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Topic: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 16251 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #75 –
Great win by the Blues. At the start of the second half Collingwood had Grundy, Adams, DeGoey and Pendlebury in the centre square against DeKonning, Walsh, Kennedy and Fisher. On average they were six years older than the Carlton players and we gave them a spanking. They are not going to get better and we are. First quarter and a half, Grundy was BOG, got crunched in a marking contest, and wasn't sited for the rest of the game. As talented a player Grundy is, he often fail to impose himself on games and can be quite passive. Collingwood is playing a lot of money for a player who is not going to carry them to a flag.
Dow, SPS, Kennedy, Fogarty, Stocker, Walsh, Fisher and Cuningham have all shown they are capable of being part of Carlton's next mosquito fleet. Setterfield and O'Brien are still on the runway. Kemp, Philps, Ramsay, Carroll and Durdin are still in development while Cottrell, Owies and Honey look like good late picks.
Collingwood's game style is high octane with players buzzing everywhere which is why they can only put one quarter together and why they are always looking to slow the game down. Because they have refused to draft key forwards under Buckley, and they want to use ruckmen as key forwards, they can't consistently drive long to the goal square. They always have to run the ball in and hit up leading players. Looks good when it works, but doesn't work often enough. Once Grundy got knocked down and stopped influencing the game, they were always going to struggle to keep kicking goals.
I was happy with our running game even when our handling errors cost us goals early. I was rapt in the effort of DeKonning and Jack in the ruck. They really got on top in the last quarter. Our backline is starting to play as a team rather than as individuals against their immediate opponent. Williams, DeKonning and Plowman al cost us goals with errors as did Newnes in the middle of the ground. In the end Collingwood only really earned five goals
Our forward line is starting to function as a group. Martin looks better as a marking target than a small forward. we still miss too many easy goals. Owies seems to have misplaced his goal kicking ability. He might just need a rest for a couple of weeks to freshen up his mind. I thought Silvagni's mark in the second amongst three tall Collingwood defenders was better than the mark he took in the last. I thought this would be Eddie's last year. I think Eddie should go on. With our mid-field function the way it has over the past few weeks, I think Cripps should play as a forward but play it like a mid-fielder/ leading forward and really run his opponent into the ground. This way he could always go into the centre if we really need him.
With potentially Cripps and Charlie to come in to the side in the next few weeks, and Honey, O'Brien, (I still have hope), Setterfield, Carrol and Kemp doing ok in the seconds, and maybe Murphy, McGovern, McDonald, Casboult and Pittonett being able to return, we might have a squad to take us into the finals if we happen to make it.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #76 –
Quote from: LP – on
Yep, it's not static opponent allocations like fans tend to believe players are told, it's more role based and Newman and Plowman are playing very similar roles and doing it well. But it inevitably leaves them in the hot seat from the time to time.

We will see more of this if Teague get's his way, he basically told the fans that is what he wanted the team to do, and when we do it well you can see it's got merit.

In my opinion it's no accident Teague has this game plan, he is a career AFL defender of significant quality, and he knows what worked and what didn't. He knows how to make the opposition uncomfortable because it is what made him uncomfortable, and Plowman and Newman are players very much cast in the mould of Teague.
Good point about Plowman and Teague and knowing what being a true defender is all about.....Newman was missed when he was injured, but is undersold in terms of value. Makes the odd mistake but is generally ok with ball in hand and stays reasonably close to his man. Unfortunately its hard to see how Docherty fits in that backline now IMO and even taking it further I thought we were better defensively around the ball with Cripps out of the Full Time midfield.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #77 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Good point about Plowman and Teague and knowing what being a true defender is all about.....Newman was missed when he was injured, but is undersold in terms of value. Makes the odd mistake but is generally ok with ball in hand and stays reasonably close to his man. Unfortunately its hard to see how Docherty fits in that backline now IMO and even taking it further I thought we were better defensively around the ball with Cripps out of the Full Time midfield.
In fairness to both playing injured isn't a fair measure, as it is not a fair measure to Williams in his midfield rotations. I suspect long term Doch will be back on the HBF, and guys like Williams and Stocker will get more mid and forward rotations.

We certainly need to strike a better balance for Cripps in the midfield, but he has to work on his F50 craft for that to be fair on others.

 I think guys like Setterfield, Cottrell and Gibbons might be the big losers in all this, at least in the short term. Cottrell I like, he has that edge we lack and compliments players like Stocker and Newman.

I think if the AFL extend the bench as rumoured it might play into our hands.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #78 –
Re H's 2nd goal... anyone else notice that after the H mark the teev cutaway to one of the boxes and there was SOS applauding... wonder if he was also applauding the little noticed terrific tap out from the centre by SOJ to Walsh, to H?
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #79 –
PS, ah to dream... when I saw SOS applauding in the box I thought for a moment it might have been the coach's box... how good would it be to have SOS involved in coaching... he would sure command respect and demand a level of commitment that would be bloody terrific. Might not thrill Liddle, but most highly successful organisations still have senior individuals who might not get on so well... no gem stone was ever created without time in the tumbler.

Director of football on the Board... now that'll get some of us here polarized and leaping about! Be a helluva lot better than Judd whose head was mostly elsewhere planning how to make more loot. SOS would at least be focussed with his heart in the job, not hesitating to call others to account and setting a high bar re club success - on field!!!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #80 –
Quote from: JonDorotich – on
Great win today, loved H, JSoS, Weitering, Williams, Saad, Eddie, Walsh, Dow, Stocker and Kennedy, but I’m sorry Plowman and Newnes have to go now

Yes they work hard, but they’re both average-poor players and you’d be very hard pressed to find any non-Carlton supporter say otherwise.

I’d be playing McGovern in Plowmans spot once the former is available and I’d also be replacing Newnes with one of Carroll, Honey or Kemp, as soon as one of them is ready.

With those regards replacements we’ll be better again.


Tend to agree. There are a few guys playing like they're just holding a spot rather than really going out there to help win. Not that Newnes or Plow were terrible. Just limited players who are just hanging in there.

Loved Kennedy's game in particular. Collingwood's midfield steamrolled us earlier in the year but he went toe to toe with them and was brilliant. Walsh likewise but that goes without saying.

Dekoning was an absolute liability in the first half but gee he stepped up the desperation and effort in the second half. Just wanted it more than Grundy on so many occasions. Worked his butt off also.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #81 –
Quote from: Blue Moon – on
With potentially Cripps and Charlie to come in to the side in the next few weeks, and Honey, O'Brien, (I still have hope), Setterfield, Carrol and Kemp doing ok in the seconds, and maybe Murphy, McGovern, McDonald, Casboult and Pittonett being able to return, we might have a squad to take us into the finals if we happen to make it.

I would love to see O'Brien in particular given a go in the post-Barker era. I still rate him. Guys that can run like him with disposal skills that good need to be given as many chances as possible.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #82 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
PS, ah to dream... when I saw SOS applauding in the box I thought for a moment it might have been the coach's box... how good would it be to have SOS involved in coaching... he would sure command respect and demand a level of commitment that would be bloody terrific. Might not thrill Liddle, but most highly successful organisations still have senior individuals who might not get on so well... no gem stone was ever created without time in the tumbler.

Director of football on the Board... now that'll get some of us here polarized and leaping about! Be a helluva lot better than Judd whose head was mostly elsewhere planning how to make more loot. SOS would at least be focussed with his heart in the job, not hesitating to call others to account and setting a high bar re club success - on field!!!

SOS to the board? That would be a dream appointment. If he nominated and it went to a members vote he'd win by a landslide!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #83 –
Quote from: jeza – on
I would love to see O'Brien in particular given a go in the post-Barker era. I still rate him. Guys that can run like him with disposal skills that good need to be given as many chances as possible.

I'd also like to see that, but I get the feeling his papers are stamped, or very close to it. Any opportunities will be tokenistic (in dead rubber matches) or forced (because of injury) IMO. 

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #84 –
Everyone talks about players having ‘to earn the respect of the playing group’.  Walsh did it in a nano second, Saad almost immediately and Williams is a work in progress.

Go back 12 months ago, and there were rumors all over the place re Stocker, his return home, place in the group and his commitment. Well based on the last month or so, I would say that he has earned the respect of not only the playing group, but also the Carlton faithful at large.

He’s only played SEVENTEEN games, but his commitment to the game and his team mates has been first class (arm around JSOS after the game says heaps)

In 2022, there will be lots of jumpers sold with 9, 18 and 30 on the backs, but watch out for the No. 13s. There will be heaps!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #85 –
Stocker has been steadily improving. The more comfortable he's feeling about his place in the team the better his kicking is getting. Would love to see him get a game in the midfield.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #86 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Director of football on the Board... now that'll get some of us here polarized and leaping about! Be a helluva lot better than Judd whose head was mostly elsewhere planning how to make more loot. SOS would at least be focussed with his heart in the job, not hesitating to call others to account and setting a high bar re club success - on field!!!

I reckon SOS would be brilliant in that role but Liddle would be screaming 'Conflict of interest!'

Seriously though, having a bloke with SOS's experience, steely determination, strength of conviction, and love for the club on the board would be just what we need to keep the focus on sustained on field success.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #87 –
Have said it before but JSOS has been seriously under-rated before. We missed him last year when he was injured and missed him every game this year he's been injured. If we had 22 players every week that crossed the line with that sort of intent and non-stop effort, we'd be a top 8 side for sure. That last 1/4 hanger and barrel to Harry was an iconic image. It was beautiful to see the emotion and support from team mates at the end.

And as others have said, Stocker gets better every week. Mihocek is not a small bloke but that hit was right up the middle...and fair...and flattened him. With 30 seconds to go he could've been forgiven for not going flat out at the contest but he didn't flinch.

Kennedy is one who I've thought has been hard done by in a way by match committee and hasn't been given as good a run at it as others but since he's come back into the side he's been terrific and seemed to relish the responsibility in recent weeks.

In a fair to middling season, wins over Collingwood and Essendon make it a lot brighter.

With 2 very winnable games coming up, hopefully the players can keep the intensity and effort up....we'll start favourites this week....and that scenario hasn't always been kind to us.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #88 –
Great win by the boys and I really didn't think we would. Have been scarred too many times before on a Sunday afternoon/night. It certainly was a team effort. Hard to find a player who was having a bad day. Even when we were behind we seemed to be playing quite well but just couldn't convert. Just finished watching the replay. Big summary as it is Collingwood. My thoughts;

Walsh - Well, there is no point. We all know. Will win the Brownlow. Yep, this year.
Kennedy - Hard to believe it took so long to get this bloke in the team when he was getting it done in the 2's. Has vindicated his selection 10 fold.
Dow - Should never have been dropped when he was (after that eye injury) and is gaining in confidence with each game. Goes hard at it and I think that impacts his output as he isn't that big and it may be taking a toll on his endurance. Really happy about how he's going. Another one that we here on this forum could see needed game time.
Saad / Williams - Think they are both playing under duress and we are getting a pretty good return under the circumstances. Both use the ball very effectively MOST times.
Curnow - Just flies under the radar and gets the job done week in, week out. I don't think I've ever seen Ed play a game and not get a kick (under enormous pressure) away just in the nick of time and in most cases with effect. I've said this before but he can play on for as long as he wants in my book.
De Koning - Better after half time. Was playing against one of the best so can cut him some slack and he's had a MASSIVE workload for a young skinny ruckman so kudos to the team for keeping him on the park. If he goes down we're cactus.
Weitering - Solid. Mihocek got away from him a couple of times, but he was our best back I thought.
Jones - Certainly his return gives us a lift and was also very solid, but I wish he could go through just one game without poleaxing one of his own teammates in a contest and do it to an opposition player.
Martin - Pretty happy with Jack's game. Certainly his best for many weeks. Seemed to be moving a bit better so maybe the knee is improving. Once he slots those easy 20 metre out goals I'll be convinced he's 100%
Cottrell - Also probably played his best game for a while and may have done enough to get a start next week.
Newnes - Like Saad and Williams, seemed to be playing under duress and did well enough I thought under the circumstances.
Williamson - Probably didn't play as well as the last couple of weeks but had a couple of really good moments and nearly kicked a smart goal. He stays
Fisher - Got time in the middle and even started the last quarter on the ball so I'm hoping the club sees him more as the on-baller rather than the small forward as I think this is his role moving forward.
Silvagni - Happy the kid did his nonno proud. Think he'll get another contract. Well he should anyway.
Petrevski-Seton - Not his best game but like Willo had a couple of cameo moments. Also one of two players on the day that received the worst 50 metre penalty call I've ever seen? The other was the Collingwood kid.
Betts - Did his usual stuff. Think we're all a little bit surprised by how well the old man is going. Does he get another year???
Plowman - Actually not as bad as I first thought. I'd had a few beers yesterday so he is the automatic target when the beer goggles take hold. Look there were a couple of mistakes, but all in all he was, like the rest of the backline, solid.
Newman - Pretty good. Nothing outstanding.
Owies - Probably the weakest link of the team. If Cripps comes back next week, someone has to make way and I think he may be the one. Has had a good run of it.
McKay - This may come as a surprise to most but I think Harry is the most important player in the team. Even ahead of Walsh. I'm not being flippant when I say gun midfielders are a dime a dozen, hell they are the ones who win the Brownlow every year, but to have a key position forward who can kick a bag of goals wins you premierships (with Dusty being the exception). He is a generational player and if we manage to get Charlie on the park and playing to his potential, God knows how far we'll go.
Stocker - Saved the best to last. Cult hero has arrived. Been a long time since we've had one like this bloke. Just does things like that shepherd, that send a shiver up and down your spine. Don't even care if he stuffs up anymore, he got me at hello. Can't wait for the days when he plays on the ball. There goes another shiver just thinking about.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #89 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I reckon SOS would be brilliant in that role but Liddle would be screaming 'Conflict of interest!'

Seriously though, having a bloke with SOS's experience, steely determination, strength of conviction, and love for the club on the board would be just what we need to keep the focus on sustained on field success.

I tried to hit multiple likes for your comment, David but our system wouldn't allow it  :)  So here's a 111 likes... yep, 3 no. 1s in a row! You'll know what that represents.

Seriously, I wonder if SOS has even considered this. I wonder if we (BlueBagger Members and supporters) lobbied for SOS to be the Director of Football on the Board he'd think about it. If it came to a vote from Members... landslide.

Ps. Don't care what Liddle would claim. This is heart, soul of the club stuff... not to mention deeply and thoroughly qualified.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17