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Topic: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia (Read 10671 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #15 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I disagree. Racism can and is way more subtle than overt xenophobia IMO.
Yes, but "them versus us" happens at many levels of society even within families, yet it can only be labelled racism when the very same is directed externally.

The behaviour is the same, the motivations are the same, it's the context that makes it racist, that in itself is problematic.

Greed, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Pride, Sloth, etc., etc., do not all equal racism via a change of context or perspective, I feel blaming everything we dislike on racism has become too easy.

Am I being unfair or petty?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Given GTC’s post was about racism towards indigenous Australians, I limited my response to that topic. If you can state your opinion on that topic concisely, please do it.

Therein lies the problem.

You cant eliminate racism to one group only.

Bigotry is bigotry.  The action is the problem.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #17 –
Saying we can’t act on 1 component of a larger problem is a great recipe for doing nothing.

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Saying we can’t act on 1 component of a larger problem is a great recipe for doing nothing.
Is that what I am advocating?  Or are you dismissing my point regarding bigotry and eliminating, because its too broad a brush?  Only one stating that we should do nothing about it is you.

You fat smelly, greasy wog.  Go back to where you came from.

What Box Hill?  I remember this conversation quite vividly.  Thats the brand of non racism I experienced.  This is largely a zero sum game, if you practise any form of racism, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #19 –
Indeed, but the way to address the problem is not to dilute concerns raised over the treatment of 1 group by demanding all evil be eliminated in one gigantic war against bigotry.

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #20 –
As The Doors sang, "People are strange".  That's permanent.

An episode that stayed with me .... filled up the car at the "supposed" wrong side of SFO over the golden gate.  White people weren't exactly seen in that area.  Did it, couldn't get the pump back into the bowser properly.  African American attendant came out, showed me the ropes, I said thanks mate ... he smiled and said "you all squared away brother"?  I said "yep".

"OK, be cool"  

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Indeed, but the way to address the problem is not to dilute concerns raised over the treatment of 1 group by demanding all evil be eliminated in one gigantic war against bigotry.
You want to discriminate against other sections of the community ie Greeks/Italians, Asians, Muslims etc etc by ignoring their problems then good luck trying to a get a complete buy in from the entire community. Every group will see themselves as a priority and you will get nowhere.
My wifes sister is married to a part first nations gentleman who is white, blue eyed and looks every bit of Anglo Saxo origin.
That didnt stop him during a workplace disagreement being called a "White Nigger" and when he complained to management he was told he wasnt black enough to take it further...

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #22 –
I’m certainly not advocating discriminating against any group but if the reaction to attempts to fight discrimination against 1 group is met with “What about X?”, there’ll never be progress on any front.

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Mav – on
I’m certainly not advocating discriminating against any group but if the reaction to attempts to fight discrimination against 1 group is met with “What about X?”, there’ll never be progress on any front.

Yes, I agree. There are degrees of racism, and there must be corresponding degrees of acknowledgment and recompense. There are major and significant differences between the way First Australians and European immigrants have been treated. I've never heard any indigenous person denying other races a voice, but their desire to be heard loud and strong is completely justified IMO.

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #24 –
Jewish people took an important lesson out of the Holocaust. Rather than just fighting anti-Semitism, they realised they needed to be allies to discriminated groups. In the Civil Rights unrest in the US in the 60s, Jewish lawyers with the ACLU were prominent supporters of black Americans’ fight for equality. Groups who have experienced discrimination in the past would do well to emulate that approach rather than bitch about past grievances. Unfortunately, the opposite tendency seems to be apparent: I got through the bigotry without much help, so now you should do the hard yards too.

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Jewish people took an important lesson out of the Holocaust. Rather than just fighting anti-Semitism, they realised they needed to be allies to discriminated groups. In the Civil Rights unrest in the US in the 60s, Jewish lawyers with the ACLU were prominent supporters of black Americans’ fight for equality. Groups who have experienced discrimination in the past would do well to emulate that approach rather than bitch about past grievances. Unfortunately, the opposite tendency seems to be apparent: I got through the bigotry without much help, so now you should do the hard yards too.

The politics of resentment is very strong unfortunately, manifesting itself as grievances against others' supposed preferential treatment to which they themselves have been denied.

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #26 –
Maybe that support was temporarily forgotten in the case of Yankel Rosenbaum?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #27 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Yes, I agree. There are degrees of racism, and there must be corresponding degrees of acknowledgment and recompense. There are major and significant differences between the way First Australians and European immigrants have been treated. I've never heard any indigenous person denying other races a voice, but their desire to be heard loud and strong is completely justified IMO.

Why recompense?  Justify why the innocent must pay for something they never did!!

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #28 –
That highlights how laudable the helping hand extended by the Jewish community was. There is tension between the Jewish community and the black community, especially black Muslims. The lesson should be that we should be allies of those experiencing discrimination even if they are in some ways our enemies. If minorities only support those who share common interests with them, they might find they have little support when it’s their turn in the barrel.

Niemöller’s words are inscribed in the Holocaust Museum:
Quote
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Re: Eddie's Fight Against Racism in Australia

Reply #29 –
Quote from: LP – on
So then does that mean an act of racism fundamentally an act of hypocrisy?

Why?

It means if you don't see people in a different light, you can't attack them for being different (and vice versa).
If we see people as humans, rather than asians, africans, collingwood supporters (jokes, we know they're not human ;)) then there will be no prejudice and racism.