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Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #30 –
Looks like tentative moves being made towards possibly opening negotiations. Let's hope so.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Do we really think Putin (or anyone else for that matter) is insane enough to go Nuclear? I personally don't think anyone is, perhaps I'm just naïve.
KJs sister is a lunatic and I reckon Putin and his mate who he handed power too when he was indisposed are also crazy enough.Any peace with Putin will come at a price imho...

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Zelensky was in Kherson today...
You would think if Russian intelligence was any good it would have been the perfect time for a strike, (not necesarily nuclear)
It's all a bit bizarre.
I tend to think that countries like Russia and China whilst populous aren't that smart. Lots of huff and puff and intimidation but...
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #33 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
KJs sister is a lunatic and I reckon Putin and his mate who he handed power too when he was indisposed are also crazy enough.Any peace with Putin will come at a price imho...
Putin is gonski on the world stage whether he pulls a nuke out or not. I still dont reckon that anyone on the planet in 2022 or beyond has the balls to go nuclear. IMO If anyone did, they would be obliterated from the map by the Worlds retaliation and everyone (insane or not) knows it.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #34 –
Putin’s absence from the G20 meeting is interesting, and it has nothing to do with Abbott finally making good on his threat to shirtfront Putin.

Putin is concerned about humiliation on the international stage, a coup while he’s out of the country, and/or assassination.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #35 –
S-300 missiles have caused deaths in Poland.  Both Russia and Ukraine use S-300 surface to air missiles; Russia’s missile shortage and low air defence requirements mean that they are using S-300 missiles in a surface to surface role. Ukraine uses them against Russian cruise missiles. At this stage, it’s not known whether the missiles that struck Poland were Russian or Ukrainian.  Either way, Poland is on full alert and is consulting with its NATO allies.

This may be a wayward missile or it may be a deliberate strike.  Putin has continually warned that he can expand the conflict in response to the West’s support for Ukraine.  This could be the first shot in an expanded conflict.

Let’s hope not!
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #36 –
Stuff up by Ukraine apparently.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #37 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Stuff up by Ukraine apparently.
I believe Ukraine also fired a missile by accident into Romania early on in the war and Romanian jets were scrambled but failed to get off the ground in time and the missile luckily hit nothing but travelled a fair way.
NATO were not that impressed with the lack lustre Romanian response.

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #38 –
I understand that the missile’s trajectory indicates that it wasn’t fired from Russia.  In that case, it was fired by Ukraine or by Russian occupying forces.

I wonder if the potential strike zone of a surface to air missile that misses its target is factored in as part of the firing solution.  I suspect not, given the ability of SAMs to follow the target’s changes of course.  It’s probably very fortunate that there haven’t been more casualties in neighbouring countries.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #39 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I understand that the missile’s trajectory indicates that it wasn’t fired from Russia.  In that case, it was fired by Ukraine or by Russian occupying forces.

I wonder if the potential strike zone of a surface to air missile that misses its target is factored in as part of the firing solution.  I suspect not, given the ability of SAMs to follow the target’s changes of course.  It’s probably very fortunate that there haven’t been more casualties in neighbouring countries.
They have to be modified to hit ground targets, I believe they self-destruct in air after missing a target.
 
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #40 –
Quote from: LP – on
They have to be modified to hit ground targets, I believe they self-destruct in air after missing a target.

The S-300 and S-400 missile systems have a secondary ground attack function.  It’s just a matter of entering the target’s co-ordinates into the guidance system.

Apparently there have been many ground impacts from SAMs that missed airborne targets.  Some self-destructed just before ground impact, some rained 2,000kg of debris after self-destructing at altitude and others just fell to earth.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #41 –
Why the media can never fully be trusted (particularly in the context of propaganda and its use to sway the masses across history).

Day before yesterday it was talks of peace process and de-escalation.

Next minute, its missile strikes, wayward rockets hitting targets in Poland on the other side of the country from where the fight was reportedly being waged (and advanced) by Ukrainian forces in Kherson, 1000 kilometres away. 

On the flipside, we have a Ukrainian UAV bombing an oil tank near Moscow which is the Ukraine taking the fight to Moscow reportedly.

I have no vested interest, just observing, and hoping that not too many lives are lost, because ultimately, there are innocent people being killed on both sides of these battles, not to mention the resources that could be better used elsewhere.  Would be nice to be able to believe the reports. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #42 –
^^
As Hiram W Johnson is reported to have said in 1917, "The first casualty when war comes is truth".
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #43 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The S-300 and S-400 missile systems have a secondary ground attack function.  It’s just a matter of entering the target’s co-ordinates into the guidance system.

Apparently there have been many ground impacts from SAMs that missed airborne targets.  Some self-destructed just before ground impact, some rained 2,000kg of debris after self-destructing at altitude and others just fell to earth.
It is the case that S-300 can be converted, but it's not an inflight scenario for the S-300 they are configured before launch.

I think it's media speculation about the S-300 with the most commonly used ancient variant only having an SAM range of about 30km, there are other long range variants but they are not the commonly built Russian S-300.

As I understand it sometime back the Ukraine started using NATO supplied munitions, having already exhausted it's Russian built stockpile. It's possible Greece or other NATO Allies have supplied Ukraine with Russian S-300s.

I suspect there is a bit of blame shifting going on, the general public have very little chance of knowing the truth, it's all global politics. It may well be this latest event is a false flag operation designed to drag the Ukraine neighbours into the conflict, or it might be painted as false flag to prevent the public from calling for NATO action against Russia having been provoked by Russia.

I will assert the following, the military unequivocally know the answers to these questions, I doubt you could fire a BB in that area without NATO knowing who pulled the trigger, when, where and at whom, and these missile are metres long and weigh tonnes and have no stealth coating! At night they light up like a Roman Candle, in daylight hours they leave a smoke trail that is about as subtle as a fart in a submarine, and that is without considering all the advanced surveillance hardware that is on the ground around Ukraine borders. But how would we know?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #44 –
The collective West is pretty much confirming  that this was a stray S300 missile fired as part of an air defence operation from Ukraine. Ukraine continues to blame the Russians.
Reality always wins in the end.