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Topic: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda (Read 31389 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #120 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Kemp doesn't lack aggression, Spotted One.
Yes I understand, yet there something holding him back, he has everything including the tricks needed for AFL, but he has become a puzzle.

While fans bitch and moan about Setterfield, Stocker and Plowman, I suspect Kemp or Dow might well become our next Mitch Robinson. Like Dow we've had Kemp so so long and made so little progress.

I'd assert it's this continued apparent lack of player development that holds our club back, not the draft, not the list management. We've tried lot's of combinations of coaches and specialists, and to date nothing has reliably worked, there must be a reason why, I had hoped Cook and Power might be the cure, but I'm losing confidence, all I can give them now is time!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #121 –
Kemp played his best footy as an intercept defender at U18 level.
But we have been forced to find an easy position for McGovern as he failed as a forward and then keep going back to Plowman when McGovern cycles through injuries so Kemp never gets to play his preferred role.
The odd times he has played is when we have been down on numbers and we have done an Andrew Walker on him and matched him up on a gorilla KP forward and watched him struggle.
That's development Carlton style for some players...Plowman needs to be in the twos as backup only and Kemp in the ones and given a series of games.


Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #122 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Kemp played his best footy as an intercept defender at U18 level.
But we have been forced to find an easy position for McGovern as he failed as a forward and then keep going back to Plowman when McGovern cycles through injuries so Kemp never gets to play his preferred role.
The odd times he has played is when we have been down on numbers and we have done an Andrew Walker on him and matched him up on a gorilla KP forward and watched him struggle.
That's development Carlton style for some players...Plowman needs to be in the twos as backup only and Kemp in the ones and given a series of games.



Agree 100% - Plowman's not going to get any better, while Kemp may well be an untapped star.  There's only one way to find out.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #123 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Kemp played his best footy as an intercept defender at U18 level.
Kemp didn't gather the high draft pick attention until his last season at TAC Cup level, just before he was injured. He was moved into the midfield and dominated, before he was drafted off the back of those few stand out games he was being talked about like he could be the next Kouta, Kouta also transitioned to the midfield from the wing/flanks.

Kemp didn't get to be a high draft pick by being a vanilla HBF.

I suspect part of the reason we've constrained him to the HBF is a fear that he'll do a knee again if he is forced into positions that require lots of twisting and turning. But opposition are going to construct that scenario for him wherever he plays, if he can't be durable in the midfield we better find out now! He's playing a role in the VFL that won't exist in AFL.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #124 –
Quote from: LP – on
Kemp didn't gather the high draft pick attention until his last season at TAC Cup level, just before he was injured. He was moved into the midfield and dominated, before he was drafted off the back of those few stand out games he was being talked about like he could be the next Kouta, Kouta also transitioned to the midfield from the wing/flanks.

Kemp didn't get to be a high draft pick by being a vanilla HBF.
Kemp wasnt vanilla as a half back he was a Jeremy Howe, Peter Motley type player who took a lot of brave marks and provided rebound.
Yep he played on the wing, midfield and was switched down forward when the team wanted a lift but I felt he was better suited down back and the Carlton coaching staff have also preferred him down back too.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #125 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Yep he played on the wing, midfield and was switched down forward when the team wanted a lift but I felt he was better suited down back and the Carlton coaching staff have also preferred him down back too.
I've mentioned why I think that is the case, they are trying to build him not break him, but I think he could easily fill that big bodied sweeper role that we lack.

Someone who can be a handful for the Hugh Greenwood types we play against, they get it too easy against Cripps because Crippa can't escape them and also they can run off Cripps the other way, they won't be able to do that with Kemp.

I appreciate the scenario changes if Cripps, Kennedy, Cerra, Hewett, Walsh and the rucks are up and about, but they aren't all in a good form at the moment, and it's basically been Cripps and Doc holding the midfield together.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #126 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Funny thing is I think we have the midfield depth - I think our midfield is far better - they just havent been playing well. Our midfield is all over the shop.
Is it set up, is it form, is it instruction, are we one trick pony's in the middle and opposition has figured us out and don't have a plan B? - time will tell but they need to start improving and get back to how they were playing last year.
If we have to keep shifting midfielders to defence and SOS to the ruck, we wont win many of those games.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #127 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
When we start making excuses for blokes and the club, K, we're in trouble. The Aints have some key personnel missing yet are sitting on top of the ladder. And you can bet they've got some blokes playing sore... as has every club.

Re JSOS. Some of us have removed the rose coloured glasses. His form this year has been spasmodic. Some of his turnovers have been howlers, handing back the aggot to the opposition. He's not holding his marks and foot disposal has been not to his usual standard. It may well be that his ideal position on the field has yet to be found. Midfielder? Defender?
I love SOS, he gives his all and leaves nothing out there, but he, like Fisher, is simply not doing enough and I think their opportunities will dry up. They need to go back to the 2s and dominate games there.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #128 –
Tend to agree GTC. I know Dow is a whipping boy but he's been in form in the VFL and if there's one thing we seem to be missing in the midfield at the moment, it's some pace. This week might be a chance for him. Same with JSOS and Fisher....maybe time for the likes of Kemp, Dow, Cincotta to get a shot....obviously injuries will determine who goes out and who comes in. Would be nice to get McGovern back for this week and retain Pittonet and Saad.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #129 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
If we have to shifting midfielders to defence and SOS to the ruck, we wont win many of those games.
We can't be inventing roles just to give our favourites a run, they have to win and maintain their spot based on form.

PS: There is a big difference between having a bad week and being out of form, when the struggle is sustained it's time to review.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #130 –
Form is fickle.  You can turn that around quickly, and go from chocolates to boiled lollies and vice versa very quickly.

Class is permanent though.  A good player who isnt playing well, is two disposals away from hitting form and changing a game.

This is where it gets tricky.  Do you persist with underperforming class or in form also rans?

So, do you promote a Nick Duigan who puts in a 4 goal quarter game changing performance?  Or do you play a Kouta circa 1997 and hope he turns the corner?

Difficult question to answer, and I think you pick your times.  Challenge a player against a difficult opponent and even if they dont meet their potential, they absolve themselves of having played against a red hot opponent if they dont work.  The good players need an easy kill to turn it around IMHO, whilst the ones that have shown ability but lack confidence are better off getting a crack against a classy opponent so even if they arent dominant, they can put in a respectable day at the office.

Thats why im an advocate of Dow, and Kemp getting games now that we as a team aren't playing well.  Fogarty for mine is a bit papers stamped but may as well give him a go and see how he goes, but you need to respect team balance else we just make it harder for everyone.

The likes of Carroll who just turned 20 in December and Honey who is turning 22 in October need to build form and fitness and wont transform team form.  You play them on the periphery and hope they can contribute, rather than turn the team around when they aren't playing well.  They just make it harder for the mainstays as they will vary in output.  If we have a host of injuries, then you can pin your hopes to them, but their form is much more likely to be inconsistent minute to minute and ergo cost you game than anyone else, so you only play these types in place of mature performers if they are breaking down and not capable of performing adequately because those types will give you a quarter or two that will change the game. 

This is where the likes of Fog, Dow, Kemp, Cincotta (I know, he's new but he's on borrowed time) must step up and give us something to challenge the mature agers.  Mirkov can get a taste of it too vs a more mature opponent.  Just throw that big frame around and be a pest please, and if it doesnt work, we can park him at full forward and drop it on his head.  Might draw some frees, or give Harry and Charlie a better run at the footy but dont get in their way.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #131 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Kemp doesn't lack aggression, Spotted One.

And he’s never played in the midfield … not that we need more midfielders.

Kemp could play the McGovern role to perfection … and he’s unlikely to get a calf twinge or back spasm.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #132 –
Kemp should be given a game, what do we have to lose by doing so ??

He's a good size and has some good skills, he's not going to get any better languishing in the seconds.

Given we just got spanked, there has to be 4-6 changes to send a mesage to every player at the club that losses like that will not be tolerated.

Plowman, Honey, Fisher need to be dropped with Pittonet to miss through injury.

Cincotta, Kemp, Binns & Mirkov to come in.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #133 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Kemp should be given a game, what do we have to lose by doing so ??

He's a good size and has some good skills, he's not going to get any better languishing in the seconds.

Given we just got spanked, there has to be 4-6 changes to send a mesage to every player at the club that losses like that will not be tolerated.

Plowman, Honey, Fisher need to be dropped with Pittonet to miss through injury.

Cincotta, Kemp, Binns & Mirkov to come in.

I think we need to go back to a seven man defensive rotation that doesn’t involve midfielders; that would be Weitering, Young, Newman, Cowan, Kemp, Cincotta and Saad (if fit).
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #134 –
Looks like Cottrell is back in the mix, he could be a big help to add a bit of both ways running, I doubt given his aerobic history that another week makes much difference.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"