a point.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Mav – on
That’s the point. Only Carlton supporters booed him. Yet in Goodes’ case, we’re told that supporters from across the AFL turned on him over incidents that you’d imagine would only aggravate supporters from the opposition team. And there are plenty of examples of players who were repeat offenders in various ways who didn’t attract universal hate, e.g. Luke Hodge.

Greg Williams was booed by everyone.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #23 –
Paul, I’ve already covered that. If you join a mob when you know racists are driving it, you’re complicit in racism. It’s irrelevant if you’re motivated by something else. That racism was at the heart of this was always obvious.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Hodge deliberately tried to ram a young opponent into a point post to hurt him. And yet he’s popular enough to have a cushy gig as a Channel 7 commentator.
They'd have Goodes commentating by now as well but he knocked the offers back!

He's not been treated harshly by the industry, his standing apart is his choice, the vast bulk of the industry would stand besides him but he's chosen to distance himself. He has chosen a separatist path.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #25 –
That would have been interesting. If the crowd had started booing him while commentating, I’m sure that would only be because they remembered some occasion he took a dive.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Is all you have to do, LP, is to show that 1 person booed Like Hodge for you to equate that treatment with Goodes? Or is 100 enough? It’s sophistry to compare the responses which were clearly at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to intensity and spread across different clubs’ supporter bases.
I think you deny the behaviour of football fans in general to suit the political debate.

You comment like you've never been to a game. Tony Lockett, Crackers Keenan, Neil Blame, Wayne Johnston, Jim Buckley, Kevin Sheedy and any other number of eternal AFL villains say hello!

What started as a normal feature of AFL play, became much much worse because of Goodes actions and reactions not in spite of them.

Hodge was a hard man of AFL, but would he have even dared to deny his on field actions in the public media? A great part of the crowd's initial booing of Goodes was the crowd calling his on field behaviour bullcrap, long long before he made it about race!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #27 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Paul, I’ve already covered that. If you join a mob when you know racists are driving it, you’re complicit in racism. It’s irrelevant if you’re motivated by something else. That racism was at the heart of this was always obvious.

I must admit, my feelings on this were motivated mainly by history and mainly by the victim's statements and feelings. Clearly, AFL/VFL indigenous players have suffered abuse over the years, and if Goodes is telling us that this behaviour is affecting him adversely and it is racially based, I'd be happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. To be honest, I think booing in general is pretty lame.

But I'm curious to know your basis for believing that racism was always at the heart of all this ? Maybe a stupid question........

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #28 –
BS. In the pantheon of AFL bad boys, Goodes doesn’t rate at all. If lack of remorse or denial was enough to inspire universal condemnation, Dermie would have endured a wall of booing every second he was on field. Remember when he tried to claim he didn’t mean to stand on Raydan Tallis’ head (among other clear “alternative facts”)?

And the fact that Goodes made it clear he felt there was a racist component in the crowd behaviour definitely should have made the “good people” in the mob reflect on whether enough was enough. For it to inspire a IDGAF attitude was reprehensible.

One of the best opportunities to reflect was when the 14 year old girl taunted him with a banana. If any of you took a 14 year old relative to the ground and they did that to an indigenous player, how would you react? I would grab hom or her by the ear and drag them out of the ground in disgust. Instead, the grandmother who sat beside her railed against the way he poor grandaughter had been humiliated by Goodes’ response. The Apple didn’t fall far from the tree in that family. Instead of the mob accepting that Goodes was being racially abused, it reacted by amping up the booing because Goodes had humiliated a poor (white) girl, even though she wasn’t carrying an “I’m only 14” sign on her.

Gimme a break with this Goodes brought it on himself rubbish.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Mav – on
BS. In the pantheon of AFL bad boys, Goodes doesn’t rate at all. If lack of remorse or denial was enough to inspire universal condemnation, Dermie would have endured a wall of booing every second he was on field. Remember when he tried to claim he didn’t mean to stand on Raydan Tallis’ head (among other clear “alternative facts”)?

And the fact that Goodes made it clear he felt there was a racist component in the crowd behaviour definitely should have made the “good people” in the mob reflect on whether enough was enough. For it to inspire a IDGAF attitude was reprehensible.

One of the best opportunities to reflect was when the 14 year old girl taunted him with a banana. If any of you took a 14 year old relative to the ground and they did that to an indigenous player, how would you react? I would grab hom or her by the ear and drag them out of the ground in disgust. Instead, the grandmother who sat beside her railed against the way he poor grandaughter had been humiliated by Goodes’ response. The Apple didn’t fall far from the tree in that family. Instead of the mob accepting that Goodes was being racially abused, it reacted by amping up the booing because Goodes had humiliated a poor (white) girl, even though she wasn’t carrying an “I’m only 14” sign on her.

Gimme a break with this Goodes brought it on himself rubbish.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

The intergenerational image of the 14yo and gm actions, displayed the nuances of racism. In my experience this is a sample of what occurs in society as a whole. It takes generations to embed and will take generations to reconcile. We're making progress but must keep going until equality is achieved.

Every opportunity people have to understand the history of our traditional peoples is an opportunity to learn, grow, and change our attitudes and behavior.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.